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Thread: Robert Graves

  1. #1
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    Robert Graves

    We have another gold mine of knowledge here.

    http://www.24grammata.com/wp-content...mmata.com_.pdf

    "Robert Graves was born in 1895 at Wimbledon, son of Alfred Perceval Graves, the Irish writer, and Amalia von Ranke. He went from school to the First World War, where he became a captain in the Royal Welch Fusiliers. His principal calling is poetry, and his Selected Poems have been published in the Penguin Poets. Apart from a year as Professor of English Literature at Cairo University in 1926 he has since earned his living by writing, mostly historical novels which include: I, Claudius; Claudius the God; Sergeant Lamb of the Ninth; Count Belisarius; Wife to Mr Milton (all published as Penguins); Proceed, Sergeant Lamb; The Golden Fleece; They Hanged My Saintly Billy; and The Isles of Unwisdom. He wrote his autobiography, Goodbye to All That (a Penguin Modem Classic), in 1929. His two most discussed non-fiction books are The White Goddess, which presents a new view of the poetic impulse, and The Nazarene Gospel Restored (with Joshua Podro), a re-examination of primitive Christianity. He has translated Apuleius, Lucan, and Svetonius for the Penguin Classics. He was elected Professor of Poetry at Oxford in 1962"

    Full text of "Greek Mythology 1 - Deities" - Internet Archive

    This is not so well formatted for easy reading.

    https://archive.org/stream/GreekMyth...ogy-1_djvu.txt

    [PDF]ROBERT GRAVES THE WHITE GODDESS
    This is the best book of his. http://72.52.202.216/~fenderse/The-White-Goddess.pdf



    http://www.robertgraves.org/issues/1...article_56.pdf


    Items 558 - 566 - The Greek Myths (1955) as a translation of Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, .... GRAVESIANA THE JOURNAL OF THE ROBERT GRAVES SOCIETY.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-17-2015 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #2
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    From The White Goddess we have him saying a load of truth and giving glimpses into code or wisdom (yes, the two connect). It is hard for me to over-emphasize the importance of his work.

    "But even after Alexander the Great had cut the Gordian Knot—an act of far greater moral significance than is generally realized—the ancient language survived purely enough in the secret Mystery-cults of Eleusis, Corinth, Samothrace and elsewhere; and when these were suppressed by the early Christian Emperors it was still taught in the poetic colleges of Ireland and Wales, and in the witch-covens of Western Europe. As a popular religious tradition it all but flickered out at the close of the seventeenth century: and though poetry of a magical quality is still occasionally written, even in industrialized Europe, this always results from an inspired, almost pathological, reversion to the original language—a wild Pentecostal 'speaking with tongues'—rather than from a conscientious study of its grammar and vocabulary.

    English poetic education should, really, begin not with the Canterbury Tales, not with the Odyssey, not even with Genesis, but with the Song of Amergin, (1) an ancient Celtic calendar-alphabet, {Ogham} found in several purposely garbled Irish and Welsh variants, which briefly summarizes the prime poetic myth. I have tentatively restored the text as follows:

    (Notes: 1 As Shakespeare knew. See Macbeth, IV, i, 25. 12)

    I am a stag: of seven tines,
    I am a flood: across a plain,
    I am a wind: on a deep lake,
    I am a tean the Sun lets fall,
    I am a hawk: above the cliff,
    I am a thorn: beneath the nail,
    I am a wonder: among flowers,
    I am a wizard: who but I Sets the cool head aflame with smoke?
    I am a spear: that roars for blood,
    I am a salmon: in a pool,
    I am a lure: from paradise,
    I am a hill: where poets walk,
    I am a boar: ruthless and red,
    I am a breaker: threatening doom,
    I am a tide: that drags to death,
    I am an infant: who but I Peeps from the unhewn dolmen arch ?
    I am the womb: of every holt,
    I am the blaze: on every hill,
    I am the queen: of every hire,
    I am the shield: for every head,
    I am the tomb: of every hope.

    It is unfortunate that, despite the strong mythical element in Christianity, 'mythical' has come to mean 'fanciful, absurd, unhistorical'; for fancy piayed a negligible part in the development of the Greek, Latin and Palestinian myths, or of the Celtic myths until the Norman-French trovires worked them up into irresponsible romances of chivalry. They are all grave records of ancient religious customs or events, and reliable enough as history once their language is understood and allowance has been made for errors in transcription, misunderstandings of obsolete ritual, and deliberate changes introduced for moral or political reasons. Some myths of course have survived in a far purer form than others; for example, the Fables of Hyginus, the Library of Apollodorus and the earlier tales of the Welsh Mabinogion make easy reading compared with the deceptively simple chronicles of Genesis, Exodus, Judges and Samuel. Perhaps the greatest difficulty in solving complex mythological problems is that:

    *3
    Conquering gods their titles take From the foes they captive make,
    and that to know the name of a deity at any given place or period, is far less important than to know the nature of the sacrifices that he or she was then offered. The powers of the gods were continuously being redefined. The Greek god Apollo, for instance, seems to have begun as the Demon of a Mouse-fraternity in pre-Aryan totemistic Europe: he gradually rose in divine rank by force of arms, blackmail and fraud until he became the patron of Music, Poetry and the Arts and finally, in some regions at least, ousted his 'father' Zeus from the Sovereignty of the Universe by identifying himself with Belinus the intellectual God of Light. Jehovah, the God of the Jews, has a still more complex history."


