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Thread: Nazis - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

  1. #1
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    Jan 2015

    Nazis - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    He bought his title which is about the same as a Baron. His founding position in the Bavarian Illuminati is noteworthy for those who think there is a bad group of people out to build some new order - which I do not think is wrong or new.

    I was accused of being an anti-German 'bot' in a thread titled Hitler and the Occult by a person whose constant quote or siggy is Goethe noting how people behave as sheep. Usually a person who does this kind of thing calls me an anti-Semite - but as per usual this person provided no quote or evidence of what she (I think) said. No doubt I quoted many including Hitler saying he respected his kin (Jews). Is it anti-German to point out he is a Jew, and that most people including Jews do not know the origins of this racist agenda?

    Yes, I have seen anti-german and anti-Hitler stuff all over this site alongside other prejudices against Jews from people like you who do not know what a Jew is.

    Nothing I have said is racist but it does point to your (and others) lack of scholarship.

    Perhaps you could quote something I have said which is anti-German or some reason for your invective other than I find you to be an idiot.

    The Goethe quote you have is proof of the fact that many German scholars have been occultists like him and his hero Albertus Magnus for centuries. The occult is a good source of study - and Hitler was a person who was proud of this very tradition.

    I very early into my arrival here pointed out you could be an Illuminati - due to your quote of Goethe. However, I doubt you are that enlightened, I have developed how he influenced Transcendentalism and the Rhodes Round Table groups which Quigley and I agree is not bad in and of itself - it only needs to be understood by ignorant people. But it is interesting to read the relationship between Hitler and Goethe.

    You can almost say Goethe is the founder of fascism.

    The link between Goethe and Fascism is easily and often made. In 1940 there were about ten books which stated that Goethe hated Jews, this number grew as the war progressed. This is not surprising: Goethe was indeed imbued with the spirit of his time and therefor he talked rather condescendingly about Jewish people. Goethe was also very fond of the German nature, culture and race. He was often quoted in fascistic literal works. An example is the title of a publication of Shirach in 1942: Goethe an uns, Ewige Gedanken des Grossen Deutschen, Eingeleitet durch eine Rede des Reichsjugendführers Baldur von Shirach ('Goethe to us, eternal thoughts of Great Germany, prefaced by a speech by State Youth Leader Baldur von Shirach'). Shirach ends his essay with the sentence 'Youth of Adolf Hitler! For you too count the eternal words ((of Goethe and Hitler)).' Goethe indeed wrote 'We Germans are superior and have no reason to let us blow around by the wind', and fitted therefore wonderfully well in the National Socialistic way of thinking, something that couldn't be said about two other ruling poets at that time: Heine (a Jew) and Platen (a homosexual). Finally it should be mentioned that even Adolf Hitler quoted Goethe in his controversial Mein Kampf. I'll save you the quotes, you can probably imagine what those were like."

    If you want a good laugh this might be a good read.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 12-30-2015 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #2
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    Jan 2015
    We all must know that the Catholic Church has used fear of demons and so-called sin to make a great deal of their power. I hope to illustrate the inner workings of the separation of church and state that is not a reality and that the state uses the same techniques. In the words of the deservedly respected historians Will and Ariel Durant we visit with the technocrats of the Jesuit Order who John Ralston Saul holds up as the forerunners of the lobbyists and other courtesans of this present enlightened age. The quotation from Rousseau and Revolution does not elucidate the agreement Charles of Spain made before giving the Jesuits he expelled from Spain a small stipend. That agreement called for silence on the matters relating to their attempts to inform the people of his true nature. But during this silent period I suggest there were some Jesuits like Adam Weishaupt ( whose father wanted him to be a rabbi) who decided enough was enough. It is this moment in history that we find a significant change in the world took place. America was created in the same year the Illuminati were re-organized by Goethe and St. Germain alongside the Rothschilds being created. Russia celebrates the founding day of these Illuminati in their May Day celebration.

    Various accounts say they intended to have him killed and the truth may never be known because the rest of the Catholic world allowed these hundreds of good Catholics to nearly die on a boat going from port to port seeking refuge. This was (as you will see) a time when muggers and crooks were given 'sanctuary' in the churches. Gregory of Tours in an earlier time notes how this 'sanctuary' often led to the priests making money from charging the supposed crook or the parties wishing to kill them through secret agreements. The Jesuits so expelled lived a miserable existence on a meager pension but kept their mouths shut because if even one talked all would lose their pension. In short there really is no mystery here at all - but it does dovetail with the possibilities of why we are seldom allowed to hear what really went on in the annals of what we improperly call history.


