Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Speaking With G_d

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,791

    Speaking With G_d

    For Brenda (so she can stop stalking)

    Prayer: Why you’re just talking to yourself.

    Posted on June 19, 2013 by atheistmel


    One thing I regret since becoming active on twitter is that I didn’t keep track of the number of theists who have, usually after losing an argument, told me they would pray for me. Surely by now the number must be well into the hundreds. As I often point out to them, after all of these prayers- I’m still an atheist. So, either they’re praying for me to remain an atheist, or maybe, just maybe, prayer doesn’t work.

    But let’s consider prayer for a moment. Why do Christians pray? When I was a Christian, I prayed for 3 reasons.
    1) To thank God for something
    2) To beg forgiveness for looking at a hot guy and allowing my raging teenaged hormones to plant dirty thoughts in my mind (or some other similarly ridiculous “sin”)
    3) To ask for something

    Typically, I only did #1 and #2 so I sounded like less of a dick when I asked for everything I wanted in #3. Now, I was never delusional enough to truly believe God was speaking back to me. In fact, this was one of the more frustrating things about my time as a Christian. I spent all that time praying and always got the feeling I was talking to myself. Which, of course, I was- but to a Christian who believed God was speaking to every OTHER Christian, but not to you, this was rather distressing.

    Essentially, what we think about prayer is that God is able to hear you, either with actual words or telepathically as you “think” at him… but instead of responding directly, you need to interpret him through vague feelings intermixed with your own thoughts? Why does God not actually SPEAK back to us? Surely hearing a loud, booming voice actually answering your questions would lead to a lot less confusion about what God actually wants us to do. But, no, apparently your all powerful God prefers to leave his plan for your life, his instructions for you, and his answers to your concerns, up to your own vague interpretation. How does this make any sense whatsoever? Your God has some absolutely terrible ideas for an all-knowing, all-powerful being!

    Christians will often tell me that they pray because they have a “relationship” with God, and like their other relationships, it needs to be nourished and sustained through this sort of interaction. I refrain from pointing out that their ACTUAL relationships are probably suffering because they waste so much time speaking to their invisible friend… but I digress. When I consider a “relationship” with God, a few things come to mind. The first is to be terribly embarrassed that any human could think that, if there WERE an all-powerful creator of the universe, that he would give a shit if you talk to him or not. It’s truly the height of arrogance for the religious to believe that God, who has created everything in the universe, and the universe itself, would be offended that YOU don’t want to talk to him. Or, that if such a being existed, he’d be at all interested in hearing how you really need a new car, or that you want me to become a Christian. The second is to wonder how exactly you consider it a “relationship” with God if you do all the talking and never get a concrete response? It’s a bit like my relationship with Ian Somerhalder. No matter how often I ask him to marry me, he just carries on ignoring me. Hardly a real “relationship”, as it is with Christians and their God. If any Christian tells you they have literally heard the voice of God, they are either lying to you, or require an immediate mental health intervention before this voice tells them to burn things.

    Now, when considering the 3rd reason people pray, ie, “asking God for something”, there simply can be no debate. This is one of the most ridiculous concepts in all of Christianity, which is saying something considering this is the religion of virgin births and resurrections. Let’s consider for a moment what this really means in the context of what we “know” about God. For example, let’s say you’re asking God to help cure a loved one with cancer. From what we know of God, he is “all-knowing”. It was hammered into me again and again and AGAIN at bible camp that “God knows my heart”. So, of course, an all knowing God would already know exactly what you want and what you need- all of the deepest desires of your heart. So why ask him? Is God in Heaven right now, watching your loved one suffering with cancer, all the while knowing how much you’d like them to be cured, but just waiting for you to ASK him to help out? That’s a pretty douchey move by your all-loving God. If you believe that God sometimes DOES answer these prayers, that’s a whole different kind of beast. Whatever happened to God’s perfect plan? Not to worry about your life because God has a plan and we’re all a part of it? Are we REALLY so egotistical to think not only that we have a relationship with our all-knowing, all-loving creator, but that we can change his mind, and have him alter his “perfect plan”, simply by requesting it? This level of delusion is bordering on true insanity. It also brings up an even larger issue surrounding how God could possibly intervene in some cases, such as to cure your friend’s cancer, and not in other cases, such as to regrow an amputated limb, prevent children being raped, or to feed the hungry.