    How can we teach the 'speaking in tongue' reversal to Ogham dialects if there is no etheric bank of knowledge called Ein Sof, the Akashic or other similar conceptualizations in language? Is it through that same ether or medium that we can attune to achieve bibliomancy, soul mates, decrees, action-at-a-distance and enhanced horizontal gene transfer now being proven?

    For other ancient and pre-historic Keltic calendars see this thread.

    http://forum.world-mysteries.com/thr...=3623#post3623
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-28-2015 at 01:42 PM.

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    Greek mythology has proven useful in archaeology for the finding of whole cultures including Troy and Knossos. It has been implicated as a source for many other finds as well. Jung kept the Iliad by his bedside for two decades because you can go most any direction in meditating on these mythic characters as you wander your merry way into lucid dreaming. Yes, much ancient knowledge is attributed to Greek gods and you can find out there are actual historic people who match those mythical characters if you are not writing tests for some modern history course.

    http://www.mythologydictionary.com/greek-mythology.html

    "Whether or not it is clear to you, the universe is unfolding as it should..." Desiderata

    But there are ways your control of every part of your existence are formed and you know so little about them. This is especially true if you fear things you do not understand. (Including even yourself or SELF.) One of the major tools forming people today is games. And when I saw Lucis Trust (Luciferians) and Damanhur (Alchemists) working on those games and developing ways to inculcate new thinking through them (Later Harry Potter took the stage.) I was happy and concerned at the same time. Isaac Bonewitz is an OK occultist and his following work is worth reading. In it you will find words have much power.

    http://www.neopagan.net/AT_Laws.html

    The Gaels or Gaedhils are the Milesians like ML-chhi-zadok and Brian Boru who the Kennedy family trace their roots to. Thus one can honestly say Camelot in Massachusetts is as real as the one in Glastonbury or Lyoness. They include Columbanus and Columcille (St. Columba) if you look under Gaedhil at Wikipedia. Thank god we have DNA now - it was a lot harder to prove my history and that of MacDari (The Masonic linguist whose book Irish Wisdom I spent twenty years researching after given the task to re-write it by my Ogham mentor.) before DNA. Due to the destruction of books and efforts to deny the truth of earlier culture called Atlantean by some, I had to scour every science and technology. The likes of Fin and his Fianna turned into real people as the years went by and other scholars were finding out that the Phoenicians are what we might call Atlanteans just as Plato did. Along the way I learned why I was selected - my last name is more than merely a Bard or Druid, and I am named after the man who reformed the Templars as the Societas Rosicruciana en Anglia. The Hibernians of Robert de Bruges and Royal Society of the Stuart (Hatti and Hittite) Kings and Newton et al are all connected. Some people call these elitists hangers on by words like Rupert and if you know Prince Albert was related to Prince Rupert and Albert might be the person called Jack the Ripper you are getting part of the true story. My father had a lot of knowledge and a few legends of our family but it took far more to accept my burden than mere wive's tales.

    I mentioned a Royal who might have been Jack the Ripper. Apparently DNA on a victim's shawl might prove it was a Polish Hairdresser. I can imagine how such blood could get on her shawl during the cutting of matted hair soaked with you know what. I also know the management of alibis for Royals is such that they can be in many places at once, and I do not think they bi-locate. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/s...aron-kosminski

    "In their own national epic contained within medieval works such as the Lebor Gabála Érenn, the Gaels trace the origin of their people to an eponymous ancestor named Goídel Glas. He is described as a Scythian prince (the grandson of Fénius Farsaid), who is credited within creating the Gaelic languages. Goídel's mother is called Scota, described as an Egyptian princess (some modern writers associate her with Meritaten). The Gaels are depicted as wandering from place to place for hundreds of years; they spend time in Egypt, Crete, Scythia, the Caspian Sea and Getulia, before arriving in Iberia. It is here that their king, Breogán, is said to have founded Galicia.

