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Thread: Pythagoras

  1. #1
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    Pythagoras

    I know I have written extensively about this great sage, druid and alchemist in many threads including Abaris (rabbi) the Druid. I was surprised to see I had no thread for only him, he is central to so much about sacred geometry and many secret societies are founded on his knowledge (They say). I even go so far as to say the Therapeutae of Pythagoras are instrumental in the Essenes and Theraveda Buddhists.

    We know the earth is not flat and we all should know who and why was involved in promoting that fiction starting perhaps with the tutor in the house of Constantine named Lactantius. Constantine was a Mithras worshipper but he is said to be the editor of the Bible and he sold out any knowledge or philosophy in order to make the Empire what it is as it grew after every fall. Yes, it grew in power and in profit for the ever fewer people who got their share or whatever they could grab from the rest of the world. Eratosthenes was involved directly with the Great Library and though Pythagoras was a little before it, his work in Egypt at the Great Pyramid is known in many ways and in many of his theories including sacred geometry. Here is a little of what remains to us about the great sage.

    "Diogenes has preserved one extraordinarily interesting paraphrase of Alexander Polyhistor, concerning the Pythagorean idea of numbers as the elements of the universe:


    The beginning of all is unity (monas); unity is a cause of indefinite duality as a matter; both unity and indefinite duality are sources of the numbers; the points are proceeding from numbers; the lines - from the points; from the lines are plane figures; from plane are volumetric figures; from them - sensibly acceptable solids, in which four elements are - fire, water, earth, and air; moving and changing totally, they give rise to the universe - inspired, intelligent, spherical, in the middle of which is the earth; and the earth is also spherical and inhabited from all sides. [DL, VIII, 25]
    Here and elsewhere Alexander expounds Pythagorean doctrines. (It is interesting to mention that Alexander states that he found all his information in some Pythagorean notes, and an addition to these notes made by Aristotle [DL, VIII, 36]). However, straight evaluation of Alexander himself as a Pythagorean does not follow from the quote. Also, the "catalogue of the Pythagoreans" by the Neo-Platonist Iamblichus [On Pythagorean Life 267] includes 218 persons, but Alexander's name is absent. Most likely, he was an erudite scholar, well-informed of different philosophical schools. It is proved by his nickname and his use of the genre of "successions of philosophers," as well as references in other of Diogenes' books, unrelated to Pythagoreanism."


    http://www.iep.utm.edu/alexpoly/


    My perspective on unity and Pythagorean sacred geometry includes this:

    a) The all inclusive first matter referred to by Plato is the Logos or Harmonic which is like String Theory's one-dimensional harmonic force which is the substrate for all matter and energy. It has knowledge akin to a tincture and is ordered even if Chaos is apparent.

    b) The first sounds are in every sound (substrate, or dimensional bandwidths) but a cascade can occur with proper direction and heal or do the opposite - see Tepaphone or Pythagoras's Therapeutae healing which was incorporated into the Essenes or Qumran community.

    c) The Circadian Rhythms of Nature and the Mandelbrot designs along with the Nautilus shell PHI illustrate the natural existence of energy flow which may result in things like Crop Circles which reverberate from ancient DNN arts later called Bardic or Bairdic and which exist in Ogham's five dialects. In fact through shamanic attunement (at-one-ment) all knowledge is available as Paracelsus said about a cure for every disease is available in nature.

    d) As one becomes aware of the As Above one learns it is within or So Below. This is not my forte among the three Magian Laws. But RIGHT THOUGHT requires a comprehension of it. There is no idea or discipline which trained attunement can not add to - in RIGHT ACTION or what Teilhard de Chardin called Templates and Bucky called creative realization.

    Abaris is a real person with credible accounts of his visits to Greece. He was the last Dean of Studies in the remnant Bairdic Education or Druidic system including Pythagoras who was initiated near Marseilles (Massallia - a Phoenician emporiae, Phocaea is a Phoenician name) at a Druidic University. Abaris is a title meaning Rabbi or teacher.

    http://www.witchcraftandwitches.com/witches_abaris.html
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-26-2016 at 11:22 PM.

  2. #2
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    I wonder if the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy website would like my thoughts on Pythagoras. At the end of this you will see they say they want a replacement article. Somehow I doubt they would.

    "It is stated that he was a disciple of Anaximander, his astronomy was the natural development of Anaximander's. Also, the way in which the Pythagorean geometry developed also bears witness to its descent from that of Miletos. The great problem at this date was the duplication of the square, a problem which gave rise to the theorem of the square on the hypotenuse, commonly known still as the Pythagorean proposition (Euclid, I. 47). If we were right in assuming that Thales worked with the old 3:4:5 triangle, the connection is obvious.

