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Thread: Divination

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Lightbulb Divination


    "When you hear the word 'divination', chances are that certain images-- will spring to mind: dark gypsy fortune-tellers, tea-leaves, and crystal balls; a scene in a movie when the Ace of Spades falls in a card game or a strange figure draws the Tarot trump Death; charlatans, ouija boards, and phony swamis; or, perhaps, witch doctors and medicine men chanting around a fire. If you look a little deeper, you might see another kind of image lurking in the background: dark magicians in graveyards seeking forbidden knowledge, conjuring demons and the spirits of the dead.

    These images express attitudes - ridicule and fear - with a long history. For well over a thousand years, divination was a mortal sin and a capital crime in Western culture, a 'conversation with the devil' that was banished along with the old gods and the wise women. Divination is a central part of pagan culture and the pagan sense of a cosmos or 'living- world'. With the rise of the Church to political power in late antiquity, the old gods of this culture became devils and the living world became their work. With the rise of our modern 'scientific laws' of cause and effect, the devils in turn became superstitions, tales told by those considered to be marginal or uneducated such as women, lunatics, criminals, and savages. In spite of our inherited assumptions, divination is not a collection of superstitions. It is an outlawed way of knowing and speaking with a living world, a world ensouled and full of spirit." (1)

    Every aspect of life and many of the things considered to have no life or soul have been used in telling the intent and flow of nature. To say there is no destiny is common among the artists or scientists of each divinatory method and all understand the part we have to play. In the world of 'seems to be' that focuses on material and 'real' causes that MUST be seen (what can be called the "Toilet Philosophy") there is more superstition and destiny type of ideologies. Astrology is a refined mathematical method that has been considered a science even during the proscriptions against divinatory methodology and the rulers often were engaged in doing that which they tried to stop others from doing.

    "Man achieves the height of Wisdom when all that he does is as self evident as what Nature does." - I Ching

    We have dealt with some general divinatory methods such as 'divining rods' in 'Science' and we will cover others as we move along. The art and talent of knowing yourself and your 'center' or soul is clearly something 'free' and beyond acceptance of interpreters or priests. It was necessary to stop this freedom in order to gain total power or as close to it as possible. This book has an Orisha practice that is used in supposedly Christian Santeria. Having studied the use of what they call 'El Coco' or the casting of coconut shells I made a point to look for it. To my surprise I saw a word that looked much like Ogham or Ogam, which are variations of Ogham. The word 'ogun' was part of the process in what I think was one of the earliest methods of divination outside personal judgement or intuition.

    The following link is selling the I Ching as the earliest divinatory system. It is derived from Ogham as are the runes; I am looking at a kind of Tarot deck titled Ogham, The Celtic Oracle by Peter Pracownik and Andy Baggott. It is based on Tree Ogham which is just one kind of Ogham along with others like Beth Luis Nion and all runes. The author of the site says the Chinese invented paper - it occurs naturally on trees in Central America - better than papyrus which is also older than they say for Chinese paper. Yes, maybe the Chinese refined something a little more. But if you read the whole article you see more BELIEF and little truth. That is not to say I disagree with the thrust of the article - we do indeed benefit from knowledge developed by humans over more than a million years before the advent of writing and alphabets which Plato noted lead us away from wisdom and discipline.

    To center oneself in Bibliomancy is a good way of showing what an important flux or conduit our soul can be in taking all things into consideration rather than just what the eyes or ears perceive, and the mind or ego often insist is the only reality to recent western theology. 'The Book of Answers' gives a short description of the process we think will be helpful for learning to accept your soul does exist and wisdom doesn't always allow itself to be seen. This centering is vital to a good Tarot reader getting a truer question from the petitioner if that reader puts the person's mind at ease or should I say out of the way.

    How to Use the Book of Answers

    1. Hold the closed book in your hand, on your lap, or on a table.

    2. Take 10 or 15 seconds to concentrate on your question. Questions should be phrased closed-end, E.G. 'Is the job I'm applying for the right one?' or 'Should I travel this weekend?'