    For the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone can truly consider these things and still come to the conclusion that prayer is a useful exercise. This is what religion does to people- it takes every logical, rational thought you may possess and poisons it to the point that you no longer question anything you’re told. It honestly makes me sad that so many people are trapped in this ridiculous delusion. I’d love to sum this up with some sort of clever tag line, but I’ll never be able to do so better than The Onion has.

    oniongodanswersprayers
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-13-2016 at 08:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,791
    Prayer can work by making the individual focus as well as attuning forces of nature and the thought of others even at-a-distance. Decrees are far more than mere prayer - for me at least.

    And some scientists say action-at-a-distance (In reference to Einstein's use of the word.) is 10,000 times faster-than-light.
    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...ter-than-light
    Last edited by R_Baird; 06-01-2015 at 03:58 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,791
    Persinger has used these researches to send thought patterns into the minds of people for testing what is now shown to be forthcoming on Futurescape. You can browse to find an article I wrote about a partner of mine a decade ago under the heading Mind Machine Interfacing which I have detailed on neuroscience forums including AI researchers.

    http://www.innerworlds.50megs.com/Go...god_helmet.htm

    This is an approach now being used as well.

    There are people who have a hard time communicating through ESP and they have often been told it is not possible. Some of them are told it is evil or witchcraft and get it beaten out of them - even to this day!

    Is ESP an important point to be proven if we are to see ancient humans in a different light. Many humans had no speech lobes including Neanderthals who developed speech lobes through intermarriage around 150,000 years ago (despite what some journalists say who don't do research and accept whatever a distinguished group says as Gospel).

    Not that I regard a word transmission as important as a thought which words often cannot express.

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innova...ach-180952868/
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-25-2015 at 09:26 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,791
    It also isn't just secrets that need to be considered. Throughout time there have been access to information issues such as do people actually read or care to learn after having the joy of learning drummed out of them by churches or parents who know so little about things themselves. Here is Bertrand Russell talking about Mass Psychology which includes religious seers pontificating and being listened to by the great unwashed.

    “I think the subject which will be of most importance politically is Mass Psychology... Its importance has been enormously increased by the growth of modern methods of propaganda. Although this science will be diligently studied, it will be rigidly confined to the governing class. The populace will not be allowed to know how its convictions are generated.”
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-13-2016 at 08:15 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,791
    FAITH THAT MOVES MOUNTAINS:

    The Way of the Peaceful Warrior is a great book that would allow people to see how they can cause change. It is written by Dan Millman who brings us the following from another of his books that are all worth contemplation.

    "On an otherwise ordinary day, an angel appeared to a young merchant and former camel herder, known by all in the city where he was born. The angel's words filled him with awe and dread--it told him that he was to defy his people's ancestral religion, to denounce 360 deities carved in stone and worshipped for centuries, to declare himself the prophet of a single God, to abolish a way of life upon which countless lives and beliefs were founded--and establish a new religion out of nothing. Surely, he would be met with incredulity, rejection, violent persecution, and exile. Could his seemingly mad quest bring anything but failure--or at best, a martyr's death?

    Or would this mortal, obedient to the divine command of an angel, achieve a victory beyond any that reason could have foretold?

    He was born in Mecca in A.D. 570. His father died before his birth. His devastated mother, unable to nurse him, named Muhammad and gave him to a nursemaid--a shepherdess in a band of Bedouins. Muhammad spent his first five years with these nomads, living a hardy open-air existence following the grazing flocks through desert grass and scrub, sleeping in tents beneath a vast desert sky. Once weaned, he drank camel's milk and ate mostly rice, dates, wild birds, and locusts fried in oil. From the beginning, the desert claimed Muhammad as its own. He would always be a Bedouin at heart.

    At age six, he returned to his mother, but she died later that year. He ended up living with an uncle, a caravan merchant. In the years that followed, Muhammad traveled throughout Arabia with his uncle's caravans, learning the wisdom of the desert, the ways of business, and the art of war as they fought off bands of marauders. His travels took him into close contact with various tribes and religions--Judaism, Christianity, and the Arab sects who worshipped hundreds of gods and goddesses in the form of stone idols. These experiences made a deep impression on this thoughtful, introspective youth. From these early threads, the tapestry of his fate was woven.