    The power of the Catholic Church rested on the natural super-naturalism of mankind, the recognition and sublimation of sensual impulses and pagan survivals, the encouragement of Catholic fertility {Read baby-factories and 'barefoot in the kitchen' .}, and the inculcation of a theology rich in poetry and hope, and useful to moral discipline and social order. In Italy the Church was also the main source of national income, and a valued check upon a people especially superstitious, pagan, and passionate. Superstitions abounded; as late as 1787 witches were burned at Palermo--and refreshments were served to fashionable ladies witnessing the scene. (2) Pagan beliefs, customs, and ceremonies survived with the genial sanction of the Church. 'I have arrived at a vivid conviction,' wrote Goethe, 'that all traces of original Christianity are extinct here' in Rome. (3) There were, however, many real Christians left in Christendom, even in Italy. Conte Caissotti di Chiusano, bishop of Asti, gave up his rich inheritance, lived in voluntary poverty, and traveled only on foot. Bishop Testa of Monreale slept on straw, ate only enough to subsist, kept only 3,000 lire of his revenues for his personal needs, and devoted the remainder to public works and the poor. (4)

    {But the majority of prelates were not so inclined as they engaged in concubinage and fathering children of the parishioners wives as the church owned the majority of farms and land throughout Italy while collecting alms for the poor. The bulk of church wealth comes from guilt and estates where upon death promises of salvation are tied to a good deed by giving the wealth to the church rather than the justly deserving heirs.}

    The Church responded in some measure to the Enlightenment. The works of Voltaire, Rousseau, Diderot, Helvétius, d'Holbach, La Mettrie, and other freethinkers were of course placed on the Index Expurgatorius, but permission to read them might be obtained from the pope. {This is a perfect example of what we said about practicing one thing while excluding others access to what works. The pope also became promoted as a source of the right to learn. Is this like the situation we have in public education before reaching university?} Monsignor Ventimiglio, bishop (1757-73) of Catania, had in his library full editions of Voltaire, Helvetius, and Rousseau. The Inquisition was abolished in Tuscany and Parma in 1769, in Sicily in 1782, in Rome in 1809. {Witches were still outlawed no doubt. It took until 1951 to rescind the laws against being a witch in England. There are movements afoot to re-institute blasphemy laws.} In 1783 a Catholic priest, Tamburini, under the name of his friend Trauttmansdorff, published an essay On Ecclesiastical and Civil Toleration, in which he condemned the Inquisition, declared all coercion of conscience to be un-Christian, and advocated toleration of all theologies except atheism. (5)

    It was the misfortune of the popes, in this second half of the eighteenth century, that they had to face the demand of Catholic monarchs for the total dissolution of the Society of Jesus. The movement against the Jesuits was part of a contest of power between the triumphant nationalism of the modern state and the internationalism of a papacy weakened by the Reformation, the Enlightenment, and the rise of the business class. {Cardinal Biffi of Bologna thinks there is an anti-Christ among us today who is a philanthropist of great wealth. This 'anti-Christ' supports ecological, animal - and women's right while destroying the tenets of Catholicism. Biffi was a leading contender to take John Paul II's place from the conservative faction of this supranational elite. Apparently this anti-Christ is well versed in the Bible and maybe even a better Christian than Biffi, as I see it.} The Catholic enemies of the Society did not openly press their chief objection, that it had persistently upheld the authority of the popes as superior to that of kings, but they were keenly resentful that an organization acknowledging no superior except its general and the pope should in effect constitute, within each state, an agent of foreign power. They acknowledged the learning and piety of the Jesuits, {Were they jealous of their 'brothers' who actually knew more?} their contributions to science, literature, philosophy, and art, their sedulous and efficient education of Catholic youth, their heroism on foreign missions, their recapture of so much territory once lost to Protestantism. But they charged that the Society had repeatedly interfered in secular affairs, that it had engaged in commerce to reap material gains, that it had inculcated casuistic principles excusing immorality and crime, condoning even the murder of kings, that it had allowed heathen customs and beliefs to survive among its supposed converts in Asia, and that it had offended other religious orders, and many of the secular clergy, by its sharpness in controversy and its contemptuous tone. The ambassadors of the Kings of Portugal, Spain, Naples, and France insisted that the papal charter of the Society be revoked, and that the organization be officially and universally dissolved.

    The expulsion of the Jesuits from Portugal in 1759, from France in 1764-67, from Spain and Naples in 1767, had left the Society still operative in Central and North Italy, in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, in Catholic Germany, Silesia, and Poland. On February 7, 1768, they were expelled from the Bourbon duchy of Parma, and were added to the congestion of Jesuit refugees in the states of the Church. Pope Clement XIII protested that Parma was a papal fief; he threatened Duke Ferdinand VI and his ministers with excommunication of the edict of expulsion should be enforced {But Hitler, or should I say Schicklgruber/Rothschild, was never excommunicated and probably not even threatened. Why?!}; when they persisted he launched a bull declaring the rank and title of the Duke forfeited and annulled. The Catholic governments of Spain, Naples, and France opened war upon the papacy: {One of my ancestors was Miles Keogh who fought with the Vatican Army before his horse was the only survivor of Custer's Last Stand at the Little Big Horn. Many people have a hard time thinking of a supranational theological armed superpower in so recent a time. I suspect he became a Martinist when he was engaged to a Martin of political importance.} Tanucci seized the papal cities of Benevento and Pontecorvo, and France occupied Avignon. On December 10 1768, the French ambassador at Rome, in the name of France, Naples, and Spain, presented to the Pope a demand for the retraction of the bull against Parma, and for the abolition of the Society of Jesus. The seventy-six-year-old pontiff collapsed under the strain of this ultimatum. He summoned for February 3, 1769, a consistory of prelates and envoys to consider the matter. On February 2 he fell dead through the bursting of a blood vessel in his brain.