    3. While visualising or speaking your question (one question at a time). Place one hand palm down on the book's front cover and STROKE THE EDGE of the pages, back to front.

    4. When you sense the time is right, open the book and there will be your answer.

    5. Repeat the process for as many questions as you have." (2)

    My recommendation is to ask only important questions and make sure you have no other questions in your mind at the time. In beginning to read a book it is good to do this and then record what you read and thought about the contextual idea expressed. When you have read the whole book turn back to what your first question was and see if you found the most important part for yourself at that point in time. This will test your effectiveness in centering yourself as well as attuning with the knowledge in the books you read.

    Many methods of intuitive thought are forms of divination. The common way we judge people by body movement and language has been very popular in sales as long as salesmen or saleswomen have been on this earth. Many top corporations ask astrologers to give their input on important decisions once they've narrowed their choices and contemplated their options. It is never a bad thing to have one's mind open to other possibilities and opportunities. However, over-dependence and reliance on such things will turn the process into a fear-driven experience that has no freshness or attunement at all, and may lead to negative self-fulfillment. If you are doing Tarot readings for yourself or any one person it is said every two weeks is enough. Bibliomancy answers are different because Tarot integrates many aspects beyond your primary question.

    1) The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Divination, by Stephen Karcher, Element Books, Shaftesbury, 1997, pg. 7.

    2) The Book of Answers, by Carol Bolt, 1999, Hyperion, front of book with no page numbers.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-17-2016 at 08:03 PM. Reason: add color

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    A modern scholar by the name of Daniel Matt provides us with this description of the process. There are forms of meditation in every culture and concept of man and his relationship with the soul. Many of them have little to do with symbols or intellectual processes such as Mr. Matt provides in what follows. This particular ritual is contentious to some because it mentions the feminine aspect that is incorporated into the ancient knowledge of the Sphinx and was obliterated for many millennia by the Jehovah promoters who wanted men to dominate. The Shekhinah were once female goddesses in the Judaic religious complex. Our 'feminine' soul, can open doors to major insights beyond the intellectual or social conventions.

    "UNSHEATHING THE SOUL PREPARE to meet your God. Prepare to devote your heart. Purify your body and select a special place where no one else in the world can hear your voice. Be totally alone. Sit in one spot in the room or the loft, and do not reveal your secret to anyone. If you can, do this by day, even for a little while, but the best way is to do it at night {Melatonin production increases at night-thus 'night-worker' is the meaning of melatonin.}. As you prepare to speak with your Creator, to seek the revelation of his power, be careful to empty your mind of all mundane vanities. Wrap yourself in your 'tallit' and put 'tefillin' on your head so that you will be filled with the awe of Shekhinah, who is with you at this moment. Wear clean garments, all white if you can. All this helps immensely in focussing your awe and love. If it is night, light many candles until your eyes shine brightly.

    Then take hold of ink, pen and tablet. Realize that you are about to serve your God in joy. Begin to combine letters, a few or many, permuting and revolving them {This would be good training for people early in life and getting to know new languages.} rapidly until your mind warms up. Delight in how they move and in what you generate by revolving them. When you feel within that your mind is very, very warm from combining the letters and that through the combination you understand new things that you have not attained by human tradition nor discovered on your own through mental reflection, then you are ready to receive the abundant flow, and the abundance flows upon you, arousing you again and again.

    Now turn your thoughts to visualizing the Name and its supernal angels, imagining them as if they were human beings standing or sitting around you, with you in the middle like a messenger about to be sent on a royal mission, waiting to hear about it from their lips, either from the king himself or from one of his ministers. Having imagined {N.B.} this vividly, prepare your mind and heart to understand the many things about to be conveyed to you by the letters being contemplated within you. Meditate on them as a whole and in all their detail, like one to whom a parable, a riddle, or a dream is being told, or like one perusing a book of wisdom, pondering a passage beyond his grasp. Interpret what you hear in an uplifting manner, approximating it as best you can {Chant}. Based on what you understand of it, evaluate yourself and others. All this will happen after you fling the tablet from your hands and the pen from your fingers, or after they fall by themselves due to the intensity of your thoughts.

    Realize that the stronger the mental flow, the weaker become your limbs and organs. Your entire body will begin to tremble violently. You will think that you are about to die because your soul, overjoyed at what she {N.B.} has attained, will depart from your body. Consciously choose death over life, knowing that such death affects only the body and that thereby the soul lives eternally. Then you will know that you are capable of receiving the flow. If you then wish to honor the glorious NAME by serving it with the life of body and soul, hide your face, fear to gaze at God, and come no closer, like Moses at the burning bush. Return to the physical dimension, rise, eat and drink a little, inhale a fragrant aroma. Return your spirit to its sheath until another time. Rejoice in what you have, and know that God loves you.” (1)
    Visualizing the colours of the light and breathing from Yogic disciplines is a much more commonly thought of meditation. There are as many ways to meditate as there are trees in the forest. Each one is different if only by the fact of each person being different.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 11-21-2015 at 01:56 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I find no real fault in Constantine's inclusion or plagiarization of earlier and other systems of thought or their symbology into Roman Empire social engineering. The problem I see is the nature of the knowledge that they sought to prevent average people from gaining.
    The military use of propaganda is not new by any stretch of the imagination. People who accept nations and Empires as a natural and good outcome are in need of a slap in the face (and more). Knowledge is power and knowledge in the hands of the few is a corrupting power. They have used mind-fogging projections to enslave and make people live in fear of demons and other constructs.

    "Among the most famous--and fiercest--of the laws that Moses is shown to bring down from Mt. Sinai are the ones that criminalize the practice of magic. 'There shall not be found among you a soothsayer, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer,' decrees Moses. 'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.' (From Biblio: Deut 18: 10; Exod. 22: 18.) Magic working is condemned with equal fervor in the Christian Bible, where it is explicitly kinked with all the other outrages of paganism: 'The fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, {Yes, and the Catholics had more idols than the pagan pantheon especially when you include the saints along with 'Laddio, Daddio and Spook'.} and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.' (From Biblio: Rev. 21: 8.)

    Ironically, an intriguing and illuminating clue to the function of sorcery in the pagan world is buried away in one of the most beloved passages of the Christian Bible. 'Three wise men' come in search of the newborn Jesus, or so goes the conventional English translation of Matthew 2: 1-2, 'for we have seen his star in the east, and have come to worship him.' The 'wise men' are plainly called 'magi' in the Greek text, the plural form of 'magus,' a word that was used among the pagans of Babylonia and Persia to identify seers, soothsayers and sorcerers. 'Magus' is the root of 'magic,' and so we might more accurately call the men who followed a star to Bethlehem the three magicians.

    'Magus' came to be used in Jewish and Christian circles as a derogatory term to describe someone who trafficked in black magic; a sorcerer, a deceiver, even a poisoner. But the original meaning of the word in the pagan world was honorable and even exalted..." (1)
    Then there are the constant proclamations that various 'experts' make about ESP. Stanford Research Institute included the inventor of the laser and many fine scientists that these so-called 'experts' are seldom able to evaluate or as debunkers are paid to marginalize. Russell Targ's book Limitless Mind including a foreword by Jean Houston is a great book for the truly open-minded individual. Targ's book - which is the study of consciousness and the ethereal Matrix at a high scientific level says:
    "...forced-choice ESP tests are an inefficient way to elicit psi functioning: they always have an additional burden of boredom and mental noise (AOL). In the above studies, the experimenters, on average, had to carry out 3,600 trials to achieve a statistically significant result. With the free-response type of experiment, such as remote viewing, we typically have to do only six to nine trials." (2)
    Does it not make sense to 'observe' all the avenues for wisdom that we are blessed with?

    1) God against the gods: the history of the war between monotheism and polytheism, by Jonathan Kirsch, Penguin, NY, 2004, pg. 46.

    2) Limitless Mind, by Russell Targ, New World Library, California, 2004, pg. 95.

    When did the potential of consciousness become useful? A long time before there was a word most likely. Here are some links of value to any person.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 11-30-2015 at 12:56 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I have often been asked where and when did alchemy begin. I say things like - "It began when people started thinking and observing". There are many methods of observation and conclusion (The Scientific Method developed by alchemists long before Roger Bacon who was an alchemist.). Here is a good guess about the origin of divination or magic and what became alchemy.

    And the Rosicrucians of the Masonic Lodges have maintained much of the ritual and knowledge even if most of them are not able to decode the rituals, symbols and words they speak. It may surprise some people to see German historian C. Besoldus (1577-1638) claiming that the name Huns came from a Keltic word meaning 'Great Magicians'. Surely this is what the Druids and 'smiths' were able to do. They were even able to create spiritual visions of such force that whole armies would shudder and quake, then run from the field of battle. This book is much more than a statement on the nature of propaganda and yet it can only begin to cover all our human potential might have allowed or might yet allow.

    When did the potential of consciousness become useful? A long time before there was a word for alchemy most likely. Here are some links of value to any person.

    Many priests appeared to be great diviners because of their astronomical knowledge of events including eclipses and comets. This kind of fake out was still being done in the last century and you could even say all the apocalypse crap of Christians talking about Mayans predicting the 2012 spiritual re-alignment as the 'end of days' is the same thing. But it often had ghastly results as in the case of Pizarro's men hacking and hewing thousands to death because their leader told his army that could easily have killed all the Spaniards to lay down their arms. History seldom tells you about the written agreement between this leader and Pizarro done about a year earlier on the occasion of Pizarro arriving in South America. The leader had used the Cosmic serpent astronomy as his reason for predicting the arrival of a new age. Sometimes this was done over a century in advance as in the case of the Holy Romans who worked with Aztecs to alter the Mayan calendar to predict the arrival of what Cortez brought to fruition on the first day of wheat - the return of the white g-ds.

    The Greek oracles were often in an hallucinatory state due to gases coming up from the earth according to recent archaeology. They really didn't heed to hallucinate to repeat what they had been paid to say in order to assist getting people to venture out in new expeditions to colonize or defeat some other place.

    If you go back a lot further you find priesthoods attuned to helping people and improving many conditions. The trust developed by ancient shamans was usurped by religions with interpreters running nations. The currently running Expedition show on TV had the Atacama giant and Nazca Lines mystery on a recent episode. It said what I said - lines over water aquifers and people using spiritual rituals to draw energy to bring water to the surface. The rituals include alignment of the designs to the sun and stars (like Venus or the morning star) and the Earth Energy Grid like all other megaliths.

    The following link is selling the I Ching as the earliest divinatory system. It is derived from Ogham as are the runes; I am looking at a kind of Tarot deck titled Ogham, The Celtic Oracle by Peter Pracownik and Andy Baggott. It is based on Tree Ogham which is just one kind of Ogham along with others like Beth Luis Nion and all runes. The author of the site says the Chinese invented paper - it occurs naturally on trees in Central America - better than papyrus which is also older than they say for Chinese paper. Yes, maybe the Chinese refined something a little more. But if you read the whole article you see more BELIEF and little truth. That is not to say I disagree with the thrust of the article - we do indeed benefit from knowledge developed by humans over more than a million years before the advent of writing and alphabets which Plato noted lead us away from wisdom and discipline.

    The Dream Dancers of Africa probably saw chimps dancing around 5,000,000 or more years ago. The ingestion of hallucinogens is a logical source for divination origins. Here is a very early divination system which may be as old as dancing. The ogun in this system is also Ogam or Ogham. The 'h' is just a sound which linguists call an aspirant - it is made when lips and breath occur during speech in a manner to make the sound. It gradually got included in alphabets.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-19-2015 at 10:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    The magic mirror and it's liquid inside the sphere will allow any adept to see a whole lot more than the past, I think. In this excerpt from one of my books the practitioner is Frabato - the magical name of Franz Bardon of A. M. O. R. C. and alchemy. His magic mirror had more than the usual scryring type or what the person in this link is talking about -