    He grew into a handsome young man admired for his strong character, moral integrity, and sharp mind. But he had come to a merchant's life more by chance than choice. Disinterested in money and drawn to solitude, he left the caravan to work as a shepherd in the desert for months at a time.



    When he was 25, Muhammad took a position in a trading company owned by a beautiful woman 15 years his senior. Her name was Khadija. For two years, he led Khadija's caravans throughout Arabia, rising to the position of company manager. Not surprisingly, Khadija fell in love with him. Finally, she proposed to him through an intermediary. Their marriage, which blessed them with six daughters, would last until Khadija's death 21 years later.

    But almost as soon as the wedding ceremony had ended, Muhammad's mind again turned inward. His encounters with so many cultures and religions had planted hidden seeds within him that began to grow. He found himself pondering how the 360 stone gods in the temple of Mecca could save souls. Such questions drew him to once again search his own soul in the solitude of the desert.

    Muhammad began spending his days in a cave in the hills outside Mecca, fasting, praying, and meditating. Sleeping little, he began to enter altered states {Seems a man away from a woman having visions who is a shepherd and poor person, might have begun to prove appealing in the literary tradition.} and have waking visions--to experience the inner life of a mystic. At times, violent trembling seized him and he lost consciousness. A practical man of robust health who had endured many grueling journeys across the desert, he found these phenomena strange and disturbing. But these inner quakes {Buddha's story includes lots of this kind of thing. What would happen to them today?} that he feared might be the harbingers of failing health were actually the premonitory tremors of a great awakening.

    One night in the holy month of Ramadan in his 40th year, while fasting and praying in his desert cave, Muhammad heard a voice calling him with great urgency. Looking up in the darkness of his cave, he saw an angel standing before him, emanating a dazzling light. Muhammad fainted with fear, when he awoke, he found the angel still standing there.

    'Read, thou,' the angel commanded him in a voice of stern authority.

    'I cannot,' Muhammad stammered, for he could barely read.

    'Read, thou,' the angel commanded him again in verse, 'in the name of the Lord who created all things, who created man from a clot. Read in the name of the Most High who taught man the use of the pen and taught him what before he knew not.'

    In awe, Muhammad repeated these words, memorizing each one. Then the angel said, 'Muhammad, thou art the messenger of Allah and I am his angel, Gabriel.'

    With that, the angel vanished.

    In stunned exaltation, Muhammad went and told Khadija what had happened. She embraced him and unequivocally expressed her faith in his vision and his mission, saying, 'Rejoice, dear husband. He who holds in His hands the life of Khadija is my witness that thou wilt be the messenger of His people.'

    But Muhammad could not accept his own vision. How could he, an ordinary man so far from perfection, be such a messenger? He feared that he might be deluded or perhaps insane. Days passed. He waited for another sign, for further confirmation so that he might believe in himself and know how to proceed. But no sign came.

    At last, he returned to the cave on Mount Hira, seeking the angel Gabriel. He waited and prayed, but to no avail. In despair, haunted by terrible doubts and assailed by fears of madness, Muhammad climbed onto a precipice and prepared to leap to his death. At that very moment, the angel appeared before him again and, raising his hands, repeated, 'I am Gabriel, and thou art Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah.' Muhammad froze on the edge of the chasm in a spellbound trance. Hours passed. That night one of Khadija's servants came and found Muhammad still perched on a crag, lost in ecstasy, and led him home.

    After that event, Muhammad began to quietly spread the revelation of his new faith among only a few close friends and family members. But in this tightly knit culture, word spread quickly. Before long, his persecution began--gossip, brutal beatings, plots against him, and attempts against his life. Over time, his honesty and virtue, the words of scripture revealed through him, and the mysterious workings of fate brought about the conversions of several of Mecca's greatest warriors. All this greatly strengthened the fledgling faith of Islam and drove fear into the hearts of its enemies.