  3. #3
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    Jan 2015
    It is hard to over-emphasize the contributions to the welfare of people in America and Europe due to the Enlightenment Experiment. Yes, some aboriginal issues did occur and plans for wars to end all wars resulted - but we are more able to challenge ourselves rather than having so much time spent on religious feudal inquisitions and worse. Of course, we are still waging this war against tyranny but Goethe is a source of light and reason as we see in this introduction to a book on him from a fair and unbiased (As much as possible) source.

    "Throughout his oeuvre Goethe invokes the writers and thinkers of the Enlightenment: Voltaire and Goldsmith, Sterne and Bayle, Beccaria and Franklin. And he does not merely reference them: their ideas make up the salt of his most acclaimed works. Like Hume before him, Goethe takes up the topic of suicide, but in a best-selling novel, Werther; the beating heart of Faust I is the fate of a woman who commits infanticide, a burning social issue of his age; in an article for a popular journal Goethe takes up the cause of Kant and Penn, who wrote treatises on how to establish peace in Europe. In another essay Goethe calls for reconciliation between Germans who had fought against each other in those same Wars, as well as for worldwide understanding between Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Heathens. Professor Kerry shows that Goethe is a child of the Enlightenment and an innovator of its legacy. To do so he discusses a chronological swath of Goethe's works, both popular and neglected, and shows how each of them engages Enlightenment concerns.

    Paul Kerry is associate professor in the Department of History and member of the European Studies faculty at Brigham Young University."

  4. #4
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    Jan 2015
    And alongside Campbell and Jung as Nazis according to some you can place all people on earth who have ever joked about Poles, blacks, Newfies and others - by calling them racist. In my POV I am a Jew by genetics even though I am Scots (Irish raiders is an origin of this word as is Scota of Scythia/Egypt) Irish. I have laid enough history and science out here to at least demonstrate there is no actual Jewish race as some people think. If the study of esotericism and Qabala is enough to make Hassidim into Jews then I'm your Huckleberry on that front too. Thus I am like Jung and Campbell. Please read this thread to see how infantile some people get when they talk about Anti-Semitism or other propaganda and weak research designed by actual proven mind controllers such as Hitler - also a Jew.

    Eranos suffered a loss as did the world, and had to close a decade or so ago - but then reborn like the Phoenix is alive again. I doubt it will ever re-capture the ethos of Jung, Suzuki and Scholem et. al.. And given that Gershom Scholem was a pre-eminent (founder perhaps) of Kabbalah studies and pre-eminent 'Jew' you can be sure if Campbell or Jung were anti-Semites it would preclude him being so important at Eranos. In fact I am certain that no real adept or scholar is racist at all. But those who throw words at others saying out of context things which their feeble mind cannot comprehend - you decide who is prejudiced.

    I have had occasion to be hurled on the dungheap of anti-Semitism and it angers me more than a little as I am sure it did Jung and Campbell. Others who knew him most intimately are more vocal on the matter and provide excellent proof of the NONsense which has been fomented and which probably included Freud who Jung said was "fearful of psychic spirituality" or words to that effect. Certainly the Freudians were envious as you will see if you read the next link.

    The Eddas and sagas of all clans and segments of the Keltoi have roots in the First Reich or Vaner era around the movement back to ancestral homelands at the end of the last Ice Age. It is possible there are remnants of even earlier myths developed and maintained. The poets or Bairds (Kapnobatai and other names in other languages) kept these oral traditions alive for many millennia. This is the Qabala which also included healing arts, math, poetry, divination and all things Oghamic (later Runic, for the Norse). It was a good thing in the time before Empire because people needed to know their relatives in far away places still shared the same culture before they sent their children away for education or business.

    Today we have more believers in Dragons (reptoids) and the Grail myths than ever, perhaps. The Gaedhilic (Norse) Gnostics and the Kabbalists are both enjoying this attention. I am OK with studying these things and happy to see Madonna and many others getting something from it. But replacing one set of falsehoods or demons with another is not good. We need to realize it is all 'within'! The appeal is great because the archetypes and symbols of what became edited into the Bible is basically the same. That is what Campbell proved and the reason George Lucas used his work for a new and powerful franchise called Star Wars.

  5. #5
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    Jan 2015
    In a book on Goethe and revolution we have many secret societies documented in heated conflict even though they might all be part of the Masonic octopus. I hope you read it (or what the look in provides). Remember as you see Paine's book selling well in England and not well on the continent that French Masons of this era did not accept the proposition of the soul's existence. The Royals of England and their cousins on the continent had long engaged in war, and up until this time and Napoleon they would cease activities of war to share tea and ladies or whatever fun - at night. Thus it is extremely difficult to say the Jacobins or Jacobites and Johannites and Rosicrucians were really committed to any present cause. The Hibernians of Paine and Blake who influenced Thomas Carlyle along with Goethe seem an exception, their commitment to the Rights of Man and The Age of Reason is paramount. Jefferson credited Paine (who was a member of the American Rosicrucian Council of Three with Franklin, who we saw was in Goethe's group or research) with the Declaration of Independence. So all in all I say anyone railing against Illuminism is biting the hand that fed them.

