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Thread: Hi iSal

  1. #11
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    I created a new thread under paranormal addressing this Old Gaelic Order. Yes, you are correct and know it is like the Gnostic stuff or Romanized Christianity.

    Yes, any words are really conventions of meaning attributed by some elite and not any more accurate than sign language or even as accurate. When running signs together there is much less grayness even though it should be less precise because words are so numerous. Would that be Mr. Dylan's message?

    I put the new thread under paranormal in case you want to get into more detail on MacDari's "direct cognition" and why Christians under Rome know so little of the great meaning in the knowledge - there to be had. You could start with his quotes on the seated people in Pews of the Church.

    Druidry really is all about science and our spiritual connections or the ether - and how much there was known - so any person can say any kind of 'telepathy' was there in it. The telepathy or empathy with plants, animals and trees or mountains -etc. Gaia or the Earth Mother figures like the Berekhat Ram you recently dredged up - precedes Druidry, or morphed into it. So we really should start putting time frames alongside certain discourses or we will be accused of fabrication and lies. I suggest we could discuss what existed:

    a) before a million years ago.
    b) between that and five hundred thousand years
    c) between that and 100,000
    d) from there to the Carolina Bays event of 8350 BCE

    Then it gets difficult because some survivors kept secrets and writing systems made it ever easier to fool sheep.

  2. #12
    Hello Mr. Baird,

    Yes, any words are really conventions of meaning attributed by some elite and not any more accurate than sign language or even as accurate. When running signs together there is much less grayness even though it should be less precise because words are so numerous. Would that be Mr. Dylan's message?
    I imagine Mr. Dylan is important to me - as your Ogham mentor, (not certain, if this is the same individual, Philip Glenn Whalen (20 October 1923 – 26 June 2002, the poet, going to guess not, but still another interesting person) and the above is like a trick question because how do we know what another person actually means (message) in their lyrics, poems, books, and artwork. It is all open to individual interpretation. Conducive to learning is building upon knowledge and understanding nothing is stagnant but always changing. What is thought today may not be what is thought tomorrow and in the case of Dylan, he wrote the lyrics years ago. Thus, who knows what he thinks or means, except him. It is merely my or your interpretation. These avenues are more like building blocks because when others label or identify strictly with another persons ideology, it diminishes individual growth that is why I (we) have had these discussions about why we do not necessarily agree with any authors content in an entire book. Nor would we encourage or expect anyone else to agree with us and why thumpers demanding others to adhere to their scripture quotes (etc) without questions and put aside the concept of the importance of using any critical - rational thinking skills becomes irrational. It all goes back to that quote included under the William Walker Atkinson thread about no-one having a monopoly on knowledge.

    After reading this book, King Solomon's Goat by Willard Bartlett, the other day written back in 1918 (yes, sometimes old books are just as insightful as new ones - but again merely building blocks), I would suggest to anyone that stumbles across this thread to take the time to read this book or at least skim through it. The author, Bartlett went through the history on the dogmas of various religions and theologies. Now, it is not crucial or the point to agree or disagree with his intent but to understand the importance of never diminishing our own individual self-worth is a lesson to take into consideration and build upon.

    Do not allow them to palm off any gods upon you. Do not allow anyone to assume authority over you. I charge you to teach your descendants these things from father to son, down through the clanging corridors of time, down through the endless vista of eternity. There is nothing but matter in the universe, and all matter is equal. This being so, all forms produced therefrom, whether visible or invisible, must be equal, and one form has no right to assume authority over another. All beings are composed of matter, be they gods or be they worms, and no one mass of matter is superior to another or worthy of worship. The worm that crawls the earth is the equal of the king that sits upon a throne. Never bow the knee to anything that walks or swims or flies, that lives in the flesh or that exists only in the diseased imagination of depraved religious fanatics. Remember this: There is none greater than you in Heaven or Earth or Hell.
    Going back to Dylan (for a moment), would like to explain why he is my troubadour because it goes beyond my interpretation of the lyrics in his songs. Although would like to address the masses that get stuck in the accusations that he did not write all of his lyrics. Would behoove anyone to look into the history of folk song writers (Appalachian Mountains is a good start, but can go beyond this point in history - actually just read an old folk story book, Troubadour Tales by Evaleen Stein 1903. One of the short tales, THE PAGE OF COUNT REYNAURD - HOW HE EARNED THE FAVOR OF KING RENÉ AND WON A SILVER CUP FOR CLEVERNESS IN THE LATIN TONGUE contains a valuable little life lesson about how to maintain your sense of humor and dignity...). Nor should one overlook the history of Tin Pan Alley.