    People demanded that he perform miracles as proof of his divine mission. Muhammad answered that he had not come to perform miracles; he had come to preach the word of Allah. Challenged to move a mountain, he gazed toward it but it did not budge, so he spoke the now-famous words demonstrating his wisdom, humor, and humility: 'If the mountain will not come to Muhammad, then Muhammad will go to the mountain.'

    From beginning to end, Muhammad acknowledged himself as an ordinary man, full of faults and limitations--a man chosen by God, for reasons he did not understand, to deliver a new revelation of Islam, which means 'submission to God.' Islam required faith in God, charity, purity, and a life free of idols, lived with the courage of a warrior in battle, with prayer as a cleansing immersion in His spirit.

    The citizens of Mecca were roused to fury by Muhammad's attack on their cherished idols--and by his declaration that there was but one God, named Allah, and that he, Muhammad, was His prophet. Forced to flee across the desert to the city of Medina, he began his mission anew, once again a lonely prophet with a handful of followers in a city of unbelievers.

    Over time, the angel Gabriel revealed scripture to Muhammad, which he recited aloud and which Khadija and others wrote down. This scripture became known as the Holy Koran (Quran). The Koran was Muhammad's defining miracle--the writing of this masterpiece of poetic religious scripture by a simple, semiliterate man might in itself have earned him fame as a prophet. But this feat was only one chapter in the life of Muhammad.

    Persecuted as a heretic for nearly two decades by the people of Mecca {How was Khadija still alive if he spent almost two decades there? The math doesn't work, but perhaps the semiliterate don't worry.}, including many of his own relatives and former friends, the once young Bedouin became in old age a fearless military general. More than once, Mecca's army laid siege, seeking to destroy Medina, where Muhammad and his followers lived--their war would not end until Muhammad or Mecca fell. In the final battle, while outnumbered three to one, but filled with the power of Allah, Muhammad and his followers descended like a storm upon the Meccan army and destroyed it. This battle turned the tide." (1)

    The people who ridicule the legends of Indians and natives aren't funny and it isn't right for me to do it either. Still it seems a poor role model to win followers by the sword of Allah or Yahweh (Yahu) or Shiva. We are all paying the price these story-tellers have wrought since the day of Caliph Omar and Constantine who took the fledgling new beliefs and built empires under their spell of ignorance. Omar commanded one of the raids to destroy the great library at Alexandria that housed all knowledge; we need to really know about our roots. Islam has much good and is less intolerant than other Ur Story based religions.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-13-2016 at 08:20 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,791
    A good Christian will ultimately tell you after hours of conversation during which they tried to use reason and said they had facts; that only through spiritual acceptance or faith can you understand and BE one with God. The words vary little but the meaning is always - I know and you do not. Of course if you do this dance a few times you smile and let the person know you were just jerking their chain all along. Then you sometimes get a glimpse of what a good Christian really is.

    "Moving on. Anselm's (Bishop of Canterbury;1033-1109A.D.) epistemological maxim "credo ut intelligam" was adopted from Augustine's (Bishop of Hippo; 354-430 A.D.) slogan, "I believe in order that I might understand," (crede, ut intelligas). For Anselm, faith precedes sound reasoning in matters divine. This undoubtedly inheres with biblical precedent for, "...no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God," and again, "The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are spiritually discerned," (I Cor. 2:11,14; cf. I Cor. 2:11-13, John 3:2-6, 12, 6:45, 60-65). One cannot and will not truly apprehend divine truth/s without the antecedent work of God viz a viz regeneration. Such truths will fall on deaf ears thus being rendered ineffectual and spiritually void."

    http://credoutintelligan.blogspot.ca...o-further.html

    Of course, I am not wrong to think each person who proselytizes is doing so due to their ego needs; and the long term Roman Empire-building agenda which brainwashed them by "appeals to base human urges" (Il Principe)

    http://www.religion-religions.com/ht...n=Christianity

    Alan Kazlev takes us into an interesting philosophical debate which sets Aurobindian New Age thought against effective or pragmatic moral possibilities which I think exist in Jung's collective unconscious. I think he would agree people chose to selectively apply any and all possibilities for personal gain and reasons not at all moral. We both seem to recognize the effort required for real discipline or esoteric insight is more than most people can endure. I think people have been conditioned against thinking by schooling which never addressed compelling personal or purposeful potentials.