    Oh, and I almost forgot - Thomas Carlyle is also called a Nazi. I guess if these people are Nazis - I am too.

    You also should know the eugenics involvement of Americans and others who backed Hitler and these 'cleansing' programs.


    It was not until after the Nuremberg Trials that the rest of the world put the kinds of protections in place that had already been in place for a long time in Germany but we are found accusing Germans of the heinous crimes we actually lead. It is just like Mackenzie King in Canada who was backing Hitler and his programs in many areas, along with other blue bloods like the Bushes and their bosses the Merovingians.

    “Beginning in 1907, with legislation passed in Indiana, forced sterilization on the basis of eugenic doctrine began spreading across the United States, with finally thirty states having such laws on the books. In this century, upwards of 50,000 Americans have been sterilized by order of the state. {Today we have drugs that reduce the libido or sex drive and potency of the less fortunate and victimized masses. These drugs and lobotomies which are still performed in Canada serve the same purposes.} The constitutionality of such compulsion was upheld in 1927, when the case Buck vs. Bell went before the Supreme Court. With only one dissent, the court said, in a majority opinion written by Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes:

    ‘It is better for the world, if instead of waiting to execute offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes.’

    The court, in other words, went beyond saying that a person is guilty until proven innocent; it declared that hypothetical persons were presumed guilty of criminal intent even before being conceived and may not be brought into existence. The 1927 decision has never been overturned, and is still a part of the law of the land.

    After World War II, German lawyers defending those accused of being Nazi war criminals for having forcibly sterilized two million people as a part of Nazi racial doctrine pointed to the sterilization laws in America and the 1927 Supreme Court decision as justification for their clients' conduct.

    In his recent book, The Nazi Connection: Eugenics, American Racism and National Socialism, Stefan Kühl traces the relationships between the Nazi racial theorists and members of the American eugenics movement in the 1930s. American eugenicists and German advocates of "racial hygiene" were already communicating and sharing ''scientific'' information before the First World War. The conflict in Europe, and particularly American entry into the war against Germany, broke off all such ties. But shortly after the war's end, contacts began to reemerge, with their American colleagues being especially helpful in getting German eugenicists accepted back into their community of scholars.

    Throughout the 1920s, the German proponents of racial sterilization drew upon the arguments of their American counterparts, using data the American eugenicists had collected to justify the case for distinguishing between "superior" and "inferior" racial types; they also made the case that America was more enlightened and progressive in its racial policies, since numerous American states had passed sterilization laws, while German law was "backward" in its narrow defense of individual rights that frustrated equivalent German legislation.

    With Hitler's coming to power in 1933, Germany's racial hygienists came into their own, with institutes for race science and research being established or expanded. They solicited articles by many of the leading American eugenicists for their "scholarly" journals, translated many of their works into German, and gave them wide distribution. The Nazis used these American books and articles to demonstrate that they were not alone in the world in advocating compulsory racial improvement and purity.

    A number of American eugenicists happily cooperated. Harry L. Laughlin, who authored the "model" sterilization law for Virginia that was then copied by several other states, saw his proposals explicitly implemented in Germany's 1933 Hereditary Health Law, that prohibited racial intermarriage and codified forced sterilization in the new Germany. As a tribute, the University of Heidelberg awarded Laughlin an honorary degree in 1936, which he enthusiastically accepted.

    Even in the late 1930s and early 1940s Science Articles, some American eugenics publications refused to criticize Nazi race policy in general or legal persecution of the Jews in particular. Some of the leading eugenicists argued that to do so would be to unjustifiably mix science with politics.” (4)

    The leader of the House Un-American Activities lynching was John Stennis who kept the real Holocaust(s) alive in his words ‘They Killed our Savior’ long after Nuremberg where the Nazis were not allowed to mount certain Synarchy defenses that might have educated the world about the truth of what happened in Germany (and Russia).
    Last edited by R_Baird; 01-25-2016 at 04:19 AM.

  6. #6
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    Jan 2015
    Pragmatic outcomes demand different decisions when a country is recovering in the middle of a worldwide depression from when that country has inequitable wealth distribution and feudal despotism. Jefferson and Rumford faced different forces and took advantage of different opportunities. Rumford created soup kitchens and taught people to work and increased productivity in Bavaria (Did Hitler learn from this?) whereas Jefferson offered free land for willing workers after the Louisiana Purchase or gift was given him.

    There are many words with varied interpretations flung around in political forums and economics classes. When you hear laissez-faire you might think of Adam Smith and the Physiocrats but if you look closer you find he catered to an elite he would not dare question. It really was not progressive or producing creative application of resources inclusive of people and money to maximize gross product or happiness. It was not good government or even less government. Slogans are heard and realities are witnessed.

