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Thread: Earth's Only Hope - Ecumenicism

  1. #11
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    Russell Brand doesn't really drive home how bad Christians are for the environment when he misses how many of this cult would love to see Armageddon so they could be proven correct after all the failures and lies about it. And how many of those saying they are Christian are really sharing the same religious concepts? Good to see some people starting to say they are not Christian or believers in boogeymen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1QsBydzcyw&spfreload=1

    Jesus said (in saying 108 from the Gospel of Thomas):

    "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; I myself shall become that person, and the hidden things will be revealed to that person."
    The 'hidden things' were not in his religion, they were in his heart. Those who would interpret for us would say they know what he meant. I say if they have lived his life and done what he did then they have a leg to stand on.

    I have not read the following but it looks like it does explore a lot of relevant matters to our attempt to bring all religion under one roof.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/78514742/A...the-Tao#scribd

    This is indeed an open-minded and scientific although humorous road to peek into. It includes DNA studies and a skull some want to say is Jesus.

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/l...13644-550.html

    "Faith is an openness and trusting attitude to truth and reality, whatever it may turn out to be. This is a risky and adventurous state of mind. Belief in the religious sense, is the opposite of faith - because it is a fervent wishing or hope, a compulsive clinging to the idea that the universe is arranged and governed in such and such a way. Belief is holding to a rock; faith is learning how to swim - and this whole universe swims in boundless space." - Alan Watts

    “There is no unreturn’d love,” wrote Walt Whitman, “the pay is certain one way or another.” Maybe Jesus said. "He who is least selfish is most selfish."

    I know the Mayans say "Do not put yourself in front of your Self."

    I have no doubt AI and epigenetics and a whole host of integrated systems including Holography or Virtual Reality will get to where they are headed. Question is, does anyone care to make a plan for us redundant lifeforms?

    http://alpha.tmit.bme.hu/speech/docs...leepThesis.pdf
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-05-2015 at 01:35 PM.

  2. #12
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    When Temples were created and sharing of spiritual ideas went inside or behind closed doors around the time of Ariadne of Crete 'all Hell broke loose". It is most probably the most important thing which went wrong and is still seriously wrong with society. I am (of course) talking about the denigration of equality between sexes. And it was definitely why Herodotus was made into a fiction writer by those who not only wrote fiction, they brainwashed all of society for millennia. Empire is not best, Brotherhood is!

    "It comes as no surprise that the composer Richard Wagner was enthralled by Bachofen’s writings. Brünnhilde and her fellow Valkyries could be easily mistaken for flying Amazons. But Bachofen’s influence went far beyond the Ring Cycle. Starting with Friedrich Engels, Bachofen inspired generations of Marxist and feminist theorists to write wistfully of a pre-patriarchal age when the evils of class, property and war were unknown. As Engels memorably put it: “The overthrow of mother-right was the world historical defeat of the female sex. The man took command in the home also; the woman was degraded and reduced to servitude; she became the slave of his lust and a mere instrument for the production of children.”

    There was, however, one major problem with the Bachofen-inspired theory of matriarchy: There was not a shred of physical evidence to support it. In the 20th century, one school of thought claimed that the real Amazons were probably beardless “bow-toting Mongoloids” mistaken for women by the Greeks. Another insisted that they were simply a propaganda tool used by the Athenians during times of political stress. The only theorists who remained relatively unfazed by the debates swirling through academia were the Freudians, for whom the idea of the Amazons was far more interesting in the abstract than in a pottery fragment or arrowhead. The Amazonian myths appeared to hold the key to the innermost neuroses of the Athenian male. All those women sitting astride their horses, for example—surely the animal was nothing but a phallus substitute. As for their violent death in tale after tale, this was obviously an expression of unresolved sexual conflict.

    Myth or fact, symbol or neurosis, none of the theories adequately explained the origins of the Amazons. If these warrior women were a figment of Greek imagination, there still remained the unanswered question of who or what had been the inspiration for such an elaborate fiction. Their very name was a puzzle that mystified the ancient Greeks. They searched for clues to its origins by analyzing the etymology of Amazones, the Greek for Amazon. The most popular explanation claimed that Amazones was a derivation of a, “without,” and mazos, “breasts”; another explanation suggested ama-zoosai, meaning “living together,” or possibly ama-zoonais, “with girdles.” The idea that Amazons cut or cauterized their right breasts in order to have better bow control offered a kind of savage plausibility that appealed to the Greeks.

    The eighth-century B.C. poet Homer was the first to mention the existence of the Amazons. In the Iliad—which is set 500 years earlier, during the Bronze or Heroic Age—Homer referred to them somewhat cursorily as Amazons antianeirai, an ambiguous term that has resulted in many different translations, from “antagonistic to men” to “the equal of men.” In any case, these women were considered worthy enough opponents for Homer’s male characters to be able to boast of killing them—without looking like cowardly bullies.