    The Gaels are then said to have sailed to Ireland via Galicia in the form of the Milesians, sons of Míl Espáine. The Gaels fight a battle of sorcery with the Tuatha Dé Danann, the gods, who inhabited Ireland at the time. Ériu, a goddess of the land, promises the Gaels that Ireland shall be theirs so long as they give tribute to her. They agree, and their bard Amergin recites an incantation known as the Song of Amergin. The two groups agree to divide Ireland between them: the Gaels take the world above, while the Tuath Dé take the world below (i.e. the Otherworld).

    Advances in DNA studies have revealed some clues about the origin of the Gaels (who are associated with paternal R-L21).[31] Haplogroup R originated 26,800 years ago in Central Asia during the Last Ice Age. The R1b branch had broken off by the Paleolithic and it's derivative R-M269 was found at the Pontic-Caspian steppe by the Chalcolithic (the Kurgan hypothesis makes these speakers of Proto-Indo-European).[31] First entering Europe proper 7,000 years ago, the Indo-Europeans developed bronze weapons and domesticated the horse, giving them the upper-hand in their conquest of the Old Europe and the proliferation of their lineages.[31] After the R-L51 subclade founded the Unetice culture, a derivative R-L21 moved West arriving in Britain c. 2100 BCE and Ireland c. 2000 BCE, becoming the Gaelic people.[31]"


    Later, after reading Graves’ King Jesus and of Jesus’ exposure to ogham while training in Egypt, ogham became for me a potent symbol of a pagan past before Christianity.
    When Flavin said the above I saw so many connections with MacDari and I have read Graves' White Goddess to cull some Phoenician insights - though good; not as good as the Golden Bough. I draw your attention to the word POTENT and I also wonder about the word or pejorative "pagan" rather than something like Chaos Science.

    And the hits just keep on coming! History is a web of lies where people call other people ignorant or unable to write or travel, or even think and be conscious (John Locke and the Pope during the heathen invasion of paradise). But the people before the second millennium BCE in this report traveled and traded in the whole area from Egypt to Denmark.

    "After taking a new look at a pair of ancient cobalt beads, archaeologists now believe these Bronze Age artifacts may have been manufactured in the same workshop as the blue glass on King Tut’s death mask.


    If that’s the case, an extensive trade network likely ran from ancient Denmark to Egypt and Mesopotamia around 3,400 years ago, the researchers say.


    For the research, an international team of Danish and French archaeologists used a technique called plasma-mass spectrometry to analyze the chemical composition of 23 glass beads dating back to between 1400 and 1100 B.C. The set of beads was unearthed from Danish graves in the late 19th century.


    The analysis revealed that two cobalt beads in the set contained the same trace elements as glass made in Egypt around the same time, which suggests they came from the same region. In fact, the researchers say the new discovery is the first Egyptian cobalt glass that has been found outside the Mediterranean area."


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...n_6323680.html
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-17-2016 at 05:31 AM. Reason: add content

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    The meaning of God and the potential of your soul can come to you through Qabala. The following explains the cults surrounding a later version of Qabala more accurately than any I have seen. Does that make any of it correct or true? No, it does not. I regard Qabala as knowledge that was maintained by the bards or story-tellers; it began before writing and probably before spoken language.

    It does not matter a whole lot if I am right about it being that long ago, too much. What really matters is that Rome re-wrote everything they could not erase from the memory of people in Gnosticism, Christianity and history. Book burning only gets rid of paper, after all. They put themselves in positions of authority and blamed others including those they had created racial slurs and hatreds towards - for what they had done. Yes, the Gospels are Roman propaganda. And you can see they did the same thing to Kabbalah in this quote.

    "The word Qabalah (lit. receiving, also "welcoming of God") alludes to a dynamic state of direct communication and mystical union of the individual soul with the Divine. In that sense, it is synonymous with the Sanskrit word Yoga (lit. union with or absorption in the Divine). The word "Qabalah" is often seen transliterated as "Kabbalah" or "Cabala." However, the word begins with a Qof, and not a Kaf, and only has one Beyt, not two. Hence, the Work of the Chariot uses the spelling "Qabalah" in referring to the universal mystical spirituality of the Mystical Qabalah. The spelling "Kabbalah" is generally used to designate the religious-based Jewish Kabbalah of the Pharisaic Rabbinical tradition. The spelling "Cabala" is generally used to designate the Christian Cabala that evolved to portray elements of Roman Catholic dogma as the fulfillment of the Jewish Kabbalah."[/

    The letter "h" is a phonetic sound known as an aspirant and did not exist in most alphabets until recent times.

    "The universal mystical spirituality of the children of Abraham is a robust, precious, and little known heritage upon which the fabric of the Judaic, Christian, Islamic, and perhaps even the Tantric religions are woven. In this book, that heritage is called the Mystical Qabalah."

    Few who profess to know God will ever come close to s/h/it.

    http://www.workofthechariot.com/Text...tsTemples.html
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-23-2016 at 12:26 AM.

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    Is it possible that the next age of humanity will return to a more whole and complete conception of our purposes and goals? Can we throw off the patristic bullying and war-mongering religions in favor of a more empathic and sharing or caring ethos? Did Rome or the earlier Greeks who fought to make women barefoot and in the kitchen with not even a right to own land have to make the Gospels with no woman to share the burden of Jesus? Was Hammurabi right to say woman is the possession of her father until sold to her husband/ That kind of thinking still exists in the cult of Christ to the present.

    I hope the Mayan calendar was right, though off a little. That is according to Beckett who showed it was more accurate until any other astronomical insight until the early 20th Century. We will soon see in a decade or so, if we get the spiritual cycle Joseph Campbell correctly said the Maya predicted. Here is a little from Robert Graves to contemplate.

    "Yet genuine mythic elements may be found embedded in the least promising stories, and the fullest or most illuminating version of a given myth is seldom supplied by any one author; nor, when searching for its original form, should one assume that the more ancient the written source, the more authoritative it must be. Often, for instance, the playful Alexandrian Callimachus, or the frivolous Augustan Ovid, or the dry-as-dust late-Byzantine Tzetzes, gives an obviously earlier version of a myth than do Hesiod or the Greek tragedians; and the thirteenth-century Excidium Troiae is, in parts, mythically sounder than the Iliad. When making prose sense of a mythological or pseudomythological narrative, one should always pay careful attention to the names, tribal origin, and fates of the characters concerned; and then restore it to the form of dramatic ritual, whereupon its incidental elements will sometimes suggest an analogy with another myth which has been given a wholly different anecdotal twist, and shed light on both.

    A study of Greek mythology should begin with a consideration of what political and religious systems existed in Europe before the arrival of Aryan {Eire-yann} invaders from the distant North and East. The whole of Neolithic Europe, to judge from surviving artefacts and myths, had a remarkably homogeneous system of religious ideas, based on worship of the many-titled Mother-goddess, who was also known in Syria and Libya. Ancient Europe had no gods. The Great Goddess was regarded as immortal, changeless, and omnipotent; and the concept of fatherhood had not been introduced into religious thought. She took lovers, but for pleasure, not to provide her children with a father. Men feared, adored, and obeyed the matriarch; the hearth which she tended in a cave or hut being their earliest social centre, and motherhood their prime mystery. Thus the first victim of a Greek public sacrifice was always offered to Hestia of the Hearth. The goddess’s white aniconic image, perhaps her most widespread emblem, which appears at Delphi as the omphalos, or navel-boss, may originally have represented the raised white mound of tightly packed ash, enclosing live charcoal, which is the easiest means of preserving fire without smoke. Later, it became pictorially identified with the lime-whitened mound under which the harvest corn-doll was hidden, to be removed sprouting in the spring; and with the mound of sea-shells, or quartz, or white marble, underneath which dead kings were buried. Not only the moon, but (to judge from Hemera of Greece and Grairme of Ireland) the sun, were the goddess’s celestial symbols. In earlier Greek myth, however, the sun yields precedence to the moon—which inspires the greater superstitious fear, does not grow dimmer as the year wanes, and is credited with the power to grant or deny water to the fields. The moon's three phases of new, full and old, recalled the matriarch's three phases of maiden, nymph (nubile woman) and crone.

    Then, since the sun's annual course similarly recalled the rise and decline of her physical powers—spring a maiden, summer a nymph, winter a crone—the goddess became identified with seasonal changes in animal and plant life; and thus with Mother Earth who, at the beginning of the vegetative year, produces only leaves and buds, then flowers and fruits, and at last ceases to bear. She could later be conceived as yet another triad: the maiden of the upper air, the nymph of the earth or sea, the crone of the Underworld—typified respectively by Selene, Aphrodite and Hecate."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-22-2016 at 08:53 AM.

  6. #6
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    Why do I get such joy proving people like Robert Graves and Sir James Frazer to be correct? Does it have any merit to the present for people to learn how true it is that "history is prologue to the present"? Does it help religious scholars to learn where the myths of g-ds began or what a bard like Homer or Hesiod studied?

    Archaeomythology might not be a 'see this is proof' kind of exploration but it leads places that people who need to see artifacts will miss.