    In considering the word communism I see Israeli Kibbutzim and Porto Allegre, Brazil exemplify that type of people focused ideology for me. But other people call it anarchy when people decide what their future will be. Stalin was never communist and he could in fact be a proxy for special interests including capitalists like Armand Hammer and the oligarchs who got the industry and tell me where the Russian gold reserves disappeared when the USSR split.

    China is a command economy with rampant corruption and it has a right to fear the west which not long ago forced Opium upon it's people and drove it into ruination through that and other military means.

    Japan has 30 companies and government (MITI) deciding prices to maintain a low standard of living for the masses but the news reports tell you about the average income and other statistics which are not comparable to what people in the Americas would be able to do with that kind of money. Ralph Nader tried to get grocery co-ops off the ground to lower costs and make people richer in real terms. The Kaibatsu boys threatened to black ball those who joined his co-ops.

    Most of the rest of the world's major economies are socialist but called capitalist.

    Hitler's Germany lead the world in productivity and employment as well as other quality of life issues excluding the matter of propaganda. It is debateable if we are just as brainwashed in the present. Certainly the technology threatens us more today - and Patriot Act II gives more real power to Homeland Security and other alphabet soup agencies than anything Germany devised.

    So we are left with a new globalizing economy. The matter of localizing decision making in the manner Alvin Toffler and other futurists said is needed has not happened. The decisions are still made too far away from where the money comes from (Cities) and where real problems exist. We do not benefit from militaristic expenditures on spying and other destructive outcomes. The economic multiplier of such things is far less than good things to help each other.

    Full employment is not necessary what we should strive for is maximal production and such things as implementing technology alongside minimum guaranteed incomes (Galbraith for one, or flat tax with negative income tax). If people do things they enjoy and have all their needs taken care of - the cost of managing them with drugs and police systems is greatly diminished. If they break laws then re-habilitation can be aided with withdrawing the income rather than threats against personal safety. Friedman and Korten can waffle all they want but I have yet to see a new plan. What 'inalienable rights" (guns, bearing kids the individual cannot care for, religion etc.) are worth considering?

    "Sustainable Globalization accepts that what Friedman calls the “electronic herd” (the big multinational corporations, plus millions of investors moving money around the world electronically) is here to stay. He goes further and says the electronic herd can be a good thing, inducing governments to maintain low rates of inflation, shrink bureaucracies, lower tariffs, produce balanced budgets, introduce democratic freedoms, etc.

    He gives a bittersweet name to such measures -- the “golden straitjacket.” Because unless governments take such measures, which are often unpopular with the folks back home, but which are probably wise in the long run, corporations and investors tend to shy away.

    So Friedman accepts corporate-driven globalization. At the same time, he thinks it’s our job -- literally, America’s job -- to “make sure that globalization is sustainable.” He devotes big chunks of his book to suggesting ways we can help other nations preserve local cultures and the environment and enhance economic opportunity for all.

    Here's how Korten might respond to Friedman:

    “Tom -- you don’t mind if I call you Tom? Tom, you are capitalism’s man.

    “Capitalism is a cancer, and I don’t mean that just as a metaphor. Capitalist globalization is destroying the Earth, and if you spent less time in luxury hotel rooms you’d maybe notice that fact. . . .

    “I believe in a mindful economic marketplace, one that favors human-scale businesses and makes producers bear the full costs of their decisions. But we aren’t even enforcing our anti-trust laws today! Couldn’t be that our government’s in the pocket of the big corporations, could it, Tom? . . .

    “I want the big corporations to be broken up, and to be replaced by small enterprises owned by local stakeholders such as workers, managers, suppliers, customers, and community residents. (Do you live anywhere, Tom?) And I want government power to devolve down to the lowest and smallest units appropriate to that function.

    “Don’t get me wrong. I want One World as much as you do. But I don’t want any part of a world dominated by your greedy ‘electronic herd’ and its appalling ‘golden straitjacket.’ . . .

    “And tell me, truly -- in your heart of hearts -- wouldn’t you like to see a planetary civilization animated not by McDonald’s and American military might, but by governments, communities, NGOs and small-scale industries cooperating in carefully targeted ways for mutual benefit?”"

  7. #7
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    Jan 2015
    We must look closely at the likes of super-agents and spies like Thomas Paine, St. Germain, Count Rumford, Jean Lafitte and Pierre Dupont de Nemours during the French and American Revolutions. Their allegiance is not to any one country but rather to supranational forces leading to the things we have today in the Fed, IMF and Economic Unions. These Revolutions were planned and part of the creation of a New World Order that is becoming more powerful but it was not really a new order. The Roman Empire never really fell; power became concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people. The same was true with the Sons of Aeneas (Julius Caesar was one.) in Rome when they defeated Greece or when the Hyksos inter-married with leaders in their Egyptian colony.

    The Hittites are the Hatti and origins of Berbers too, according to Stuart historians I have quoted in other threads. They trace themselves to these ancient people and indeed all white people come from the Caucasus- so why not?

    So what can be said about Leonardo's leadership of The Priory of Sion and how many of these leaders were Stuart Royals or appointed by the same? Can you believe those Royals knew who were in their family back to Scythia, Persia and Ba'albek or Dolni Vestonici? Please browse those words here to see threads on them.