    "But just because a theory or explanation is popular doesn't mean it is correct. . An explanation may be popular not because it accurately maps reality, but because it is provides simplistic answers; junk food for the "soul" (i.e. For the aspiring part of the affective and mental being) right. Take for example, the belief in a supernatural deity tacked on to the secular-material understanding of the cosmos, and justified via exoteric religious scriptures and a lack of insight into science (sect 1-x). This is certainly popular, but it is popular because it does not require one to think outside the box. It simply takes two common and very traditional consensus viewpoints in western society (scientism-based physicalism and Judaeo-Christian religionism) and mashes them together without bothering to consider the real meaning or implications for either tradition."

    http://www.integralworld.net/kazlev8.html

    This site (W-M) is rife with theories of alien intervention borne from the lies of religious interpreters whose power was (and is) enhanced by myths of aliens. We do not have to wonder how it was that stupid humans bought such trash long ago - we have evidence galore right here.

    http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/1...aliens-period/

    But if you need evidence that your religion believes in talking with boogeymen here is one who wants a second coming or Armageddon and all that crap.

    Rabbi Moshe Teitelbaum was always waiting for the coming of the Messiah….Once someone wanted to sell Rabbi Moshe a fine house right next to the House of Prayer. “What would I do with it?“ he cried “Soon the Messiah will come and I shall go to Jerusalem”…..Even when he was very old, it never occurred to him that he could possibly die before the coming of the Messiah…..When he was eighty-two, he prayed….”Lord of the world you know that I am a wicked sinner but you also know that I intend to speak the truth. I do not lie and so I shall say only what is so. Had I, Moshe the son of Hannah known that my hair would turn grey before the Messiah came, I would very probably not have stood it. But you Lord of the world have made a fool of me day after day, until I turned grey. By my life it is a great trick of the Almighty to make a fool of an old fool….before his death he said: “I am thinking about my holy teachers whose soul is in the uppermost paradise. Why do they keep silence? Why do they not shake all the worlds to bring the Messiah down to earth?“ “In the realm of delight they have most likely been so deluged with joy that they have forgotten the earth, and to them it seems as if the Messiah had already come.“ And presently he added: “Even if they try to do the same to me - I shall not abandon my people”
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-13-2016 at 08:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,791
    There are so many liars, frauds and total nutcases on the internet hawking stuff that can truly burn through a good person with limited awareness or learning skills. It is so sad - here is another. Gregg Prescott got a degree in family psychology (he says) and has made his living off this site and selling products therefrom. He is a trained liar telling people not to believe other liars and take his words of wisdom. I would love to debate a person like him on TV so people could see how much woo and lies there are in the so-called New Age dogma.

    "Gregg Prescott, M.S.
    Editor, In5D.com

    As a Child & Family Therapist, I was trained to look for signs of lying. Here are a few more not mentioned in the article:

    Eye direction. When we think of the truth, we tend to focus our eyes either to the right or to the left. We tend to gather factual and fictitious information from different hemispheres of the brain. To tell if someone is lying, ask them questions you’re sure they know, such as their birth date, astrological sign or town they were born in, and look at what direction their eyes are looking when they’re answering. This will be the truthful direction. If they look in the opposite direction for any subsequent questions, then they may be lying.

    Flaring nostrils. As mentioned in the article above, breathing plays an important role. One thing to pay attention to is whether the subject’s nostrils are flaring or not. When we lie, our breathing rates change and these subtle changes can be observed through the flaring of the nostrils.

    Pupil dilation. When a person lies, there pupils become very large as they’re using the creative side of their brain to think of anything other than the truth. the dilation of the pupils is an uncontrollable involuntary action that is extremely difficult to fake, if at all possible..

    If you know these signs, it makes it easier to analyze people’s integrity, but please keep in mind that these are generalizations. Not everyone is the same. For the most part, they’ll give you an accurate analysis, as evidenced by my experience as a child & family therapist. I’ve even used these techniques while playing cards and can tell whether an amateur card player is bluffing or not!

    ~ Gregg"


    http://in5d.com/category/spiritual-awakening/
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-23-2016 at 08:54 AM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •