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Thread: ECT - a miracle cure

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Thumbs up ECT - a miracle cure

    A three part TV mini-series in Canada showed how good old people getting along in weaving classes and such had benefitted from MODERN ECT therapy. They said it was "like a pacemaker for the heart to re-start the brain's natural biorhythms" or some garbage which suggests they know enough about the brain to compare it with electrical neural supplementation in hearts. They had Dr. Cohen of Montreal appear and introduced him as an expert - which he is; then did not let him speak. It was a travesty and enraging to anyone who knows what they do and why they do it. You won't soon learn these things and I hope you never have to, but it will happen and you won't be able to stop it when it does happen. It isn't just a drugging for dollars campaign. BTW lobotomies are still performed although I don't think they use ice picks like Old Joe Kennedy got Dr. Freeman to do when his daughter started talking about things he did not want the public to hear (see A&E documentary).

    I know how people respond to intense and detailed literature being thrown at them in support of ideas they do not understand or even want to hear about. I have mentioned that old age is a target for drug abuse and invasive torture. That includes the cocktail of drugs that have been developed (Using human guinea pigs who weren't told squat) to make it so ECTs can burn random areas of the brain. It used to be possible for a victim to think about what the psychiatrists were doing and get those memories burned out of their brain.

    Thus I have to show you how they justify these terrible acts which if they did it to a colleague - no insurance provider would cover that colleague for malpractice insurance due to the damage done to the brain. Here is a specific argument they use which will allow any person over 70 who is starting to lose their memory or feel a little confused to be medicated and given ECTs (usually a battery of six separate events).

    "ECT has been effective in the treatment of catatonia,[31] neuroleptic malignant syndrome,[32] depression associated with Parkinson disease,[33, 34] pain,[35] particular cases of delirium,[36] and acute confusion psychosis.[37] It has also been effective in treating patients with intellectual disabilities who have treatment-resistant mood or psychotic disorders.[38]

    ECT may be useful in patients with major depressive disorder for whom medication or psychotherapy has not been effective in maintaining stability during the continuation phase.[19] ECT should be considered in patients whose condition has failed to respond to medication trials, individuals who have not tolerated indicated medications, or those who have previously shown a response to ECT.[9, 19] ECT also should be considered in patients with melancholic[39] and atypical[40] depression."

    Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to Lafayette in 1823 that went as follows:
    "I do not believe with the Rochefoucaults and Montaignes, that fourteen of fifteen men are rogue. I believe a great abatement from that proportion may be made in favor of general honesty. But I have always found that rogues would be uppermost, and I do not know that the proportion is to strong for the higher orders... These set out with stealing the people's good opinion, and then steal from them the right of withdrawing it by contriving laws and associations against the power of the people themselves."

    "… the archetypal Roman shouldered the White Man's Burden, the arduous but fabulously profitable task of governing those whom, despite all evidence to the contrary, the Romans judged incapable of governing themselves." (Lucy Hughes-Hallett from 'Cleopatra')

    "We have it in our power to begin the world over again." -- Paine, Common Sense, 1776.

    "I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country.
    As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed
    ." - President Abraham Lincoln, 1865

    Paracelsus may have induced the first therapeutic seizure in 1500 AD by using camphor pills or tablets.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-21-2015 at 09:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    If ECT could cure people of being brainwashed by Scientology I would say it is a miracle cure. I would probably support it's use on members of my family who are Scientologists with tattoos signifying they have signed a billion year soulful contract to stay in Scientology.

    It is my recollection that the Citizen's Committee on Human Rights (CCHR) is a Scientology feeder and outreach to get members and money. They do not want actual mental patient members nor do they try to help anyone. In fact their issues with psychiatry might have more to do with self-defence and getting members out of societal institutions seeking to de-program their sheep who they make mucho money from. The web site below has a mission statement without informing people they are connected to Scientology. Sometimes Scientology wins court cases against people who tried to expose them and then the Scientology people run the organization. It makes it easy for them to get information on members who they think are 'covert' or 'suppressives' who might have kids that they seek to keep as slaves or use as blackmail and a bargaining chip against others. I have a nephew in that very circumstance within that cult. This is a good statement of rights to consider against psychiatry and Scientology.

    "Every man, woman and child is entitled to the fundamental human rights set forth in this Mental Health Declaration of Human Rights, regardless of race, political ideology, religious, cultural or social beliefs. Given the fact that there are virtually no human or civil rights granted to those psychiatry deems mentally ill, that there are no medical or scientific tests to conclusively prove anyone is mentally ill, and that no guidelines exist to protect citizens from abuses being committed under the guise of mental health, thus allowing violations of their fundamental human rights, it is vital that the following rights be recognized and that all countries adopt this Declaration.

    A. The right to full informed consent, {This is where the law should get Scientology for practices beyond mere brainwashing or subliminal programming which they use along with hypnosis.} including:

    1. The scientific/medical test confirming any alleged diagnoses of psychiatric disorder and the right to refute any psychiatric diagnoses of mental “illness” that cannot be medically confirmed.
    2. Full disclosure of all documented risks of any proposed drug or mental “treatment.”

    3. The right to be informed of all available medical treatments which do not involve the administration of a psychiatric drug or treatment.

    4. The right to refuse any treatment the patient considers harmful.
    B. No person shall be forced to undergo any psychiatric or psychological treatment against his or her will.

    C. No person, man, woman or child, may be denied his or her personal liberty by reason of mental illness, so-called, without a fair jury trial by laymen and with proper legal representation.

    D. No person shall be admitted to or held in a psychiatric institution, hospital or facility because of their political, religious or cultural or social beliefs and practices.

    E. Any patient has:

    1. The right to be treated with dignity as a human being;

    2. The right to hospital amenities without distinction as to race, color, sex, language, religion, political opinion, social origin or status by right of birth or property.

    3.The right to have a thorough, physical and clinical examination by a competent registered general practitioner of one’s choice, to ensure that one’s mental condition is not caused by any undetected and untreated physical illness, injury or defect, and the right to seek a second medical opinion of one’s choice.

    4.The right to fully equipped medical facilities and appropriately trained medical staff in hospitals, so that competent physical, clinical examinations can be performed.

    5.The right to choose the kind or type of therapy to be employed, and the right to discuss this with a general practitioner, healer or minister of one’s choice."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-21-2015 at 10:02 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    And you must know there are people who can be duped into anything and say the nicest things about those who damage them. I worked trying to help a man who was the Poster Boy for ECTs. He told me he said whatever the psychiatrists wanted to hear. I think he needed attention and also told me what I wanted to hear - specifically he told them what he told them and others they told him to speak to, so they would not give him more torture. He had been given over 60 separate treatments for catatonic schizophrenia, over more than two decades. He still had periods of weird behaviour when we did not include him in social intimate discourses and games. I found him very engaging and helpful in helping other people too. The next link tells a very positive story. I have witnessed the treatments and I have also seen people hide in fear of treatments. I believe this person is telling truth as she knows it and I do think putting a person under before blasting their brain with electricity is a good improvement over what was done to my mother.

    "As you can see, what I have described to you is as far removed from torture as daisies are from poison ivy!

    If you want to know more about what happens while the patient is asleep, here is some authoritative information for you. {It was an active link promoting ECTs.}

    For me, ECT did something wonderful. It put my 'little chuff-chuff' back on its rails. It's as if my brain's internal cogs started to rotate again. My capacity to read, write and speak increased dramatically after ECT. I could function so much better."

    You will hear both sides of the argument if you want to read. Dr. Breggin co-authored a book with Dr. Cohen called The Pill May Be the Problem which I read and recommend highly. He and his wife launched a lawsuit against psychiatry which Scientology co-opted and which was quashed after Patriot Act II was made law (My recollection may be wrong you will have to check.).

    "Dr. Peter R. Breggin a psychiatrist from New York has been speaking out publicly against the use of electroshock for over 30 years. Dr. Breggin wrote an article in 2007 about ECT called “Disturbing News for Shock Doctors and Patients Alike” In his article at the URL:

    Breggin states that electroshock ECT always causes brain damage according to an ECT study that was done recently.

    See Dr. Breggin’s website at “” for lots of info on the adverse effects of electroshock and psychiatric drugs.

    See the website “” for lots of info.

    “Electroshock is violence”

    – said by Ramsey Clark, former US Attorney General and human rights advocate – invited address to the Annual Meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, New York City (May 1983)"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-10-2016 at 05:31 AM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I consider Scientific American to be a fair source with no axe to grind, generally. I might be na´ve and I have not checked into their ads or whether conglomerates who advertise with them own drug companies. Here is part of an article by them. By the Way - I generally don't like going to dentists although the last one I went to was good, the one before was a butcher.

    They did not address the destruction of brain cells in this article; it is a fact.

    "These advances have made ECT much safer and less frightening than it once was. In a 1986 survey of 166 patients who had received ECT, psychiatrists C.P.L. Freeman and R. E. Kendell of the University of Edinburgh found that 68 percent reported that the experience was no more upsetting than a visit to the dentist. For the others, ECT was more unpleasant than dentistry, but it was not painful.

    Still, the treatment is not hazard-free. In some countries, physicians deliver ECT much as they did in the pre-1950s era. In a 2010 review psychiatrist Worrawat Chanpattana of Samitivej Srinakarin Hospital in Bangkok and his colleagues found that 56 percent of patients across 14 Asian countries received ECT with no muscle relaxant or anesthetic. And ECT performed anywhere has some downsides. Patients typically emerge from a session temporarily disoriented. More seriously, most patients experience retrograde amnesia afterward: they no longer remember many events that occurred a few weeks to months before the treatment. The loss is less pronounced when electrodes are placed on one side of the head rather than on both. And recent technologies, including brief-pulse machines that permit the electricity doses to be carefully calibrated, minimize the extent of the amnesia. But some memory problems virtually always accompany the procedure. In addition, some studies hint that ECT can in rare cases lead to lasting cognitive deficits beyond the limited retrograde amnesia, although the data backing this possible outcome are far from definitive.

    Mysterious Mechanisms
    Given its adverse effects on memory, patients should consider ECT only after other treatments have failed. Yet the bulk of research suggests that ECT can be effective at alleviating the symptoms of several mental illnesses, including severe depression and the manic phase of bipolar disorder. It also seems to ease catatonia, a condition marked by striking movement abnormalities, such as remaining in a fetal position or gesturing repeatedly, that may accompany schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

    The case for the intervention would be even stronger if researchers could determine why it works. According to a 2011 review, psychiatrist Tom Bolwig of Copenhagen University Hospital noted that ECT increases the secretion of certain hormones that are disturbed in depression. Others have suggested that the electricity stimulates neural growth and helps to rebuild brain areas that are protective against depression. A third idea is that the seizures themselves fundamentally reset brain activity in ways that often bring relief, Bolwig concludes.

    ECT may also ameliorate illness by altering the sensitivity of receptors for neurotransmitters, such as serotonin [see “Is Depression Just Bad Chemistry?” by Hal Arkowitz and Scott O. Lilienfeld; April/May 2014]. None of these hypotheses, however, has yet to garner convincing research support. As we learn more about this widely misunderstood intervention, we may be able to refine our delivery methods and reduce ECT's negative effects. Even in its current form, however, the treatment is a far cry from the barbaric punishment portrayed in the media. Hence, it is often worth considering as an option for unremitting psychological distress after all else has failed."

    If a doctor gets this treatment his insurer will not cover him in surgery or any delicate matter.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-21-2015 at 10:27 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    A friend I have discussed the issues above with sent me this after a couple of long-winded exchanges.

    "Read this

    It's an article I read a couple of years ago in the globe and mail."

    Quoting the article we have:

    "The chances of a patient winning a medical malpractice lawsuit against a doctor in Canada are slim, according to a new book entitled After the Error: Speaking Out About Patient Safety to Save Lives.

    The book, put together by microbiologist Susan McIver and retired nurse Robin Wyndham, contains a collection of stories about patients who said they suffered from medical errors while being treated in the health-care system. Citing various studies, the authors say these mistakes contribute to between 38,000 and 43,000 deaths in Canada each year and many more individuals suffer serious harm.

    One chapter, by Halifax lawyer John McKiggan, focuses on the ability of patients to obtain financial compensation through the courts. He writes that every medical error, known as an “adverse event,” is a potential malpractice case. Although exact numbers are hard to come by, McKiggan estimates that medical errors could theoretically generate over 100,000 lawsuits every year. Yet relatively few errors result in litigation. From 2005 to 2010, only 4,524 lawsuits were filed against Canadian doctors. During that five-year period, 3,089 claims were dismissed or abandoned “because the court dismissed the claim or the victim or the victim’s family quit, ran out of money or died before trial,” according to McKiggan.

    And out of 521 cases that went to trial, only 116 led to a judgment that favoured the patient. And the median damage awarded was just $117,000, he noted."

    My brother fought a lawyer malpractice case for over 25 years. It ended about five years ago. Papering over is the name of the game as they drive up your costs and employ the insurance company they own (That is also a conflict of interest as far as I am concerned.) and made errors there which caused a continuation of the original lawsuit due to conflicts of interest and his lawyer's and arbitrators having to withdraw. He spent about a million and 40 hours a week (yes, for every year). An expert he had paid his LA lawyer to bring aboard never got the money - that lawyer was a cocaine addict and stole the money out of a trust. He could have sued that law firm and won a lot easier case.

    The doctors sue their own and bring charges against them all the time. Just being taken off the medical rolls can end a career. Good luck getting an expert witness which the courts require. Most forensic medical witnesses are also lawyers or are at least fellow members of some organization.

    In Canada all the legislators seem to have been lawyers - maybe 88% at one time. THAT is also a conflict of interest. Although lawyers are allowed to take cases on contingency - it does not happen very often in Canada. But in the case of my sister-in-law getting the first recorded case of West Nile and the class action suit she could have joined which my brother wanted her to do. She needed every ounce of energy to beat the disease - which amazingly she did. How many people could put in the time to be in court and fight such a case?
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-24-2015 at 03:56 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Should you ever feel anxious and confused it might serve you well to remember these few words.

    Dan Millman and Wayne Dyer both draw upon the writings of Carlos Castaneda whose guru was a Toltec (Druid) named Don Juan. The Druids and gymnosophists are very similar and might even be of the same root philosophy and region. Yoga is attributable to the gymnosophists. I like how Dan writes in The Way of the Peaceful Warrior, which reminds me of Carlos' Impeccable Warrior who has to lose himself to know what he is. The Mayan saying goes "Do not put yourself in front of your SELF."

    From "The Way of the Peaceful Warrior" Book by Dan Millman

    "You are a very nervous fish, fleeing every large ripple . Later, you became used to the ripples but still had no insight into their cause. You can see that a magnificent leap of awareness is required for fish to extend the vision beyond the water in which it is immersed to the source of the ripples.

    A similar leap of awareness is required of you. When you understand the source clearly, you'll see that the ripples of your mind have nothing to do with you; you'll watch them, without attachment, no longer compelled to overreact every time a pebble drops. You will be free of the world's turbulence as soon as you calm your thoughts. Remember - when you are troubled, let go of your thoughts and deal with your mind."

    To listen to modern psychiatrists talk about the ECT or burning of brain cells and memory you might think it was useful and healthy with good intent. It was designed to make a soldier return to the horror show of the first world war trenches. Specifically as a torture to make them not want to avoid killing people or experiencing the constant threat of death including being shot by your own officers when and if you refused to run into machine gun fire. Actually sometimes they just picked random soldiers from the brigade or regiment which had not followed orders and shot these innocents. If a psychiatrist gets this so-called therapy his insurance will no longer be in force because it affects the mental acumen and probably also illustrates the sadistic or masochistic intent of the recipient.

    Here is part of a report given by Freud to a commission which asked for his expertise in the matter of wartime mental issues or what we called PTSD today.

    "What is known as the psycho-analytic school of psychiatry, which was brought into being by me, had taught for the last twenty-five years that the neuroses of peace could be traced back to disturbances of emotional life. This explanation was now applied quite generally to war neurotics. We had further asserted that neurotic patients suffered from mental conflicts and that the wishes and inclinations which were expressed in the symptoms were unknown to the patients themselves- were, that is to say, unconscious. It was therefore easy to infer that the immediate cause of all war neuroses was an unconscious inclination in the soldier to withdraw from the demands, dangerous or outrageous to his feelings, made upon him by active service. Fear of losing his own life, opposition to the command to kill other people, rebellion against the ruthless suppression of his own personality by his superiors-these were the most important affective sources on which the inclination to escape from war was nourished.

    A soldier in whom these affective motives were very powerful and clearly conscious would , if he was a healthy man, have been obliged to desert or pretend to be ill. Only the smallest proportion of war neurotics, however, were malingerers; the emotional impulses which rebelled in them against active service and drove them into illness were operative in them without becoming conscious to them. They remained unconscious because other motives, such as ambition, self-esteem, patriotism, the habit of obedience and the example of others, were to start with more powerful until, on some appropriate occasion, they were overwhelmed by the other, unconsciously-operating motives.

    This insight into the causation of the war neuroses led to a method of treatment which seemed to be well-grounded and also proved highly effective in the first instance. It seemed expedient to treat the neurotic as a malingerer and to disregard the psychological distinction between conscious and unconscious intentions, although he was known not to be a malingerer. Since his illness served the purpose of withdrawing him from an intolerable situation, the roots of the illness would clearly be undermined if it was made even more intolerable to him than active service. Just as he had fled from the war into illness, means were now adopted which compelled him to flee back from illness into health, that is to say, into fitness for active service. For this purpose painful electrical treatment was employed, and with success."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-31-2016 at 07:42 PM.

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