    'I tried sending through an attachment from a fellow researcher who is working on the Kaballah as derivative from Qabala which is an ancient Verbal Tradition such as kept by the Bairds or bards and the Bardic Tradition for over 25,000 years. He finds my history is supportive and I see his sets of codes in English and other things of great value. The particular piece is 19 pages on just the letter 'E' without getting too verbose or using illustrations, which he has lots of. The Gematria is not a specialty of mine although I am pretty good at pre-history languages and not bad at Green Languages and alchemical allegories in the Jung from Silberer subset derived from alchemy or Hermetics. That has usages in psychotherapy and mind control which they call Neuro Psycho Linguistics and other words and systems they often do not understand; it once was called Dream Analysis but they have gone far along the path of programming the mind. Kind of funny how psychiatrists say they do not believe in a soul and yet they use these archetypes from our collective soul.

    So as Dion Fortune did say - Kaballah is 'twisted'. They have built these constructs or dimensional energy designs so that Masons and other 'traveling men' as some call them (astral travels) will think they have stumbled upon a great truth through their 'visions'. After all; who can imagine that elementals and dimensional energies are subject to such design engineering - eh? As Jung says in his forward to The Tibetan Book of the Dead - the Hindu will see Shiva whereas the Christian will go through the Bardol stages of Afterlife to see the likes of Gabriel then Jesus.'

    Here is a correspondence from the fellow researcher mentioned above. His name is Dennis Fetcho.

    "No I haven't seen any of your recent stuff. Been travelling a lot these past few months. Spent a month in the hospital in Montreal from an attack in December that left me unable to move for a few weeks due to the multiple fractures suffered. Some of my advisors called the attack a military style hit with the intent to kill. Missed hitting my head on the streets, but the rest of the body took a licking!

    Yeah. Had drinks with one of Jordan's top masons while in Amman and he was so impressed that he wanted to confer an honorary degree on me... as he said, "If only it were in my power". I have many ideas in mind and one is to infiltrate Masonry and fuse it with "right thinking" based on my Isisian Code System which I know would be very accepted in such an environment.

    It is easy to destroy a paradigm through decay within. I think it is a favored "Jehovian strategy!"... lol"

    "The members of the secret F.O.G.C. {from the words of a top Rosicrucian friend this means the Freemasonic Order of the Golden Centurion.} Lodge, greatly feared in occult circles, had gathered for a general meeting in Dresden. The Meeting hall was in a large villa, hidden in the midst of a private park behind a tall hedge and large trees. The Grand Master of the lodge had invited ninety-eight of the ninety-nine members to attend. Long before the meeting commenced, the members had taken their places at two long tables.

    All conversation in the hall became muted when the Grand Master entered accompanied by his second-in-command, who acted as Secretary. There was a platform opposite the hall's entrance where the Grand Master sat down behind a desk. He rang a bell and at once there was complete silence. He addressed the brethren of the lodge in an intense penetrating voice:

    'My dear brothers, I hereby open today's meeting and I am pleased that you have accepted my invitation. As you know, according to the laws of the lodge a general meeting such as this is only declared in very special cases. You may have already noticed that Brother Silesius is not present. Unfortunately, he has been found guilty of betraying lodge secrets and, as Point Number One of the agenda, we will discuss his sentence. Point Number Two concerns Frabato the Magician, who is becoming so well-known here in Dresden.

    'My dear brothers, you all know that Brother Silesius has reached the twenty-fifth degree of initiation in our lodge, and therefore must have been fully aware of his offences. His excessive zeal seduced him to reveal to one of his friends the rituals we use to invoke the elemental beings. According to the laws of our lodge, the breaking of an oath and the disclosure of secrets are punishable by death...

    Although the verdict had deeply shaken the Grand Master, he quickly regained his composure and continued in a calmer voice.

    'Since Point Number One of the agenda has been settled, let us now deal with the case of Frabato. Some of the brethren present attended his performances and were able to convince themselves of his abilities at close range. It has been proven that he works without the aid of conventional tricks. His experiments succeeded beyond all expectation; yes, they were even better than what many of our own brethren would be able to accomplish. Hermes, one of our more versatile brothers, paid a visit to Frabato in order to test him. He will now tell you of his experience.

    The distinguished gentleman who had visited Frabato late at night now rose from amongst the brethren.

    'I chose the best astrological hour for my visit to Frabato. I also took into account the correspondences of the elements in order to place myself in a strong initial position. Besides this, I hoped he would be exhausted after the performance he had just given; that would have been to my advantage. I explained the unusual time of my visit by telling him I had a journey to make which could not be postponed. Upon hearing this, Frabato looked at me sharply and then smiled faintly without uttering a word.

    'I then painted a very colorful picture of our lodge membership; pointed out its many advantages, and promised him a large sum of money from our funds should he decide to join. But Frabato completely ignored my proposals and started to talk about his journeys, his performances and successes in many cities and towns. He was able to arouse my curiosity so strongly that I almost forgot the reason for my visit.

    In time I interrupted him and tried to direct his attention to my offer, He rose and pulled a suitcase out from under his bed saying, 'Now let us have a look at what the Akashic records have to say about your lodge.'

    'As you know, my dear brothers, I am well acquainted with occult methods and practices; therefore I was determined to use all my powers to prevent Frabato's experiment. But as soon as the notion entered my mind, he said to me, as if by chance, 'Dear Mr. Hermes, my experiments depend purely upon my will power and cannot be influenced or prevented by you. They will succeed whether you actively appose them or not.'

    'I felt that Frabato could see right through me, and surmised that I would have no chance against him, so I watched his preparations intently {Intent is a key attribute to be developed.}. First he cleaned his hands carefully, took a small bottle out of his suitcase, and applied a few drops to his hands. No doubt it was prepared from the essences of certain plants, {Perhaps Belladonna and lilac extract which have long been part of the shamanic medicine bag, mixed with a little blood of the practitioner in order to aid genetic attunement at a solar or molecular and animal state consciousness.} for a pleasant fragrance permeated the room. He then took a small lamp out of a little box and put it on the table. Then, from a second box, he brought forth a glass ball about twenty centimeters in diameter and placed it on a stand on the table. When I asked him what purpose this glass ball served, Frabato laughed and replied, 'If there were any clairvoyants in your lodge, and if they really possessed the knowledge which you attempt or pretend to have, then they would know that this is a magic mirror. This sphere contains a liquid, the particular composition of which requires not only patient work but excellent magical abilities as well.'

    'I was enraged; but I tried to control myself, for I felt that nothing remained hidden from this man.

    'I am going to show you a film, and then you can judge for yourself whether it is really advantageous to be a member of your lodge,' he continued.

    'I watched each of his movements attentively, to be sure that he was not employing any tricks. He rolled up the sleeves of his shirt and sat down beside me in front of the sphere. Then he stretched both his hands towards the glass ball, his fingers slightly splayed. A grayish-white light escaped from the tips of his fingers and was absorbed by the sphere which, a few moments later, began to illuminate everything with a fluorescent ball of light the color of a fiery opal.... I was by that time in some suspense as he said:

    'Next we shall look behind the scenes of your esteemed Grand Master's life.... The color of the Grand Master's face changed a few times. When Hermes began to describe some of the more startling events of the Grand Master's life as revealed to him in the magic mirror, the Grand Master discreetly gave him to understand that this was not desirable. Hermes understood and skillfully moved on to more general topics. {The same was done for eight of the top members of the lodge.}
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-10-2015 at 04:07 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    There is a great deal we need to learn before we can even begin a personal plan much less a realistic plan to apply all the potential of a community, country or even the planet. Education needs to focus on spiritual potential such as yoga does as I see it. But then people point out that India is poor or Lululemon is crazy. Sri Aurobindo's constant companion says these things about prophecy and I dare say planning is what makes prophecies come true.

    "The Mother Mira Alfassa on astrology

    The stars have no decisive influence. It is only if one does not believe in the Divine that one unnecessarily suffers by believing that they determine one’s life.

    I have known many astrologers both in Europe and India. So far, nobody has been able to read the future correctly. There are three reasons for the failure.

    1.First, the astrologers do not know how to read the future properly.
    2.Secondly, the horoscope is always incorrectly made − unless a man is a mathematical genius. And even for such a person it is very difficult to make a correct horoscope.
    3.Thirdly, when people say that the stars in this or that house at the time of birth rule your life, they are quite wrong. The stars under which you are born are only “tape-recorders” of physical conditions. They do not rule the future of the soul. There is something beyond, which rules the stars themselves and everything else. The soul belongs to this Supreme Being. And if it is doing Yoga, then all the more it should never believe in the power of the stars or in any other power.

    An astrologer who predicts a catastrophe for you is like a joker. Many jokers say things like, “Today you will break your neck!” But in spite of the joke nothing happens.

    Only a great Yogi can tell you your future correctly. But even then there is the Supreme Will which alone controls and decides everything.

    The most important factor in a horoscope is the intuitive faculty of the astrologer."

    Do I believe in Divination? No I do not. Do I believe anything? Not much of anything would fall into the category of certainty for me, but I do believe or know many systems and forces which do influence the FUTURE POTENTIAL. There are alternate possibilities and free choice can overcome forces lining up to cause something different. I told my father this when I told him he would die when he was 65, and he replied something to the extent - 'If so, that is fine.' We buried him a day after his 65th birthday and he had just been given a clean bill of health to continue working past retirement. I am at that same point in life now. A few years ago I made some healthy choices that probably have extended my life a decade or so, but I don't fear death or meeting the future for my soul.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-10-2015 at 04:01 PM.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2015
    Does it appear that I am willing to walk both sides of the fence when it comes to destiny or pre-cognition? Am I using dimensional science and alternative universes as a way to explain away reality? That is for you to decide - but I will only say I think the soul exists and it is reality more than what the ego or brain conditioning tells us.

    "Katinka Hesselink 2006

    Jiddu Krishnamurti's life was special in many ways, as is relatively well known. For those that didn't know yet: clairvoyance is part of that list. It started when Krishnamurti was young and there is every indication that it stayed part of his life.

    Krishnamurti said the following on his mother's clairvoyance and his own childhood clairvoyance, which started after the death of Krishnamurti's eldest sister (Lutyens, 1975: 5)

    They [his mother and his dead sister] talked together and there was a special place in the garden to which my sister used to come. My mother always knew when my sister was there and sometimes took me with her to the place, and would ask me whether I saw my sister too. At first I laughed at the question, but she asked me to look again and then sometimes I saw my sister. Afterwards I could always see my sister. I must confess I was very much afraid, because I had seen her dead and her body burnt. I generally rushed to my mother's side and she told me there was no reason to be afraid. I was the only member of the family, except my mother, to see these visions, though all believed in them. My mother was able to see the auras of people, and I also sometimes saw them. Krishnamurti said (in public) about visions of Krishna and later Buddha:
    When one has an experience, a new vision, say of Christ or of Buddha or Krishna, that vision is the projection of your own conditioning. The Communist, if he has visions at all, will see the perfect state all beautifully arranged where everything is bureaucratically laid down. Or if you are a Catholic, you will have your visions of Christ or the Virgin and so on; it all depends on your conditioning. And when you recognise that vision, you recognise it because it has already been experienced, already known. So there is nothing really new in the recognition of a vision. [ you are the world, 1969, Berkley] This public stance makes it seem as though Krishnamurti thoroughly repudiated all occultism. But the various biographies of Krishnamurti do mention incidents that can only be interpreted as confirming in quite a personal way that his world-view and personal experience didn't stop having occult or theosophical traits after he left the Theosophical Society. Most of this was private. But in public he also made his view clear when he said:

    "So meditation has a significance. One must have this meditative quality of the mind, not occasionally but all day long. And that implies another thing, which is: this something that is sacred, not imagined, not fantastic, affects our lives not only during the waking hours but during sleep. And in this process of meditation there are all kinds of powers that come into being. One becomes clairvoyant, the body then becomes extraordinarily sensitive. Now clairvoyance, healing, thought transference and so on, becomes totally unimportant. All the occult powers become so utterly irrelevant and when you pursue those you are pursuing something that will ultimately lead to illusion. That is one factor." 4th Public Talk, Brockwood Park, 1975, “Truth & Actuality”, Chapter 9 In short: clairvoyance is a fact, but it isn't important, it also leads to illusion.
    It may surprise some of my readers, but this is actually a thoroughly traditional view of this issue in Buddhism, the Yoga Suttras of Patanjali and it is also traditional theosophy:

    1.THESE instructions are for those ignorant of the dangers of the lower IDDHI [siddhis or psychic powers]
    2.He who would hear the voice of Nada, "the Soundless Sound," and comprehend it, he has to learn the nature of Dharana.
    3.Having become indifferent to objects of perception, the pupil must seek out the rajah of the senses, the Thought-Producer, he who awakes illusion.
    4.The Mind is the great Slayer of the Real.

    Let the Disciple slay the Slayer. [first page of The H.P. Blavatsky, The Voice of the Silence, 1886] (numbering for this article)"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Here we have a description of ancient prophecy. Like many prophets it illustrates a gift of gab with no substance or merit. I will translate it and it's ghostly content.

    "Ancient Prophecy

    Ancient Prophecy – The Messages Communicated by Ancient Prophets

    When anybody talks about prophecy these days, you may find a lot of controversy surrounding the topic with regards to whether the prophecy was true or false. This is because there have been a large number of people who are declaring themselves to be prophets and they are actually not true prophets. The same problem existed years ago, when there were many people prophesying but there was a gross uncertainty as to who was hearing from the Lord as opposed to who were associated with familiar spirits or spirits of divination. An ancient prophecy can be described as a message that was communicated to a prophet by the Supreme Being and he in turn would communicate this message to others. The message communicated by the prophet could contain any information that involved revelation, divine inspiration, judgment or simply an interpretation.

    The concept of ancient prophecy is to be found in different parts of the religious world among some of the world’s largest religious groups namely, Christianity, Judaism and Islam, as well as many other smaller religious groups across the world. There are many definitions given to prophecy by these religious groups, for example, some groups believe that ancient prophecy was sent forth from a divine being through the medium of a normal man predicting future events relating to the end of the world. There are others; however who believe that ancient prophecy under its strict sense speaks to the foreknowledge of future events, though it may actually have a relationship to past events and to present hidden matters which are not usually understood by the natural beings. Nevertheless, history has revealed that the earliest form of the definition of ancient prophecy dealt in much detail with the issue of predicting future events.

    In Judaism, you will find out that the earliest type of prophecy typically consisted of a warning by God against the lifestyle of the people, leaders and others who were living contrary to the principles and teaching of the Torah. However, some of those prophecies included the promises of God’s blessing upon the people because of their obedience to the Torah. In Christianity, there is also a strong emphasis on ancient prophecies in the Old Testament, of which many are said to have been fulfilled in the New Testament. One of the most potent Christian ancient prophecies was that by the prophet Isaiah about the coming of Jesus Christ as the Messiah to save the world from their sins. Another popular religion known as the Islamic faith, also believes in ancient prophecies. This is because many Muslims today still believe that Muhammad had experiences of a prophetic nature and phenomena that allowed him to interpret visions and dreams.

    However, despite the fulfillment of many prophecies of the Holy Scriptures, you may realize that many people are still having doubts as to whether prophets actually exist. For example, atheists completely disagree with the fact that an individual can hear a message from the Supreme Being and communicate that message to others; atheists will disagree solely on the basis that the Supreme Being doesn’t exists to communicate messages to his people. Notwithstanding this, prophecies continue to fulfill before our eyes."

    Ancient prophecy = Divine Intervention and the New Testament said the Old one was correct in it's prophesizing atheists cannot see the fulfillment of Holy Scripture.

    Note: The same Scriptures in the three members of one cult are somehow made into proof of what they do not agree is in the Scriptures. The Jews do not think Jesus was the Messiah (if he existed). The Muslims think he existed but was just a prophet. The Romans who conquered them both (or all three) put words in his mouth. No doubt many claiming they are prophets also get one or two guesses out of a thousand correct.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-16-2016 at 02:51 AM.

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