    My point is that one should not become close-minded and remain focused on the lyrics in a song, the words in a poem/book, or the picture on a canvas at merely face value, but take the time to look into how or why the author/artist came to this point. Of course, this all goes back to the need to comprehend that culture does play a role, but not getting into that debate/discourse again, right now. When I "study" the lyrics found in Dylan's songs the beauty for me is looking at what influenced him (or at least what I perceive to be what interested him as provided though his interviews) - these are the building blocks. Yet, still must mention - it goes beyond "studying" the content of songs - it is more a form of "direct cognition". I could go into the musical notes, but that is off topic of my point, right now.

    To get a grasp on what I am saying (and I direct this not so much at you, Mr. Baird, but to others that attempt to dismiss Dylan in sensationalized articles by including his name to make a point without due consideration), here is one little example of Dylan's persona perceived - interpretation by Sean Wilentz in his book, “Bob Dylan in America”. I actually do not usually read books about Dylan by other authors, for me personally it takes away rather vs adding to my connection, previous interviews by Dylan are more enjoyable/insightful; nonetheless, the New Yorker published chapter 2 Penetrating Aether: The Beat Generation and Allen Ginsberg’s America in his book, including the link for others interested in understanding the depth vs shallowness of Dylan's intelligence found in his lyrics.

    Of course, Ginsberg is an obvious choice to use as an example and he does not particularly interest me (but - yes do know - have studied his persona and the whole connection between the Beats,hipsters, and folk artists - anyone not familiar would gain more insight into history by doing so, too), but Wilentz inclusion of the description word Aether in this chapter title is interesting.

    Aether
    Metaphysics and mythology
    aether (classical element), the material supposed to fill the region of the universe above the terrestrial sphere
    Aether (mythology) was the personification of the "upper sky", space and heaven, in Greek mythology
    Science and engineering
    aether theories in alchemy, natural philosophy, and early modern physics that suppose a "fifth element"
    luminiferous aether, in late nineteenth century physics considered to be the medium through which light propagates
    ether, a class of chemical compounds, or specifically
    What is more relevant to me (personally) is the inclusion of descriptive quotes; such as,

    ... Pulled together, the lines would form part of what Dylan called the “chain of flashing images”

    From now on, I want to write from inside me … for it to come out the way I walk or talk.” Combined with a renewed attachment to Rimbaud, which he had affirmed to his friends months earlier, Dylan’s dedication to writing from within—to capturing what Ginsberg had called, nearly twenty years earlier, “the shadowy and heterogeneous experience of life through the conscious mind”—placed him within the orbit of the Beats’ spontaneous bop prosody....

    ... strong metaphors replace similes; sight and sound uncannily merge in the flashing chimes; and a simple story of a couple crouching in a doorway turns into a hail-ripped carillon—and a song of tender empathy as well, far outside the old politics of left and right, black and white....
    The quotes above are building blocks. For example, one comes across the name of a poet, Arthur Rimbaud (1854–1891). There is so much I could say about Rimbaud but that would be merely my interpretation. For one to gain insight and any growth - knowledge, this adventure is left up to you to journey. For reference this website. Rimbaud, includes his letters/documents, collections of poems, pictures, etc.

    The Poetry Foundation includes a biography on Rimbaud, well worth the read, especially the inclusion on his description and insight into linguistics.

  3. #13
    Tying this all back into this thread and the subject of interpretation and change. Hmm misplaced the exact link on Rimbaud wanted to include. Regardless, I will tie this into MacDari's "direct cognition" and "his quotes on the people seated in Pews of the Church".

    This is the very idea embodied in the ancient Irish church service of the Mass, which has been adopted by Rome but never explained to the congregations which sit in her church pews. They are all unconscious of its true meaning and purport. Therefore, they cannot be a party to it.
    I could go into celibacy, but IMHO, it goes beyond. In reference to the AS ABOVE - SO BELOW, it is the issue of comprehending the connection and separation between our essence - ether - etc. - our attachment(s).