    "Mariolakos I.D.1 1 National and Kapodistrian University of Athens, Faculty of Geology and Geoenvironment, Department of Dynamic, Tectonic & Applied Geology, Panepistimioupoli, Zografou, 157 84, Athens, Greece, [email protected]
    Abstract

    Many believe that the Greek Mythology is a figment of the vivid imagination of the ancient Greeks. Consequently, the Greek Myths are all fantastic stories. In my opinion, this view is erroneous, at least on the subject concerning the geographic and physical-oceanographic characteristics of the Atlantic Ocean, as these were described mainly by Homer, Hesiod, the Orphics and Plutarch. In the present paper (i) some of the references made by the above mentioned authors are selectively reported, and (ii) the physical and geological validation is given, based on the present-day scientific views and knowledge. Namely, the prehistoric Greeks knew about the Hyperboreans, the island of Ierne (Ireland), the British isle etc., by the Orphics. From the writings of Plutarch, they knew (i) the relative position of the present-day Iceland (Ogygia) and its distance from Britain, (ii) that to the west of Iceland, three other islands are located, where the sun sets for only an hour a day, (iii) that further to the west there is a “great continent”, which surrounds the Ocean and more. Homer and Hesiod wrote that (i) the Ocean is a “river” that flows continuously, (ii) that this river encircles the Earth and (iii) that its flow is turbulent not only on the surface, but in depth as well. Unfortunately, all this knowledge was gradually forgotten by all. This is the reason why Odyssey is considered just an entertaining poem and Ulysses’ nostos a fantastic story, with no trace of historic reality."


    We will explore more of this proof that Homer's work on the Trojan War probably leads to saying there was a worldwide war in 19 separate theatres of operation. In knowing that you will just begin to grasp how much we have to uncover about our true past. Starting at page 91 we have the above abstract.

    http://www.geology.upatras.gr/files/...%20Vol%201.pdf
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-07-2016 at 01:55 PM.

  7. #7
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    Graves gives us a great deal to fully grasp when he asserts there were no Gods before Empire in Greece. Think long and hard as you read this. It also tells us how women became deprecated at the same time Ariadne was made the last Queen of the all-important Crete center of culture. You might ask (if you know Crete was gay or be-sexual) why this was taking place as Temples were built and captives or commoners were used as 'Devoted Ones'. Cahill's Gifts of the Jews tells us their 'devotion' included being harvested for ritualistic and divinatory purposes after they were used and abused by the Temple Priests. Because the Amazons are true history according to archaeology I say there was a major change which took place around the 13th Century BPE and sexuality of some southern people seems involved. I can think of many cultural initiative in Babylon and Egypt which accounts for these changes - including the cult of the dead enhanced by drugs we know came from Peru which were found in Mummies. The Amazons had to take their families and friends to escape these patristic theoganies or kingly quests, and move north to places like Scythia where we have kurgans showing men were subservient to them to at least some degree. Graves tells us about the acceptance of coitus as the cause of children - could this have been also part of the mix, and women were thus made into baby-factories in the Abrahamic era? Was the Trojan War shortly after this a part of the ethos?

    "INTRODUCTION

    THE mediaeval emissaries of the Catholic Church brought to Great Britain, in addition to the whole corpus of sacred history, a Continental university system based on the Greek and Latin Classics. Such native legends as those of King Arthur, Guy of Warwick, Robin Hood, the Blue Hag of Leicester, and King Lear were considered suitable enough for the masses, yet by early Tudor times the clergy and the educated classes were referring far more frequently to the myths in Ovid, Virgil, and the grammar school summaries of the Trojan War.

    Though official English literature of the sixteenth to the nineteenth centuries cannot, therefore, be properly understood except in the light of Greek mythology, the Classics have lately lost so much ground in schools and universities that an educated person is now no longer expected to know (for instance) who Deucalion, Pelops, Daedalus, Oenone, Laocoön, or Antigone may have been. Current knowledge of these myths is mostly derived from such fairy-story versions as Kingsley’s Heroes and Hawthorne’s Tanglewood Tales; and at first sight this does not seem to matter much, because for the last two thousand years it has been the fashion to dismiss the myths as bizarre and chimerical fancies, a charming legacy from the childhood of the Greek intelligence, which the Church naturally depreciates in order to emphasize the greater spiritual importance of the Bible. Yet it is difficult to overestimate their value in the study of early European history, religion, and sociology.

    ‘Chimerical’ is an adjectival form of the noun chimaera, meaning ‘she-goat’. Four thousand years ago the Chimaera can have seemed no more bizarre than any religious, heraldic, or commercial emblem does today. She was a formal composite beast with (as Homer records) a lion’s head, a goat’s body, and a serpent’s tail. A Chimaera has been found carved on the walls of a Hittite temple at Carchemish and, like such other composite beasts as the Sphinx and the Unicorn, will originally have been a calendar symbol: each component represented a season of the Queen of Heaven’s sacred year—as, according to Diodorus Siculus, the three strings of her tortoise-shell lyre also did. This ancient three-season year is discussed by Nilsson in his Primitive Time Reckoning (1910). Only a small part, however, of the huge, disorganized corpus of Greek mythology, which contains importations from Crete, Egypt, Palestine, Phrygia, Babylonia, and elsewhere, can properly be classified with the Chimaera as true myth. True myth may be defined as the reduction to narrative shorthand of ritual mime performed on public festivals, and in many cases recorded pictorially on temple walls, vases, seals, bowls, mirrors, chests, shields, tapestries, and the like. The Chimaera and her fellow calendar-beasts must have figured prominently in these dramatic performances which, with their iconographic and oral records, became the prime authority, or charter, for the religious institutions of each tribe, clan, or city.

    Their subjects were archaic magic-makings that promoted the fertility or stability of a sacred queendom, or kingdom—queendoms having, it seems, preceded kingdoms throughout the Greek-speaking area—and amendments to these, introduced as circumstances required. Lucian’s essay On the Dance lists an imposing number of ritual mimes still performed in the second century AD; and Pausanias’s description of the temple paintings at Delphi and the carvings on Cypselus’s Chest, suggests that an immense amount of miscellaneous mythological records, of which no trace now remains, survived into the same period. True myth must be distinguished from:

    (1) Philosophical allegory, as in Hesiod’s cosmogony.
    (2) ‘Aetiological’ explanation of myths no longer understood, as in Admetus’s yoking of a lion and a boar to his chariot.
    (3) Satire or parody, as in Silenus’s account of Atlantis.
    (4) Sentimental fable, as in the story of Narcissus and Echo.
    (5) Embroidered history, as in Arion’s adventure with the dolphin.
    (6) Minstrel romance, as in the story of Cephalus and Procris.
    (7) Political propaganda, as in Theseus’s Federalization of Attica.
    (8) Moral legend, as in the story of Eriphyle’s necklace.
    (9) Humorous anecdote, as in the bedroom farce of Heracles, Omphale, and Pan.
    (10) Theatrical melodrama, as in the story of Thestor and his daughters.
    (11) Heroic saga, as in the main argument of the Iliad.
    (12) Realistic fiction, as in Odysseus’s visit to the Phaeacians.

    Yet genuine mythic elements may be found embedded in the least promising stories, and the fullest or most illuminating version of a given myth is seldom supplied by any one author; nor, when searching for its original form, should one assume that the more ancient the written source, the more authoritative it must be. Often, for instance, the playful Alexandrian Callimachus, or the frivolous Augustan Ovid, or the dry-as-dust late-Byzantine Tzetzes, gives an obviously earlier version of a myth than do Hesiod or the Greek tragedians; and the thirteenth-century Excidium Troiae is, in parts, mythically sounder than the Iliad. When making prose sense of a mythological or pseudomythological narrative, one should always pay careful attention to the names, tribal origin, and fates of the characters concerned; and then restore it to the form of dramatic ritual, whereupon its incidental elements will sometimes suggest an analogy with another myth which has been given a wholly different anecdotal twist, and shed light on both.


    http://www.24grammata.com/wp-content...mmata.com_.pdf
    cont'd
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-08-2016 at 12:49 PM.

  8. #8
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    There should be early classes taught on how to deduce facts out of fictions such as the reports we get in media of all kinds. I think these last two posts of Graves are a format for Biblical and other myth translation to something useful.

    "A study of Greek mythology should begin with a consideration of what political and religious systems existed in Europe before the arrival of Aryan invaders from the distant North and East. The whole of Neolithic Europe, to judge from surviving artefacts and myths, had a remarkably homogeneous system of religious ideas, based on worship of the many-titled Mother-goddess, who was also known in Syria and Libya. Ancient Europe had no gods. The Great Goddess was regarded as immortal, changeless, and omnipotent; and the concept of fatherhood had not been introduced into religious thought. She took lovers, but for pleasure, not to provide her children with a father. Men feared, adored, and obeyed the matriarch; the hearth which she tended in a cave or hut being their earliest social centre, and motherhood their prime mystery. Thus the first victim of a Greek public sacrifice was always offered to Hestia of the Hearth. The goddess’s white aniconic image, perhaps her most widespread emblem, which appears at Delphi as the omphalos, or navel-boss, may originally have represented the raised white mound of tightly packed ash, enclosing live charcoal, which is the easiest means of preserving fire without smoke.

    Later, it became pictorially identified with the lime-whitened mound under which the harvest corn-doll was hidden, to be removed sprouting in the spring; and with the mound of sea-shells, or quartz, or white marble, underneath which dead kings were buried. Not only the moon, but (to judge from Hemera of Greece and Grairme of Ireland) the sun, were the goddess’s celestial symbols. In earlier Greek myth, however, the sun yields precedence to the moon—which inspires the greater superstitious fear, does not grow dimmer as the year wanes, and is credited with the power to grant or deny water to the fields. The moon's three phases of new, full and old, recalled the matriarch's three phases of maiden, nymph (nubile woman) and crone. Then, since the sun's annual course similarly
    recalled the rise and decline of her physical powers—spring a maiden, summer a nymph, winter a crone—the goddess became identified with seasonal changes in animal and plant life; and thus with Mother Earth who, at the beginning of the vegetative year, produces only leaves and buds, then flowers and fruits, and at last ceases to bear. She could later be conceived as yet another triad: the maiden of the upper air, the nymph of the earth or sea, the crone of the Underworld—typified respectively by Selene, Aphrodite and Hecate. These mystical analogues fostered the sacredness of the number three, and the Moon-goddess became enlarged to nine when each of the three persons—maiden, nymph and crone—appeared in triad to demonstrate her divinity. Her devotees never quite forgot that there were not three goddesses, but one goddess; although by Classical times, Arcadian Stymphalus was one of the few remaining shrines where they all bore the same name: Hera.