    Many myth-makers needed to give people easy answers so those people could be ruled. THAT is so obvious as to be a non-issue and yet it seems people love to invent a conspiracy of aliens and elites who work against the poor pitiful humans. Fact is - most humans are poor and pitiful because they are not illuminated! They do not seek enlightenment! Then along comes a little knowledge in history and voila - you have the terrible family of Jesus (Merovingians) or Illuminati. If history taught us a little factual insight and questioning technique we would delve deeper and find the family of Jesus has been with us before the Trojan War mentioned in this link that includes the Chattti or Hatti which the Stuart Royal historians freely admit they are descended from over 20,000 years ago. We would soon know all white people are from the same source and all races within the whites are not real - but that would mean those who like the alien feature to separate themselves from les autres could not so easily be our priests and kings.

    [In 1124 AD from the most famous Scottish Bloodlines of history leave northern France and Belgium to make home in Scotland. So not so Scottish at all eh! This happened during the reign of the Scottish Kings David 1 and Malcolm 1V between 1124 and 1165. these were classic Scottish names like: Stewart, Seton, Hamilton, Campbell, Douglas, Montgomery, Balliol, Graham, Lindsay, CAMERON and Comyn, all arriving from Northern France and Belgium during this brief time. Please understand I am not saying if you have one of these names you are bad, , but in following the bloodlines it is essential information. It goes without saying they took over Scotland very quickly indeed. Of course this was made possible with the work of the Sinclair family.]

    There is a lot of good potential in a reduction of nations, bureaucracy and the attendant corruption but the new structures are not addressing the ethical issues according to experts including The Club of Rome. It is unlikely they can address the ethical malaise if they do not understand the history and our elites that they are a small part or parcel of. There is a reason Lord Mountbatten changed the name of his family to Windsor and he spent all his reading time studying his family tree. In the following timelines there are a lot of nobles mentioned and you will see the Martinists claimed none of their members died under the Guillotine - there is a reason they do not tell us!

    "1700 - 1800 CE
    Birth of the Comte de Saint-Germain (1710).
    Masonic Grand Lodge of England and Druid Order founded (1717).
    First Masonic lodge founded in France (1721)> Benjamin Franklin initiated as Mason (1731).
    Chevalier Alexander Ramsey informs French Masons that they are heirs to the Templar tradition (1736). Roman Church condemns Masonry (1738).
    Birth of Count Cagliostro. Comte de Saint-Germain involved in Jacobite plot to restore Stuart dynasty to the English Throne (1743). Society of Flagellants and Skopski founded in Russia (1750).
    George Washington initiated as a Mason (1752).
    Sir Francis Dashwood founds the Hell Fire Club. Franklin visits England to discuss the future of American colonies with Dashwood (1758).
    Foundation of the Rite of the Strict Observance by Baron von Hund based on the Templar tradition. Frederick of Prussia founds Order of the Architects of Africa and uses the title Illuminati to describe his neo-Masonic lodges (1768).
    Franklin elected Grand Master of the Nine Sisters lodge in Paris (1770).
    Grand Orient founded in France (1771).

    Boston Tea Party (1773).
    Washington appointed Commander-in-Chief of the new American Army (1775).
    Order of Perfectibilists or Illuminati founded. American Revolution (1776).
    Czar Peter founds the Secret Circle (1778).
    Supposed death of the Comte Saint-Germain (1784).
    Grand Masonic Congress allegedly plots French Revolution. Cagliostro involved in Diamond Necklace Affair. Illuminati banned in Bavaria and goes underground (1785).
    French Revolution (1789).
    Illuminist conspiracy to overthrow the Hapsburgs (1794)." (1)

    Hitler was a member of many occult groups and heralded as the Messiah by a Thulean named Eckhart. Then there is the Vril Society of Bulwer-Lytton who influenced Crowley who was in the Nietzschean cult and so on.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-01-2016 at 11:35 AM.

  8. #8
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    Jan 2015
    Many members of the Wehrmacht and German military machine (some even say Albert Speer) did their work with Nazis because they were proud Germans or nationalists, not Nazis. This link deals with Werner Heisenberg.

    And tells us Speer and Hitler were the best of friends trying to build the most beautiful city in Europe - and that Speer maintained he did not know about the atrocities. They do mention in passing that there are other contrary opinions - per usual.

    "No order for a building was too impossible for Hitler to give, and no challenge was too great for Speer to accept. Hitler wanted a new Reichs Chancellery in Berlin, and he ordered that it be one of the largest and most splendid office buildings of its day. Furthermore, he wanted it completed in only one year. With an army of laborers working in day and night shifts, and with Speer handling every detail of the planning and building, the architect finished the great building ahead of schedule. He proved to his fuhrerthat he was an organizer as well as a builder, for the building was ready to be used when Hitler walked in on the first day. If there was any doubt of Speer's skill, it was gone.