    The thumpers thumping dogma in a threatening, demeaning, illusive manner, setting themselves apart from the congregation - more or less above the servants below have no intention to lead anyone to any worthwhile knowledge. The intent is disconnect vs connection by preaching there is no direct cognition except through the Church. Same goes for mathematical formulas, linguistics, etc etc etc.

    Which leads me to the website link, posted under The Old Gaelic Order. Yes - that is the one I was looking over when I asked those questions and as you point out, (and we discussed to a limited degree in the past - Senchus Mor - why indeed would anyone feel the need to tamper with old documents!

    Now allow me to please switch gears for a moment, as I just read your new thread, Challenging Baird - Plato did not exist, along with the link to the original discussion, did-the-ancient-chinese-make-contact-with-native-americans. This could easily go back to one of our past discussion about Native American ancestry ( I shall pull these up and post here eventually - as does tie in).
    But what interests me at present is this

    When you ask a poster
    Now maybe you can prove Plato and the Corpus are connected - they are; because Plato is an alchemist.
    And poster responds
    Alchemy had its birth no earlier that about 1400 AD, not 2500+ years ago, lol.
    Actually, I am laughing at the posters laughter to be so naive to actually think that alchemy dates in the AD.

    For goodness sake, Mr. Baird, do not get yourself banned from this forum, this thread is much too entertaining to become discontinued. I shall follow along.

    BTW
    Yes, good idea for us to be setting dates to events.

    Best Regards,
    Sal

    Oh, and my Dylan quote for the day is directed towards the mentality the laughing hypocrites.

    Positively 4th Street by Bob Dylan

    Yes, I wish that for just one time
    You could stand inside my shoes
    You’d know what a drag it is
    To see you
    P.S.

    I wonder what this means?
    Comment from your blog article, Natural Healing – Tiller, Robins and Bruce Lipton

    Jason says
    November 8, 2015 at 11:19 pm

    Permission experience on the channels of expressive health and healing.
    Last edited by iSal; 11-09-2015 at 01:59 PM.

  4. #14
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    Dear Sal

    That is indeed a wonderful appraisal of what MacDari means as well as why he thought all Masons (almost) were "alehouse denizens". But clearly far more in the case of the thumpers. But how can one talk in forums like these with people who have not studied or read - him or those like him. Even worse is the situation you go on to illustrate when people accept the utter lies about alchemy or Ogham and so forth.

    On other forums I have seen apparent intelligent people say something similar to that guy who admits he is sick and fevered. I cannot argue with that fool - there is no sport in beating on people who are THAT deluded! Maybe if he actually says something that does not prove himself wrong in the very next paragraph it would be worth setting the record straight.

    I had the exact same alchemy type discussion on Post Flaviana with the owner. They had a guy arguing JFK did not die in Dallas!!!!

    Is there another line in that Dylan song that says "To BE you". I always sang it that way. It really is a drag to BE me in these nonsensical social exchanges - and the more I know the worse it gets. My father had a lot more knowledge compared to most people - and he had more patience when I knew him (Leo born get more patience as they age).

    In the case of Jason - I guess he has another mother tongue and he makes attempts to act smart just like the guy at Paracast - all ego issues.

    Being that you understand so well about the Mass ritual as MacDari explains it I don't think you need much of my input on the Old Gaelic Order either. I am so glad you get IT!!!!

    Believe me there are times when I think I need a lobotomy to lose all this knowledge - in order to just get by in our present society. And I do not expect it will be much better in SE Asia except that I know I will enjoy just helping people speak the language they all want to learn - or hear about how nice their situation is not having the god 'manna' or is it Mammon; as the main goal or aspiration.

  5. #15
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    Your post on the "beat" generation back to the Communards and Rimbaud deserves a separate thread. I am not your teacher in this regard though I have some reasons to call myself a hippie and loved a lot that went on just before my era as I read about the Catskills when Joseph Campbell and others encouraged the likes of Alan Watt and Woody Guthrie.

    I like what Rimbaud had to say about words.

    I dreamed of Crusades, voyages of discovery that nobody had heard of, republics without histories, religious wars stamped out, revolutions in morals, movements of races and continents: I used to believe in every kind of magic.