    Future generations of poets went further and gave the Amazons a fighting role in the fall of Troy—on the side of the Trojans. Arktinos of Miletus added a doomed romance, describing how the Greek Achilles killed the Amazonian queen Penthesilea in hand-to-hand combat, only to fall instantly in love with her as her helmet slipped to reveal the beautiful face beneath. From then on, the Amazons played an indispensable role in the foundation legends of Athens. Hercules, for example, last of the mortals to become a god, fulfills his ninth labor by taking the magic girdle from the Amazon queen Hippolyta.

    By the mid-sixth century B.C., the foundation of Athens and the defeat of the Amazons had become inextricably linked, as had the notion of democracy and the subjugation of women. The Hercules versus the Amazons myth was adapted to include Theseus, whom the Athenians venerated as the unifier of ancient Greece. In the new version, the Amazons came storming after Theseus and attacked the city in a battle known as the Attic War. It was apparently a close-run thing. According to the first century A.D. Greek historian Plutarch, the Amazons “were no trivial nor womanish enterprise for Theseus. For they would not have pitched their camp within the city, nor fought hand-to-hand battles in the neighborhood of the Pynx and the Museum, had they not mastered the surrounding country and approached the city with impunity.” As ever, though, Athenian bravery saved the day.

    The first pictorial representations of Greek heroes fighting scantily clad Amazons began to appear on ceramics around the sixth century B.C. The idea quickly caught on and soon “amazonomachy,” as the motif is called (meaning Amazon battle), could be found everywhere: on jewelry, friezes, household items and, of course, pottery. It became a ubiquitous trope in Greek culture, just like vampires are today, perfectly blending the allure of sex with the frisson of danger. The one substantial difference between the depictions of Amazons in art and in poetry was the breasts. Greek artists balked at presenting anything less than physical perfection.

    The more important the Amazons became to Athenian national identity, the more the Greeks searched for evidence of their vanquished foe. The fifth century B.C. historian Herodotus did his best to fill in the missing gaps. The “father of history,” as he is known, located the Amazonian capital as Themiscyra, a fortified city on the banks of the Thermodon River near the coast of the Black Sea in what is now northern Turkey. The women divided their time between pillaging expeditions as far afield as Persia and, closer to home, founding such famous towns as Smyrna, Ephesus, Sinope and Paphos. Procreation was confined to an annual event with a neighboring tribe. Baby boys were sent back to their fathers, while the girls were trained to become warriors. An encounter with the Greeks at the Battle of Thermodon ended this idyllic existence.

    Three shiploads of captured Amazons ran aground near Scythia, on the southern coast of the Black Sea. At first, the Amazons and the Scythians were braced to fight each other. But love indeed conquered all and the two groups eventually intermarried. Their descendants became nomads, trekking northeast into the steppes where they founded a new race of Scythians called the Sauromatians. “The women of the Sauromatae have continued from that day to the present,” wrote Herodotus, “to observe their ancient customs, frequently hunting on horseback with their husbands...in war taking the field and wearing the very same dress as the men....Their marriage law lays it down, that no girl shall wed until she has killed a man in battle.”

    The trail of the Amazons nearly went cold after Herodotus. Until, that is, the early 1990s when a joint U.S.-Russian team of archaeologists made an extraordinary discovery while excavating 2,000-year-old burial mounds—known as kurgans—outside Pokrovka, a remote Russian outpost in the southern Ural Steppes near the Kazakhstan border. There, they found over 150 graves belonging to the Sauromatians and their descendants, the Sarmatians.

    Among the burials of “ordinary women,” the researchers uncovered evidence of women who were anything but ordinary. There were graves of warrior women who had been buried with their weapons. One young female, bowlegged from constant riding, lay with an iron dagger on her left side and a quiver containing 40 bronze-tipped arrows on her right. The skeleton of another female still had a bent arrowhead embedded in the cavity. Nor was it merely the presence of wounds and daggers that amazed the archaeologists. On average, the weapon-bearing females measured 5 feet 6 inches, making them preternaturally tall for their time.

    Finally, here was evidence of the women warriors that could have inspired the Amazon myths. In recent years, a combination of new archaeological finds and a reappraisal of older discoveries has confirmed that Pokrovka was no anomaly. Though clearly not a matriarchal society, the ancient nomadic peoples of the steppes lived within a social order that was far more flexible and fluid than the polis of their Athenian contemporaries."

    Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...Whf2qjgSqxU.99
    Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
    Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

    I am sorry to sound like a broken record when I say things like 'the denigration of our weakest members of society, reflects on the most powerful in that society - directly.' They can hide behind henchmen or priestly interpreters of bogus words from boogeymen all they want. THEY are responsible, whether Ayatollah or Agape, Deacon or Dervish, Pastor or Pope!
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-05-2015 at 01:45 PM.

  3. #13
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    Just in case anyone thinks syncretism or syncretic religions and cults are ecumenical, I refute that. Not to suggest I do not laud any effort to enjoin religions and teach any universal truths as Mani tired to do when there were far fewer people hacking and hewing each other to smithereens. Here is a weird combination of ancestor worship, and Taoism with saints like Victor Hugo. I have to think Madame Blavatsky influenced some of it's founders.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao_%C4%90%C3%A0i

    We can (!) re-distribute the ego's needs for honor that lead to the structures of Mediterranean patronage or cronyism. We do not need to read good anthropologists like John Davis in order to know what still runs everything around us. Please do not simply respond to my effort as if I am a mere and simple 'conspiracy theorist'. Those who call me that kind of thing are often weak-willed sycophants or just the thing people see when they look in the mirror; if they have not studied what is possible and why things are the way they are. Put another way - in the words of the scholar Peristiany: "The punctiliousness of honour must be referred to the code of an exclusive and agonistic microsociety; that of honesty to an inclusive, egalitarian macrosociety." Let us work together and end this ideology of gloom that insists humans can be no more than the 'beast with red cheeks' or some other object Machiavellians and politicos merely 'manage' as if we are 'money-trees'.

    It should be obvious that the 'spin' I will put to the facts exists just as it does with any other writer. You may consider me a Utopian in the typology of Bryan Wilson or as one who "... 'presumes' some divinely given principles 'of reconstruction,... more radical than the reformist alternative, but unlike the revolutionist option, insists much more on the role human beings must take in the process'..." (2)


    "Faith is an openness and trusting attitude to truth and reality, whatever it may turn out to be. This is a risky and adventurous state of mind. Belief in the religious sense, is the opposite of faith - because it is a fervent wishing or hope, a compulsive clinging to the idea that the universe is arranged and governed in such and such a way. Belief is holding to a rock; faith is learning how to swim - and this whole universe swims in boundless space." - Alan Watts

    I like to re-energize myself with an occasional retrospective of the fight waged by Teilhard de Chardin. In the following we have a fool attacking a humanistic genius - and why does that happen?



    "By: Dr. J. P. Hubert

    Moral Relativism and Utilitarianism are the reigning (immoral) philosophies in the developed West. Most of our public policy dilemmas are either directly or indirectly related to the widespread acceptance of these post-Enlightenment constructs. Some of the blame for our current predicament can be laid at the feet of Fr. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit Priest who attempted to institute a “New Religion” by combining Darwinian evolution with his unorthodox view of Theism.



    As Wolfgang Smith has written, Teilhard de Chardin intended to start a New Religion.[1] He made it quite clear on several occasions. In a letter to Leontine Zanta he wrote: “As you already know, what dominates my interest and my preoccupations is the effort to establish in myself and to spread around a new religion (you may call it a better Christianity) in which the personal God ceases to be the great Neolithic proprietor of former times, in order to become the soul of the world; our religious and cultural stage calls for this.”[2] Dietrich von Hildebrand and Wolfgang Smith trace much of the heterodoxy of the second Vatican Conciliar process to the circulation of Teilhardian conceptions of science[3] (especially with respect to biological evolution) and derivatively, Teilhard’s view of religion. Teilhard seems to have made the transformism[4] of biological evolution palatable to certain Catholic Theologians who wished to embrace what they perceived as modern evolutionary science. Traditionally, the entire notion had been thought heretical particularly as concerned the biological evolution of human beings. Through his New Religion, Teilhard gave a patina of legitimacy to the entire concept of evolution by theorizing the existence of “point Omega” which ultimately he identified with Jesus Christ.



    It appears that many Catholic Theologians were duped by failing to differentiate the actual facts of biological science from the prevailing naturalistic philosophy (metaphysical naturalism) which as a result of the assertions of leading biologists, was virtually inseparable from it.[5] This made them “ripe” for Teilhard’s proposed incorporation of Evolution into “Christianity.” Teilhard’s New Religion was therefore very much on the minds of some of the participants of the Council, some explicitly and some only implicitly. One might say that the “flavor” was in the air. Unfortunately, no systematic refutation of Teilhard’s theory was available in 1962 prior to the commencing of Vatican II. Wolfgang Smith’s work which accomplished same became available only in 1988.



    In a sense then, when Pope John XXIII called for “aggiornamento”, (whether recognized at the time or not), not only was he opening the windows of the Traditional Catholic Church to the world but to what Teilhard had been promulgating as the New Religion as well. It is the latter effect that has produced the post-Conciliar disaster’s with which most Catholics are all too familiar. Unfortunately, Teilhard’s heretical New Religion has been embraced either in part or in whole by several generations of post-conciliar Catholics given that Teilhard’s spurious notions have never been formally repudiated.[6] Teilhardism effectively destroyed the Creation tenet of orthodox Catholicism, the Fall from Grace and with it the concept of Original Sin, the atoning death of Christ on the Cross and thereby the entire Salvation/Redemption tenet based as it is on Christ’s crucifixion and literal bodily resurrection."
    http://amaiceducation.blog.com/2011/...xtraordinaire/
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-05-2015 at 01:39 PM.

  4. #14
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    Life on Earth might by-pass humanity if there is enough cosmic consciousness to create what is best for this planet. Will AI dependence cause the end of religion? Surely no programmer would put a religion (war mongering, misogynistic, racist etc.) into a robot and no developing intellect in one would be that stupid.

    Soon our brain will grow and we will die much older which more than any other factor including robotics will change humanity according to one line of thought. I see little evidence of this happening as soon as they predict, and I know robotics and other technology can do more than they seem to think.

    "Are we evolving into a NEW type of human? 'Different' species will have evolved by 2050, scientist claims
    This is according to Cadell Last, a researcher at the Global Brain Institute
    Mr. Last claims we will live longer, have kids in old age and rely on robots
    We may also end up spending a large amount of our time in virtual reality
    Huge shift is comparable to the change from apes to humans, he says
    'Your 80 or 100 is going to be so radically different than your grandparents,' he argues. 'The biological clock isn't going to be around forever'."
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...tist-says.html

    There is a mystical neo-Platonism which is beyond the pall of Plato's hierarchy or top-down management which mirrors more ancient meritocracies - that we would truly be better off having if we could trust anyone. It is a Perennial Philosophy that a wanna-be alchemist named Leibniz came up with and Aldous Huxley brought to the revival called a New Age (mistakenly).

    http://mythosandlogos.com/perennial.html
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-05-2015 at 01:47 PM.

  5. #15
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    My reply to fundies on another site.

    Yes, I am sure the people haters who support religious mayhem, genocide and misogyny are disturbed. Usually they are illiterate and find it hard to read or address facts. They don't want to believe the Pope who said they are responsible for two millennia of heinous acts (see Thread). And if you don't want to see your Church pay taxes YOU need to act to stop their warring ways against people.

    Recently the Organization for African Unity and the UN task force headed by Stephen Lewis found the Catholic Church (and their double who were working to genocidally eliminate the Irish - the Anglicans) GUILTY of genocide. Not much new in that, this church used WMD viruses against the Native Americans (Wiped out hundreds of whole cultures and over 100 million cultured and advanced people in order to seize their assets.) and eliminated 70 million Europeans during the Plague.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-05-2015 at 01:44 PM.

  6. #16
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    Here is a reply to a good question - how can we get people past - my religion is better than your religion?

    That is a very good question. First of all I think I made a boo-boo. (I checked and saw I had not made a boo-boo.) We do not want to be away (!) from Divine Providential potential - we want to help G_d or whatever we decide is the name all people can agree is what they all already agree with, to harmonize.

    The concept is ecumenicism and even Catholic scholars are all for it - then the uppy-ups decide ecumenism means everyone has to join their lie or cult. As you say it is hard and many are they in science and what is called New Age who have floated that boat.

    So, step by step we make a plan. First step (If I may be so bold) is to get money flowing in to pay for this website. I would first have to think the best people here who actually study and try to get a grip on reality - would want to work for something that would be good.

    Then like VC you sell a book with the best posts. Maybe I give you a couple of books to update with the recent research from DNA that science proves our history has been a pack of lies. Or maybe you take a lot of the new research and start from scratch - I will help for as long as I can.

    Here are some suggestions The Holocaust from all sides -proof of a game we can end. It could be made into a movie or made for TV series. I can think of at least 100 such titles, movie ideas etc. But no one should want to make money until there is money already made - greed kills. Just keep the management that can see the big picture and trust them to be fair.

    I can easily imagine if all the divergent POVs here actually learned and agreed on the history that blames no one - it would spread through the conspiracy sites where many people have seen there is something missing cause everyone is pointing everywhere except at the real problem - IGNORANCE! The politicians don't want to discuss facts in many fields because of what you said - it is hard to get people working on the same page. The religions are afraid their uppy-ups will excommunicate them - as was done to Ivan Illich who in fact did what I am saying in conjunction with John McKnight - and built street level results that helped people and saved tax dollars.
    https://www.uvm.edu/~asnider/Ivan_Il...%20Illich).pdf

    Anyway - this is my dream - I have done a lot and it is worth it for the satisfaction of knowing my soul is not burdened with the karma of supporting BS. What you quoted from Clarke was made into a two part TV movie and he made it clear in that book that our mystics always knew what our science needed to develop. I can think of more than a dozen big name authors who would love to get on board if we actually could do something more than bitch, whine and point fingers at Jews, Nazis, banksters, Jesuits and other things equally as absurd. IN fact many of those groups would back such an effort. Humanity needs to be ecumenical and Mani knew this almost two millennia ago. Seneca and others also knew and tried with the Gracchi. But the web allows for viral acceptance if just a few good people work together with no greed or ego!

    Just showing that the word democracy is actually descriptive of Anarchy would be a good start.

    Contemporary Anarchist Studies: An Introductory Anthology ...

    https://books.google.ca/books?isbn=1134026439

    Randall Amster, ‎Abraham DeLeon, ‎Luis Fernandez - 2009 - ‎Political Science
    Chapter 12: Anarchic Epimetheanism: the pedagogy of Ivan Illich 1 2 I have ... while Freire's ecumenicism-from-below was more congruent with the work of ...
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-02-2016 at 11:27 PM.

  7. #17
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    A founder of the site has joined the convo.

    Dear N

    I had at least five forums which amalgamated people into one forum about ten years ago.

    There were two offers of a place to live and do this kind of thing, I personally invested $20,000 in a site called HOW (Heal Our World) and a publishing startup (It died because the woman doing much of the work wanted me to marry her,). We had a well known Philosophy site tie in as a sister site, a starting to a store and many good layers of design. I paid for her to attend a Radnor University forum with the likes of Blum who she sat with at many meetings. We had more prepared and a better web site (they all agreed, Prout was in their name and it had a true communistic bent) than their organization which had a building in Africa and the backing of the Chinese government (financially).

    Blum's book on American history had been called the best by Osama Bin Laden, it was a best-seller. I think he is a Georgetown Prof.

    The acronym HOW says how to make things better - by completion of EDUCATION. The best starting point would be ecumenicism I think.

    But I am moving to SE Asia and going to travel the world - who knows what adventures await?

    What you say in your post is true, generally; but I am sure the NDSAP types are easily brought together through genetic study - it was what drove the creation of the ethos - it was of course biased scholarship as Joseph Campbell broke it down person by idiotic academic. We now have so much more DNA mapping of the whole world. As the head of the Human Genome Project said (Collins - a prime Merovingian family) - "we have a history book in our genes."

    I pretty much already had the true history mapped out (Timelines and such included, but now it is far older and backed by DNA - forensics.).

    My experience is the religious BELIEVERS (some Nazis are nuts too) and those with ego (Ego is good to a point) issues will take more convincing, and the web is not likely to overcome those issues. I guess in five solid seventy hour a week years I converted a couple of true believers, but many opened their mind some and in time probably changed enough to say it does not matter what name you give the g_dforce; it is what YOU DO that counts with Logos.

    I applaud the open forum here, and I see some hope, or I would not have made such a truly ridiculous suggestion. The World-Mysteries forum already has the history and science framework and I welcome any and all to contribute their POV. Fruitcakes will find I inundate each silly assed point they make - I have defended the site for almost a year from alien and bible thumpers who had ruled and ruined it. It is a good educational site and the ad revenue probably makes enough for it's owner to live - it did six years ago, I know. But he is into the money, went through a divorce recently and is not likely going to do much to help such an effort. There is a freelance writer there who would definitely like to help.

    Again all your points are fact-based and because of that it will have to start small and build on solid principles. Please read We Can Change the World. It is a small book I sent to Branson and was up on Philip Gardiner's site. Branson did create The Elders I recommended with two of the people I recommended. I already covered this with Etranger in PMs. It is founded on the very ancient structure Hitler studied and which is the First Reich people call various names including Atlantis and Thule. The Council of Six King/Bairds was pan-tribal Brotherhood and the Great Pyramid of Iesa was built to enable it's connection of minds and possibly also to power much of a wireless society which technology again allows. One of my business incarnations was a development of alternative ISDN technology.

    Dear E

    There are no JEWS - racially. The faith has recently seen it's political arm in Israel stop paying the elite religious extreme element for what they have done. There are people of great insight and intellect on many sides of the issue who also want a way out of the fruitless dialectic, war and worse. DNA is pretty new - and it has made many have to re-consider their racial nonsense. Unfortunately for those who wanted to create a genetic bomb to wipe out their enemy it has been proven their enemy has their own genes. Dirty bombs and depleted uranium (Canada's contribution, as was Agent Orange) might allow a genetic tracker to target some with a virus in a generation or so.

    I have a friend in Jordan now, who is called The Fetch. He was so dead set against the elite Jews he called Noahdists and Jehovian. But in time he and I found common ground as I showed him history of a different sort. We agreed to disagree and found common ground. We traveled the web creating a very big stir for years! His gematria is powerful research. You might look into his site The Illuminatus Observer. When he was last in Canada he was attacked walking down the street and his Islamic supporters (Masons actually) felt it was a Mossad effort. I think that is why he has moved to Jordan, he was a former Hughes Aircraft person with research math and other credentials - his gematria will not easily be fully understood but his illustrations are very good. If you guys got six people working together and doing a video with Red Ice (He has been interviewed on and they have my article from 15 years ago called Education and the Computer - addressing the Antikythera etc.) I think I could get together with him in Jordan and bring some ass-kicking result funding wise, to the table. No matter where I am, I will do this for free.

  8. #18
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    For people who do not know how Rome got control of Good Acts and made buying your way into a mythical Heaven into the huge money-maker it still is you should read what Pelagius said. You will see there were different power centers inside Christianity as you read this, and you should know it was right around this time that Rome became more powerful as it fell to the Visigoths in terms of a secular state having some responsibility to take care of it's citizens. Henceforward the priesthoods got the rich rewards of deceit and power for their own designs.

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/...lagianism.html



    " In his [Honorius] time, the Briton Pelagius spread far and wide his noxious and abominable teaching that man had no need of God's grace, and in this he was supported by Julius of Campania, a bishop who resented his own recent deposition. Saint Augustine and other orthodox fathers quoted many thousand of Catholic authorities against them, but they refused to abandon their folly; on the contrary, their obstinacy was hardened by contradiction, and they refused to return to the true faith."

    So writes Bede in his Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum about the teachings of Pelagius, a Romano-British monk who flourished between the fourth and fifth centuries AD and taught that salvation could be attained through free will alone, without the redemption of divine grace. An ascetic, Pelagius was distressed by the moral laxity he witnessed in Rome and attributed it to the doctrine of predestination and divine grace promulgated by Augustine of Hippo, who, he felt, was too unforgiving in his insistence that man was tainted by original sin and, without baptism and the grace of God, could not be saved.

    Pelagius reasoned that, if one could not be held accountable for one's deeds and that salvation came only from bestowed grace, then there was no restraint from sin. Rather, he argued, man was a free moral agent, responsible for resisting evil and choosing good. Divine grace only facilitated the impulse to do so. Yet, in denying original sin and the redemptive power of divine grace, Pelagius called into question the necessity and efficacy of the sacrifice of Christ and, in asserting that the essence of religion was righteousness, diminished the tenets of faith and dogma.

    Pelagius left Rome, having lived there for many years, after it was sacked by the Visigoths in AD 410 and went first to North Africa, where he was confronted by Augustine, and then to Palestine, where he had the support of the bishop of Jerusalem to preach his doctrine. In protesting the helplessness of the individual confronting a predestined divine plan, Pelagianism very well may have been perceived as undermining the social acceptance of imperial and ecclesiastical authority, and permitting the demonstration of social and regional hostility to the Roman church."


    Bede and Ussher got well paid for their excellent myth making - to be sure.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-05-2016 at 10:03 AM.

  9. #19
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    And one of (if not the) most important thing in my book on Rennes and Saunière is Dominus Iesus (Iesa being the Brotherhood of Man which the Great pyramid was built to honour). Ecumenicism or the coming together of all religions is what this world must soon achieve if we are ever to address the issues including war and slavery (Including the treatment of women). Here is an analysis from academics or theologians http://www.cwrc-rz.org/analysisofdi.html.

    "Analysis of Dominus Iesus

    Brief History

    Many of you are now familiar with a flurry of ecumenical endeavours on the part of Catholic and Protestant churchmen. One document that recently caused lively debate is "Evangelicals and Catholics Together" (1994), a document signed by such leading Evangelicals as J.I. Packer and Charles Colson in which past differences between the divided communions were verbally minimized so that steps toward ultimate unity might be accomplished. Recently, the Vatican has responded to these ecumenical efforts, indirectly, with a document entitled "Declaration Dominus Iesus" (DI) (September 5, 2000) presented by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger {Later made Pope and a very bad cover-up artist of Pedophilia.} and approved by the "magisterium" of the Roman Church. This document outlines the direction in which Rome intends to proceed in ongoing dialogue with those outside the Roman Church. It re-affirms Rome's so called supremacy in matters of salvation, faith and practice. Timothy George, who is Dean of Beeson Divinity School at Samford University and the executive editor of Christianity Today, welcomes the document on the grounds that, "In an unusual way it is an encouragement to the kind of ecumenism we ought to be engaged in." As George goes on to explain, "In some ecumenical circles, the barometer of conviction has fallen so low that it no longer registers the temperature of truth." Clearly then, Dominus Iesus has presented itself with conviction and certainty.

    What then is the conviction that the document is seeking to express? The answer is the necessity mentioned by Paul in I Cor. 9:16, to preach the Gospel! (The Gospel here would not be what Paul, or we, would understand by the Gospel but rather how the Roman Catholic Church perceives the Gospel according to her own peculiar tenets). To quote from Para. 2 of DI, "This explains the Magisterium's particular attention to giving reasons for and supporting the evangelizing mission of the Church, above all in connection with the religious traditions of the world." In other words, the document is primarily addressed not to recent attempts at ecumenism but rather to a desire to confront modern society, awash in relativism, with the absolute claims of the Christ of the Roman Catholic Church. While recognizing faint glints of "truth" in other religions, the document claims that the full truth is confined to the Roman Church. It closes on this note, "We believe the one true religion continues to exist in the Catholic and Apostolic Church, to which our Lord Jesus Christ entrusted the task of spreading it among all the people."

    Now, no one can quarrel with the intent of the document, as Catholics are certainly entitled to their convictions and to challenge the world to examine them. As has been mentioned, the document says little about the status of present ecumenical endeavours and inter-church relationships. Further, we can be thankful for DI because it sets out in no uncertain terms how Rome perceives herself in relation to other religions and other Christian expressions. With no pretence at dissembling, Rome explicitly declares her estimation of other Christian Churches. Under the section heading "Unicity and Unity of the Church", DI states that,



    ...the Church of Christ, despite the divisions which exist among Christians, continues to exist fully only in the Catholic Church, and on the other hand, that 'outside of her structure, many elements can be found of sanctification and truth' (1) that is, in those Churches and ecclesial communities which are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church. But with respect to these, it needs to be stated that 'they derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church.

    The Athenians at Mars' Hill should have felt cheated, had this been true. Nonetheless, is this not what Rome has always taught?" And the answer is yes. While we may marvel at "the mystery of iniquity", we also marvel at how slow present day evangelicals are to admit the totalitarian nature of the Roman Church. The Roman Church has by and large made herself into a substitute for God. As B. B. Warfield puts it in his treatise, The Plan of Salvation,


    "In a word, the Church in this system is conceived to be Jesus Christ himself in his earthly form, and it is therefore substituted for him as the proximate object of the faith of Christians" (Warfield, 54).
    Warfield reminds us that in Catholic thought the God of salvation is largely deistic. He, God, has provided the means of salvation and then has given the whole matter of salvation over to the Church to offer salvation to all men through the mediatorial role entrusted to the Roman Catholic Church. The difference between Biblical Christianity and the Roman system needs to be clearly understood. In the Roman system salvation is found only through the mediation of the Church and the various things she has to offer for lost sinners. God has provided a way of salvation for all men but it is up to the Church to administer the means to as many men as she can reach. On the other hand, classic Protestantism in the form of pure evangelicalism, as Warfield so succinctly states, "...suspends the welfare of the soul directly, without any intermediaries at all, upon the grace of God alone."

    A failure to understand this fundamental difference will mean that all ecumenical talks will fail or Evangelicals will capitulate completely to Rome, which is Rome's avowed aim. The only other course would be for Rome to recognize its error and dismantle its whole superstructure, along with its vaunted claims, something that would be most unlikely.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-13-2016 at 12:47 PM.

  10. #20
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    How many people would it require to act and cause change? Is it possible for a crowd together in support of the true history and get cameras to spread a thought of Brotherhood which we could use the name Jesus to serve as a rallying point if we did it in the truth of the Jefferson Bible or words from Thomas Paine who not so long ago caused such an uprising without cameras? We could give Allah and Buddha their due in truth they all say the same thing.

    It might just happen some day, we might throw off the coils of religious indoctrination into Empire and mind controlling terror and torture of our women and children by demons and Armageddon. It also might not.

    Continuing this biased Gnostic account from Kabbalah which is derivative of the earlier discipline we should pay homage to.

    "These teachings of Jewish Gnosticism (coming from Egypt) were so similar to those of Pagan Gnosticism that many Jews claimed that the great Pagan philosophers had originally received their wisdom from Moses. This condition continued into the Middle Ages. The Zohar, believed written by Moses de Leon in 1305 C.E., claimed to draw on the secret teachings of Simeon Ben Yohai, a rabbi of Galilee in the second century C.E., which were in turn said to have been drawn from the hidden wisdom of Moses. The medieval flowering of Kabbalah in the south of France {Cathars are Gnostic and ecumenical - see my books) in the 13th century was inspired by Jewish Gnostic tradition that had somehow survived from the first centuries (G. Scholem, Origins Of The Kabbalah, 1987). This belief encouraged Jews to enthusiastically embrace the philosophy and mythology of the Pagan Gnostics to augment their own tradition, producing a Miarge number of spiritual treatises which synthesized Pagan and Jewish motifs.

    The spirituality of the Therapeutae and Essenes is an example of this mixture of Jewish and Pagan Gnosticism. As well as being followers of their own Jewish master Moses, they were also followers of the great Pagan philosopher Pythagoras {The Druid}, whose disciples had set up communities throughout the Mediterranean world. The Jewish historian Josephus informs us that the Essenes are comparable to the Pythagoreans (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 15.371). In creating the Gnostic Jesus Myth these Therapeutae-Essenes drew upon inter-testamental literature which had already been synthesized from Pagan and Jewish mythological motifs. These inter-testamental texts not only echo the Pagan Mysteries but also prefigures Christianity and by so doing forms a bridge between the two. For example motifs that prefigure Christianity are found in the Sibylline Oracles {Druidic priestesses} which look forward to the coming of "the Christ" and the Books of Enoch which anticipate the arrival of the "Son of Man" - a title that will be used to define Jesus in the New Testament.

    Philo, himself known as "the Pythagorean" (Josephus, The Jewish War, 2.8.10). Philo, himself a Pythagorean, describes the Therapeutae as practising "the contemplative life", which was a way of describing Pythagoreans (Clement of Alexandria, Clement of Alexandria, 1919, 1.15.72 and 2.19.100). Philo tells us their wisdom stems from Greece and that "this kind exists in many places in the inhabited world". The "contemplative life" is a term used to describe the life lived in the Pythagorean communities.

    Following the practice of the Cynic school of Pagan Gnosticism, these Jewish Gnostics called their spiritual tradition simply "the Way" - a term also adopted by the original Christians. "The Way" was a phrase used by Essenes, Cynics, and Christians to describe their faith (A. Ellegard, Jesus: One Hundred Years Before Christ, 1999, p. 167).

    Acts 9:2 2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. (KJV)

    Answer for yourself: Are these Therapeuate-Essene-Pythagorean-Jews the earliest Christians we read about in the Book of Acts? It sure would appear so!

    Partly due to Philo's writings, the fourth-century Christian Literalist historian Eusebius saw so many similarities between the Way of the Therapeutae and the Christian Way that he claimed the Therapeutae were amongst the first followers of Christ.

    Answer for yourself: But when did Philo write of these Therapeutae? Before or after Jesus of the New Testament times?

    Philo's description of the Therapeutae was written before the time that Jesus is supposed to have been teaching, so Philo is clearly NOT writing about disciples of an historical Jesus or a historical Messiah, as Eusebius believed. Ironically, Eusebius was probably right nevertheless, albeit in an entirely different way from how he intended. The Essenes and Therapeutae did not follow Jesus. They created him!

    The idea of some sect "making up" the Jesus myth may seem strange today, but this is because we no longer think of myths in the same way as our ancestors did. To us myths are irrelevant fantasies, but the ancients regarded "myths" as profound allegories encoding mystical teachings. Mythical motifs represented philosophical principles. They were an archetypal vocabulary {Memes are not new!} with which to think. Creating new myths was a way of exploring new ideas.

    Reworking old myths and syncretizing them to create new ones was a major preoccupation of the Gnostics. Philo tells us that the Therapeutae were devoted to "philosophizing and interpreting their ancestral scriptures allegorically, for they think that the words of the literal meaning are symbols of a hidden nature which is made plain only by the undermeaning" (Philo, De Sept, 3.4, quoted in W. Kingsland, The Gnosis, 1937, p. 28). Imaginative mythologizing is also what the later Christian Gnostics specialized in. One of their critics condemns them for using "allegorical interpretation" to freely "recompose" Jewish scriptures and "Greek epic mythology" (Epiphanius, Pan., 26.1.4), which are precisely the two sources used to create the myths of Jesus and the Goddess."


    http://firstnewtestament.com/earlies...e_essene_7.htm

    In the millennia before his focus the Gnosis was maintained throughout the Mediterranean in Hermetic teachings by intellectuals who studied Thoth/Hermes or Imhotep/Asklepios (Same system - one Greek - one Roman).

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