    Once the relevance of coition to child-bearing had been officially admitted—an account of this turning-point in religion appears in the Hittite myth of simple-minded Appu— man's religious status gradually improved, and winds or rivers were no longer given credit for impregnating women. The tribal nymph, it seems, chose an annual lover from her entourage of young men, a king to be sacrificed when the year ended; making him a symbol of fertility, rather than the object of her erotic pleasure. His sprinkled blood served to fructify trees, crops and flocks, and his flesh was torn and eaten raw by the queen's fellow nymphs—priestesses wearing masks of bitches, mares and sows."


    http://www.24grammata.com/wp-content...mmata.com_.pdf

    Paul Devereux and Cognitive Archaeology is useful in understanding our past and how our cognitive processes are affected.

    http://www.siloam.net/members.aol.co...te/jse0113.htm

    So we have academics who quote the best of the era before them and who stick within disciplines that do not study the other disciplines enough to even keep remotely close to updated. Then we have a lack of integration due to over-emphasis on minutiae in their chosen discipline which these people then have to earn a living at - teaching other fools who do not question or think - while attacking those who do - like Gimbutas, Hawkes, Steen-McIntyre, Meggars, Nuttall (just to name the women).

    But they all stick to the story line that they are at the zenith of human development or some racist Scale of Nature.

    Meanwhile people are fed up and getting more insight from ancient wisdom acquisition disciplines and healing methods like Yoga and acupuncture. The only new philosophy is a new word describing an old approach and recycling these approaches in psychology from one fad back to another. Thank dog for the atom-mysticists like Faraday (who was weak on Math but good on observing) and Sir William Crookes.

    Worse than these things is the outright destruction of artifacts deemed not in line with the paradigm theories. It did not start with St. Patrick who may have been responsible for 1200 hand drawn books being destroyed - he is generally acknowledged to have personally dealt with 150 Irish books by himself. He doctored the most important book of all. I think it is the book Strabo said he knew the Celtiberians had a 7,000 year written history of their people in. That would of course mean these people had a writing language 6000 years before his 'advanced' Greek culture we have been forced to learn about as they Hellenized and appropriated former civilized people who had colonized them. Then later you get churchians writing as if the Senchus Mor is an extant book of laws of the Irish when it is in fact doctored Roman propaganda rather than the 25,000 year history of the Keltoi or 'ancient ones'. Yep, and if you read Wikipedia you would believe the Roman Empire liars.

    https://archive.org/stream/ancientla...cuoft_djvu.txt
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-10-2016 at 11:25 AM.

  9. #9
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    The Holy Grail by Tennyson or the works of Ossian are verdant archaeomythological playgrounds. If I could have discussed symbols with Joseph Campbell, or his Eranos friends I would be light years ahead of where I am. The PBS series with Joseph Campbell interviewed by Bill Moyers is what the History Channel should strive for. George Lucas says it was Campbell's work which lead to Star Wars - and O - BE - one is at-one-ment. There is no SIN when one atones - one is already ONE. It is what Sir James Frazer attempted to convey in The Golden Bough. The really big question is Kan u BE? Where are those droids?

    "The Holy Grail

    by Alfred, Lord Tennyson


    From noiseful arms, and acts of prowess done
    In tournament or tilt, Sir Percivale,
    Whom Arthur and his knighthood called The Pure,
    Had passed into the silent life of prayer
    Praise, fast, and alms; and leaving for the cowl
    The helmet in an abbey far away
    From Camelot, there, and not long after, died.

    And one, a fellow-monk among the rest
    Ambrosius, {Merlin Amrosianus of the Merovingian Mesopotamian blood.} loved him much beyond the rest,
    And honoured him, and wrought into his heart
    A way by love that wakened love within,
    To answer that which came: and as they sat
    Beneath a world-old yew-tree, {Joseph's Palestinian Thorn} darkening half
    The cloisters, on a gustful April morn
    That puffed the swaying branches into smoke
    Above them, ere the summer when he died,
    The monk Ambrosius questioned Percivale:

    "O brother, I have seen this yew-tree smoke,
    Spring after spring, for half a hundred years:
    For never have I known the world without,
    Nor ever strayed beyond the pale: but thee,
    When first thou camest--such a courtesy
    Spake through the limbs and in the voice--I knew {Was Merlin or his spirit in the tree?}
    For one of those who eat in Arthur's hall;
    For good ye are and bad, and like to coins,
    Some true, some light, but every one of you
    Stamped with the image of the King; and now {Of the blood ready to do the quest within and no NEED of other.}
    Tell me, what drove thee from the Table Round,
    My brother? was it earthly passion crost?"