    I invented colors for the vowels! - A black, E white, I red, O blue, U green. - I made rules for the form and movement of every consonant, and I boasted of inventing, with rhythms from within me, a kind of poetry that all the senses, sooner or later, would recognize. And I alone would be its translator.

    I began it as an investigation. I turned silences and nights into words. What was unutterable, I wrote down. I made the whirling world stand still.


    If that Philip Whelan was born in Ireland (Cork) I would say it was the same man - especially if he lived in LA. His name was anglicized to Whelan - it was originally O'Faillon. He once met with the production people for the moon rover and told them how to make a reticulating curved armature work - which was employed. He said he could partially de-materialize. We 'tripped' on each other.

    I just searched your Whelan - not my Ogham mentor but very much the kind of many who made me love California. San Francisco is like a visit through time and space every time I have been there. The Gardens and trees near Golden Gate and the Exposition center site - meld into the Wharf > and as night falls all heaven breaks loose!
    Last edited by R_Baird; 11-09-2015 at 03:23 PM.

  6. #16
    Thanks for the compliment, Mr. Baird.

    Oh, the "dude" arguing about history mentioned at the top of your thread, Challenging Baird - Plato did not exist might want to get some more rest because his analysis on alchemy reminds me of a quote I found on another blog... in a small (mostly wiki copied) exert about Zosimos of Panopolis


    The fallen angels taught the art of metallurgy to the women they married.

    The external processes of metallic transmutation—the transformations of lead and copper into silver and gold—had always to mirror an inner process of purification and redemption.
    because he keeps saying he is going to tie this all in ... but thus far nothing ... just keeps going back to the idea that historical written records and events are in the AD stressing

    ... metallic tin was NOT known during the Bronze Age (bronze is an alloy of copper and tin, so ya need to know about metallic tin to actually make bronze)
    And I only needed to mention and present the basic concept of Fomenko's theory (not argue it or try to prove it), for I tie it into the paranormal stuff over here I still haven't gotten to yet. Nobody has to subscribe to, or even read, the theory, just simply know it is out there and that I subscribe to it, so when I talk about this (North America) being Ophir and King Solomon of the Bible actually being Sulieman the Magnificent, etc., they understand where that is coming from and that I am not simply pulling it out of my rear end. That's all.
    Interesting it suits "the dude" to use this historical data to support this theory because the basis of his theory goes back to falsified history... but does not want to go into the whole idea of backing up the thousands of pages read.

    Although, he might benefit from a course is critical thinking skills to take note of some of this quotes by his "troubadour" because it was apparent a few descriptive words popped up in his source quotes...

    The general observation
    overwhelming majority
    allegedly superseded
    a partial forgery
    almost all of the known
    In most cases
    Hey, I can appreciate that "the dude" leaves it for others to use or not use as building blocks.

    Here is what I built upon his gibberish....

    He is simply a treasure hunter in the material realm.

    From the lyrics to High Water by Bob Dylan

    High water risin' - risin' night and day
    All the gold and silver are being stolen away
    Big Joe Turner lookin' East and West
    From the dark room of his mind
    He made it to Kansas City
    Twelfth Street and Vine
    Nothing standing there
    High water everywhere
    And yeah the other verse you ask about....

    Is there another line in that Dylan song that says "To BE you". I always sang it that way. It really is a drag to BE me in these nonsensical social exchanges - and the more I know the worse it gets. My father had a lot more knowledge compared to most people - and he had more patience when I knew him (Leo born get more patience as they age).
    Verse proceeding the one I quoted
    Positively 4th Street by Bob Dylan

    I wish that for just one time
    You could stand inside my shoes
    And just for that one moment
    I could be you
    Yes, Leo's and patience. You are fortunate for you relationship and knowledge gained from your father.

    Your new adventure in SE Asia and the satisfaction of helping others learn English - wonderful. Hmm do you speak Khmer? Or French? Imagine you do speak French being from Canada... After looking over a few images of Siem Reap, noticed quite a few signs in English, too.

    Speaking of traveling - never been to SE Asia, but have been to Canada (seeings that it borders right next to Michigan). Nor made it out to California - my first stop there would be the trees! My retirement destination is back to Colorado - enjoyed the five years living there.

    Oh, you mention the Catskills Mountains in NY, yes it is quite beautiful. Actually went to see a Dylan concert up there (lol) and no it was not the famed Woodstock - he did not play at that concert - but years later he played there - and saw that one.... So spent the day up in the mountains going to old time flea markets and visiting old towns - since I have family that settled in that area upon immigrating....

    Yeah, did not think it was the same Whelan ....

    Aha, you bring up Woody Guthrie... that is who Dylan wanted to meet first (?) - and he did - one of his "troubadours"?
    Well, I, too, met my troubadour, Dylan... maybe I shall share that encounter .... nah.

    BTW
    Lovely insertion you provide on Rimbaud, you caught the essence perfectly.

    AND went over to check out the responses over with the skeptics, alas, the point is proven for many to be true. Not much discussion on the idea about the need to feel acceptable but a majority of comments about how they do not personally accept you.

    Note - include the words not much, many and majority.

    Regards, Sal
    Last edited by iSal; 11-13-2015 at 10:08 PM.

  7. #17
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    The history guy using whatever he wants and never actually making a real argument is beyond the pale of simple ignorance. And he admits he has issues with health that I have to think have impacted his ability to think. I really do not want to beat up those who are sufferers of issues like he has. Hopefully he will read some of the books I provided so he will see I know Manetho's lies and much more. What makes me cringe is how people get a guru and then misquote and warp the meanings to suit their own stupid ideas - as you say lacking critical thinking skills. Just cause the guy went to university or has a brain does not mean he used that brain.

    I have won the day with so many who went all the way through the schools (and was elected to a Master's Programme oversight committee by other students). My first major fellow researcher had his Honour's degree in Classical History and he had to admit I knew more than he or any of his professors knew. His favorite professor told him if he wanted to actually DO something good in the field he should quit school. Needless to say when I point these things out I am called arrogant or a narcissist.

    That leads to the other new site you refer to - fortunately there are people there who are not dogmatists and even if they do the lynch mob routine some will learn.

    I am not sure you got the MANy thing I left regarding your Whelan.

    Siem Reap or many other places I may travel - might not use all I could give but will I learn to take? Never been much good at taking.

    I can imagine you laughing at some of what goes on - sometimes I do too.

  8. #18
    I am not sure you got the MANy thing I left regarding your Whelan.
    Ah, perhaps a little flippant in last response, evasive, or simply skipped over your point about Whelan.
    Certainly, it takes time to digest some topics and take more heed to the words used to express.
    To be as eloquent and perceptive as Alfred North Whitehead - alas not at that level.

    (Yes, appears you have found a receptive platform for some enjoyable discourse.)

    Now reading two of his books

    #1 THE CONCEPT OF NATURE

    Language is usually ambiguous and it is rash to make general assertions as to its meanings. But phrases which commence with ‘this’ or ‘that’ are usually demonstrative, whereas phrases which commence with ‘the’ or ‘a’ are often descriptive. In studying the theory of propositional expression it is important to remember the wide difference between the analogous modest words ‘this’ and ‘that’ on the one hand and ‘a’ and ‘the’ on the other hand.
    The above quote is huge for me to dissect.

    #2 INTRODUCTION TO MATHEMATICS

    VARIABLES
    Mathematics as a science commenced when first someone, probably a Greek, proved propositions about any things or about some things, without specification of definite particular things
    THE ABSTRACT NATURE OF MATHEMATICS

    The reason for this failure of the science to live up to its reputation is that its fundamental ideas are not explained to the student disentangled from the technical procedure which has been invented to facilitate their exact presentation in particular instances. Accordingly, the unfortunate learner finds himself struggling to acquire a knowledge of a mass of details which are not illuminated by any general conception. Without a doubt, technical facility is a first requisite for valuable mental activity: we shall fail to appreciate the rhythm of Milton, or the passion of Shelley, so long as we find it necessary to spell the words and are not quite certain of the forms of the individual letters. In this sense there is no royal road to learning. But it is equally an error to confine attention to technical processes, excluding consideration of general ideas. Here lies the road to pedantry
    It is worth while to spend a little thought in getting at the root reason why mathematics, because of its very abstractness, must always remain one of the most important topics for thought.
    ... a good subject to consider in order to discover, if possible, the most obvious characteristic of the science. Now, the first noticeable fact about arithmetic is that it applies to everything, to tastes and to sounds, to apples and to angels, to the ideas of the mind and to the bones of the body. The nature of the things is perfectly indifferent, of all things it is true that two and two make four. Thus we write down as the leading characteristic of mathematics that it deals with properties and ideas which are applicable to things just because they are things, and apart from any particular feelings, or emotions, or sensations, in any way connected with them. This is what is meant by calling mathematics an abstract science.
    Reading the above helps in grasping the next quote from The Concept of Nature