    The two men began to plan an entirely new Berlin. They had elaborate models constructed showing various buildings and street layouts. It was planned to be the most beautiful city in all of Europe. World War II stopped the plans, although both Hitler and Speer felt that the delay would be only temporary. Despite later claims to the contrary, Speer had become a dedicated party member who supported whatever Hitler wanted to do."

    The blogspot which follows is very good, I am glad there is so much more addressing these things I dealt with in my books and involvement on the web for five years over a decade ago. It has many other quotes from Hitler and addresses what Jung wrote about Hitler as an archetype or avatar of Wotan.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-27-2016 at 07:44 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Perhaps it will never be fully comprehended why Carlyle said no one (even close friends and biographers like John Ruskin whose life includes what our Rhodes committees and almost all of the political hegemony which the ignocenti call PTB) would ever understand him. I think I have done it - but I could be wrong. One thing I do know is Wikipedia sells schlock and uses words like anti-democratic as if they know what it means or what a good form of human management for all could be. I say Carlyle made his point about the Hero and a beneficent government well. His life was dedicated to exposing the ignorance of our society in history and the plight of the poor who he tried to uplift by personal effort in creating libraries and improving education.

    "Thomas Carlyle (4 December 1795 – 5 February 1881) was a Scottish philosopher, satirical writer, essayist, historian and teacher.[1] Considered one of the most important social commentators of his time, he presented many lectures during his lifetime with certain acclaim in the Victorian era. One of those conferences resulted in his famous work On Heroes, Hero-Worship, and The Heroic in History where he explains that the key role in history lies in the actions of the "Great Man", claiming that "History is nothing but the biography of the Great Man".

    A respected historian in his day, his 1837 book The French Revolution: A History was the inspiration for Dickens' 1859 novel A Tale of Two Cities, and remains popular today. Carlyle's 1836 novel Sartor Resartus is considered one of the finest works of the nineteenth century. {He employed the Green Languages like Swift who he credited greatly - and thus it took time to be understood.}

    A great polemicist, Carlyle coined the term "the dismal science" for economics.[2] He also wrote articles for the Edinburgh Encyclopedia,[3] and his Occasional Discourse on the Negro Question (1849) remains controversial.[4] Once a Christian, Carlyle lost his faith while attending the University of Edinburgh, later adopting a form of Deism.[5] His philosophy, combined with his appreciation of the German culture, the Norse mythology and his anti-democratic views, is considered by some a prelude for fascism."

    Oscar Wilde is quoted in many places and his thought is usually great, but when the proper context and era are not included it can be outlandish and as weird as he would appear in a good Baptist Evangelical meeting. That being true you can wonder why those are the born again conspiracy nuts who quote him in the raving which passes for truth on such web sites as they call Truther.

    Oscar, as always, was right on the money with his observation of the 'hunting' class - "the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable".

    I suppose it is good that people watch videos like Royal Babylon and get their entertainment but with these people not actually reading or studying anything - what we get would soon be worse than slavery.

    I suppose his intellectualism and freedom loving nature and wit could win over even the dumbest of rocks or believers in things they accept without evidence. But here we have him supporting the insight of Goethe a father of the Bavarian Illuminati in a speech which includes an awareness of how revolution created a vacuum after removal of the monarchs and lead quickly back to a new more powerful controlling scholasticism and governance represented by Napoleon. The Millennium issue of The Economist correctly observed it was the advent of Napoleon's 'standing armies' which created our present cruel state of world affairs.

    That does not mean Napoleon's legacy of a revamped legal and government had no merit - it definitely was a step forward, but would Wilde prefer a world of armed insurrection and synarchy powered by militarists to a world which artists and intellectuals offered a way forward, I doubt he would.

    "The English Renaissance of Art

    AMONG the many debts which we owe to the supreme aesthetic faculty of Goethe is that he was the first to teach us to define beauty in terms the most concrete possible, to realise it, I mean, always in its special manifestations. So, in the lecture which I have the
    honour to deliver before you, I will not try to give you any abstract definition of beauty - any such universal formula for it as was sought for by the philosophy of the eighteenth century - still less to communicate to you that which in its essence is incommunicable, the virtue by which a particular picture or poem affects us with a unique and special joy; but rather to point out to you the general ideas which characterise the great English Renaissance of Art in this century, to discover their source, as far as that is possible, and to estimate their future as far as that is possible.

    I call it our English Renaissance because it is indeed a sort of new birth of the spirit of man, like the great Italian Renaissance
    of the fifteenth century, in its desire for a more gracious and comely way of life, its passion for physical beauty, its exclusive
    attention to form, its seeking for new subjects for poetry, new forms of art, new intellectual and imaginative enjoyments: and I call it our romantic movement because it is our most recent expression of beauty."

    Yes, the Enlightenment Experiment fostered in the American and French Revolutions was a lot like the Renaissance and the same people were involved - the Stuart Royal Society. There are many secret societies associated with them, and their are people covering their asses and making contingency plans as well. Goethe and the Rothschilds were there at William of Hesse's castle along with the even more Illuminated St. Germain who is a royal and a de Medicis I could liken to the King-Maker Catherine de Medicis, who was a member of the Alumbrados.