    "Nay," said the knight; "for no such passion mine.
    But the sweet vision of the Holy Grail
    Drove me from all vainglories, rivalries,
    And earthly heats that spring and sparkle out
    Among us in the jousts, while women watch
    Who wins, who falls; and waste the spiritual strength
    Within us, better offered up to Heaven."

    To whom the monk: "The Holy Grail!--I trust
    We are green in Heaven's eyes; but here too much
    We moulder--as to things without I mean--
    Yet one of your own knights, a guest of ours,
    Told us of this in our refectory,
    But spake with such a sadness and so low
    We heard not half of what he said. What is it?
    The phantom of a cup that comes and goes?" {The ley lines run through Glastonbury abbey or Tor are marked by cups and circles since before the first Merlin or Arthur - see Lyoness and Carnac's megaliths}

    Produced by Ray Flowers - Copyright©1995-2013 SanGraal - Revised: 09 Apr 2014 16:07:41 -0400"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-30-2016 at 12:25 AM.

  10. #10
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    Yon Lucius of Senecas doth say
    What Willy wrote derived a mite
    Toward a castle sky on high
    No thought of ye to spend this nite
    But in the 'morrow light of day
    Comes another here good bye

    "This said, she twists the thread around his ugly spindle once, 4
    Snaps off the last bit of the life of that Imperial dunce.
    But Lachesis, her hair adorned, her tresses neatly bound,
    Pierian laurel on her locks, her brows with garlands crowned,
    Plucks me from out the snowy wool new threads as white as snow,
    Which handled with a happy touch change colour as they go,
    Not common wool, but golden wire; the Sisters wondering gaze,
    As age by age the pretty thread runs down the golden days.
    World without end they spin away, the happy fleeces pull;
    What joy they take to fill their hands with that delightful wool!
    Indeed, the task performs itself: no toil the spinners know:
    Down drops the soft and silken thread as round the spindles go;
    Fewer than these are Tithon's years, not Nestor's life so long.
    Phoebus is present: glad he is to sing a merry song;
    Now helps the work, now full of hope upon the harp doth play;
    The Sisters listen to the song that charms their toil away.
    They praise their brother's melodies, and still the spindles run,
    Till more than man's allotted span the busy hands have spun.
    Then Phoebus says, "O sister Fates! I pray take none away,
    But suffer this one life to be longer than mortal day.
    Like me in face and lovely grace, like me in voice and song,
    He'll bid the laws at length speak out that have been dumb so long,
    Will give unto the weary world years prosperous and bright.
    Like as the daystar from on high scatters the stars of night,
    As, when the stars return again, clear Hesper brings his light,
    Or as the ruddy dawn drives out the dark, and brings the day,
    As the bright sun looks on the world, and speeds along its way
    His rising car from morning's gates: so Caesar doth arise,
    So Nero shows his face to Rome before the people's eyes,
    His bright and shining countenance illumines all the air,
    While down upon his graceful neck fall rippling waves of hair."
    Thus Apollo. But Lachesis, quite as ready to cast a
    favourable eye on a handsome man, spins away by the
    handful, and bestows years and years upon Nero out
    of her own pocket. As for Claudius, they tell everybody
    to speed him on his way
    With cries of joy and solemn litany.

    At once he bubbled up the ghost, and there was an end to that shadow of a
    life. He was listening to a troupe of comedians when he died, so you see I
    have reason to fear those gentry. The last words he was heard to speak in
    this world were these. When he had made a great noise with that end of him
    which talked easiest, he cried out, "Oh dear, oh dear! I think I have made
    a mess of myself." Whether he did or no, I cannot say, but certain it is
    he always did make a mess of everything."


    The origin of qabala (verbal tradition) began before the ability to speak and might be connected to the soul or wisdom acquisition of the most early of knowledge systems even before Tantric and sutra sex and dancing (dream dancing or Dirvish-like ecstasy). The ability to attune with wisdom in nature probably precedes humanity. It is cosmic consciousness and has a corollary or opposite which is also part of the truth we find in Abraxas and the Oroborous. This cosmic fire and ice has origins long before Aristotle or his inspired progenitor Pythagoras the Druid. You can see it in the Qabala's Tree of Life which I did for my book Diverse Druids. http://www.invispress.com/DRD/graphics.html
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-13-2016 at 04:10 PM.

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