    This is surely a muddle. The whole being of substance is as a substratum for attributes. Thus time and space should be attributes of the substance. This they palpably are not, if the matter be the substance of nature, since it is impossible to express spatio-temporal truths without having recourse to relations involving relata other than bits of matter. I waive this point however, and come to another.
    It is not the substance which is in space, but the attributes. What we find in space are the red of the rose and the smell of the jasmine and the noise of cannon. We have all told our dentists where our toothache is. Thus space is not a relation between substances, but between attributes.
    Part II in next post because I do have a point - lol

    P.S.

    Correction to last post -
    Dylan does not open his current set list with High Water - Actually Things Have Changed

    Mr. Jinx and Miss Lucy, they jumped in the lake
    I’m not that eager to make a mistake

  9. #19
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    You should post this stuff on Whitehead here under his thread so that I can simply link people to what you say about his books.

    Others have gone on with his "attributes" versus actual physicality - Deepak is one. But it was all there in Plato's First Cause or matter a long time before even his work (earlier stuff destroyed on purpose).

    Your quote on or from Dylan is preceded by his struggles with apocalyptic nonsense in Christianity - but also a big truth about our society and people who never really care - which he always has.

    People are crazy and times are strange
    I’m locked in tight, I’m out of range
    I used to care, but things have changed

    I hurt easy, I just don’t show it
    You can hurt someone and not even know it
    The next sixty seconds could be like an eternity
    Gonna get low down, gonna fly high
    All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie
    I’m in love with a woman who don’t even appeal to me



    Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/songs/thi...#ixzz3rOp3AUc7

  10. #20
    Now, the above quotes may turn into too much of a wall of text - any even be considered to be like be like "Scraps of Information" as described by Whitehead when

    He addressed the Mathematical Association of England with his ‘’ The Aims of Education’ in 1916 and brought out the book with the same name in 1929. In this book and in his address Whitehead discussed and greatly criticised the existing teachers in Great Britain who neither cared for their culture nor for the students’ self-education. In his popular speech Whitehead had said, “Culture is activity of thought, and receptiveness to beauty and humane feeling. Scraps of information have nothing to do with it”.
    yet in the context of all the quotes, lies the difference - or the balance to use (act upon) both mind and thought (as well as the importance of culture).

    .
    ..In such a case the terminus of the sense-awareness is something for mind, but nothing for thought. The sense-perception of some lower forms of life may be conjectured to approximate to this character habitually. Also occasionally our own sense-perception in moments when thought-activity has been lulled to quiescence is not far off the attainment of this ideal limit.
    For me, this is the context of what so many writers talk about as an essential attribute to meditation and it is also experienced in the midst of solving an equation.

    =======

    Siem Reap or many other places I may travel - might not use all I could give but will I learn to take? Never been much good at taking.
    In your future travels - wise to remember (as I know you already know) sometimes it is those "little moments - exchanges" in life that have a profound imprint. Taking and receiving another balancing act. To do neither stunts growth and knowledge. Anyways could go into a whole discussion about arrogance or a narcissist - no not calling you either. lol Oh yeah, laughter is good.

    Also, as a world traveler, you already know, the benefit of experiencing different cultures (and the prevalent myths - kind of goes back to the discussion under the thread, Natural Healing and Megalithic Connections and the paper, NORTHROP FRYE AND THE PHENOMENOLOGY OF MYTH).

    Which actually language/culture/myth is a subject in my next post (not right now - later). As stumbled upon an interesting viewpoint form an individual from another country.

    Regards, Sal

    Cold Irons Bound by Bob Dylan

    The walls of pride are high and wide
    Can’t see over to the other side
    It’s such a sad thing to see beauty decay

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