    Alumbrados is translated as Illuminati or enlightened Brotherhood. Are all these elites a force to fear for the more than five millennia I trace them working together? Did she know why their attempt to help the Cathars failed?

    But returning to dear Oscar we find he is likened to another great scholar of Illuminism in the Goethe to Carlyle lineage some have likened to Nazism. This man directly controlled what became the Rhodes Committees and scholarships. A man as large as life in the annals of our present governance - Cecil Rhodes. But how many were involved in making Rhodes what he was other than his Professor John Ruskin. You also must question whether his Committees and the likes of the Council on Foreign Relations or Tri-Lateralists are all bad. If you decide they are bad you must be prepared with a plan for something better than these wise people and studious workers came up with to take us out of the Dark Ages the born agains would love us to be thrown backwards into.

    ""In all unimportant matters, style, not sincerity, is the essential. In all important matters, style, not sincerity, is the essential." -Oscar Wilde, in The Chameleon

    Looking past the often hyperbolic and flippant tone of Oscar Wilde's aesthetic theories in "The Decay of Lying" (text), one finds that many of them copy or closely resemble those of John Ruskin. This similarity presents a peculiar challenge: how could Ruskin, so closely associated with the Pre-Raphaelites and concerned with society's relation to art, influence an aesthetic movement that attempted to divorce art from anything but itself? Looking purely at the content of Wilde's aesthetic theories, one cannot find any practical departure from Ruskin. But if one measures Wilde's "The Decay of Lying" by its form and technique, Wilde indeed presents a "new aestheticism": the virtue of his wit and style trump concerns over the originality of his ideas. Examining Ruskin, Wilde and aestheticism in terms of the sincerity of their dialogue poses important implications for discussions of the artists associated with each thinker. The Pre-Raphaelites Brotherhood associated with Ruskin reflects his sincerity in their beliefs and works. Similarly, Wilde helped to foster the self-aware pursuit of shock and escape from bourgeois standards that characterized so many Aesthetes and Decadents."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-19-2016 at 05:26 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    No doubt there are people who think I am possessed by a Cathar demon or deluded about what I say about Illuminized people like Goethe. In Symbolical Masonry - an important Masonic book by Haywood we have these words in support of what I say.

    "Symbolical Masonry, by H.L. Haywood, [1923], at




    "Where were you prepared?" The answer made to that question opens for our vision a way into one of the secrets of Freemasonry. We must prepare ourselves in order to receive any teaching whatsoever, for we see only, as Goethe has expressed it, "that which we carry in our hearts." For this reason many of the Ancient Mysteries insisted on a long period of preparation, as do many churches to-day. For the same reason the Masonic lodge should see to it that the candidate is as fully prepared in mind as he is in body before he is given admittance to the door. In some parts of Europe, I have been told, an experienced Master Mason is appointed sponsor, or godfather, to a candidate; and lodges of instruction are held in which the petitioner is taught something of the history and principles of the Order. Surely this is a wise custom! Many a man—you yourself, perhaps, were one, as was I—has stepped into the First Degree without the slightest inkling of what "it was all about," with the consequence that he has been too bewildered to know whether to laugh or to cry. And how often it happens that a candidate passes from one degree to another as rapidly as he can learn the lectures, moving all the while in too great haste to comprehend the simplest rudiments of the great ideas and teachings that are dramatically presented to him moment after moment! To be "prepared in the heart" means that within one's own mind and feelings he is experiencing the meaning of that which he does and sees; if a candidate is hustled along too rapidly to be able to have any such understanding of the degrees, how can it be said that he is duly and truly prepared to be a Master Mason?

    The Ritual itself is wise in these connections because it recognises the fact that a man must be prepared in the heart as well as in the preparation room. Except a man's mood be right, except his will be in the appropriate attitude, except he act from true motives, and in a reverent prayerful frame of mind, the "work" will be to him as meaningless as an old wives’ tale. It is necessary that every lodge arrange to prepare the candidate's mind by previous instruction; and it is equally necessary that it build about the preparation room a wall of secrecy and sanctity in order to ward off the jest or careless word that may lead a candidate to approach the door in light or flippant mood.

    Being in Masonic ignorance, a seeker after light, and a representative of the natural untaught man, it is fitting that the candidate be made to walk in darkness by wearing the hoodwink which Mackey has well described as "a symbol of secrecy, silence, darkness, in which the mysteries of our art should be preserved from the unhallowed gaze of the profane." The use of the blindfold goes far back among secret societies, even to the Ancient Mysteries, in which the candidate was usually made to enter the sanctuary with eyes covered.

    The Cathari, whom Innocent III tried so hard to annihilate, and who were at bottom Christian mystics, were accustomed to call those seeking initiation into their mysteries "hoodwinked slaves," implying that the eyes of the soul were still blind in ignorance and lust. Our own use of the device is in harmony with these old customs and ideas. The purpose of the hoodwink is not to conceal something from the candidate, for it has another significance: it symbolises the fact that the candidate is yet in darkness, like the babe lying in its mother's womb. Being in darkness the candidate is expected to prepare his inmost mind for those revelations that will be made to him after the hoodwink is removed."

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