    Pythagoras argued that there are three kinds of men, just as there are three classes of strangers who come to the Olympic Games. The lowest consists of those who come to buy and sell, and next above them are those who come to compete. Best of all are those who simply come to look on. Men may be classified accordingly as lovers of wisdom, lovers of honor, and lovers of gain. That seems to imply the doctrine of the tripartite soul, which is also attributed to the early Pythagoreans on good authority, though it is common now to ascribe it to Plato. There are, however, clear references to it before his time, and it agrees much better with the general outlook of the Pythagoreans. The comparison of human life to a gathering like the Games was often repeated in later days. Pythagoras also taught the doctrine of Rebirth or transmigration, which we may have learned from the contemporary Orphics. Xenophanes made fun of him for pretending to recognize the voice of a departed friend in the howls of a beaten dog. Empedocles seems to be referring to him when he speaks of a man who could remember what happened ten or twenty generations before. It was on this that the doctrine of Recollection, which plays so great a part in Plato, was based. The things we perceive with the senses, Plato argues, remind us of things we knew when the soul was out of the body and could perceive reality directly.

    There is more difficulty about the cosmology of Pythagoras. Hardly any school ever professed such reverence for its founder's authority as the Pythagoreans. 'The Master said so' was their watchword. On the other hand, few schools have shown so much capacity for progress and for adapting themselves to new conditions. Pythagoras started from the cosmical system of Anaximenes. Aristotle tells us that the Pythagoreans represented the world as inhaling 'air' form the boundless mass outside it, and this 'air' is identified with 'the unlimited'. When, however, we come to the process by which things are developed out of the 'unlimited', we observe a great change. We hear nothing more of 'separating out' or even of rarefaction and condensation. Instead of that we have the theory that what gives form to the Unlimited is the Limit. That is the great contribution of Pythagoras to philosophy, and we must try to understand it. Now the function of the Limit is usually illustrated from the arts of music and medicine, and we have seen how important these two arts were for Pythagoreans, so it is natural to infer that the key to its meaning is to be found in them.

    It may be taken as certain that Pythagoras himself discovered the numerical ratios which determine the concordant intervals of the musical scale. Similar to musical intervals, in medicine there are opposites, such as the hot and the cold, the wet and the dry, and it is the business of the physician to produce a proper 'blend' of these in the human body. In a well-known passage of Plato's Phaedo (86 b) we are told by Simmias that the Pythagoreans held the body to be strung like an instrument to a certain pitch, hot and cold, wet and dry taking the place of high and low in music. Musical tuning and health are alike means arising from the application of Limit to the Unlimited. It was natural for Pythagoras to look for something of the same kind in the world at large. Briefly stated, the doctrine of Pythagoras was that all things are numbers. In certain fundamental cases, the early Pythagoreans represented numbers and explained their properties by means of dots arranged in certain 'figures' or patterns.

    Author Information

    The author of this article is anonymous. The IEP is actively seeking an author who will write a replacement article."

  3. #3
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    I am pretty sure I have a lot more evidence that the Phoenicians deserve more credit than their colonies, like Greece; than Professor Martin Bernal who probably has more about their 'brothers' in Africa going back even longer. The mother of Pythagoras is recognized as a Phoenician but I suspect his father was part of the same people. if only because the Greeks were founded by the Danaus or Homer's DN who are Phoenician or other names for the same people.

    Professor Martin Bernal in his great book Black Athena confirms Balabanova's forensic proof of cocaine in Egyptian mummies from Peru. Necho II of Egypt paid or engaged Phoenician ships to come to the Americas and his fellow Pharaohs the Hyksos (Foreigners or returning colonizers) are Phoenicians or Pelasgi as their titles do say. The royal purple of great spiritual value to Emperors over many millennia came from the Mexican purpura shells as well as the Murex shell of the Mediterranean. Harvard's Peabody Museum had a great researcher named Zelia Nuttall who proved it was far better than the Murex shell which had to be destroyed to get the dye.

    You should enjoy thinking about them and making your own decision. We all need a healthy dose of critical thinking in order to overcome the religious element or propaganda that infests so many present worldwide nations. The Indians of North America knew we couldn't own God or nature and they had no real border crossings. Their ethics and laws were similar and sometimes identical to the ideals of the Kelts or Osianic and post-Atlantean culture. They had the purple dye of the Phoenicians and cotton clothes. They were much more than we are led to believe. We have mentioned the meaning of 'phre' in the ancient Irish or Keltic language as presented by an obscure Masonic author named MacDari from 1923. It began my serious researches into the 'followers of Finn and the Fianna' or the 'Phoenicians' as Dr. D. J. Conway and others know them. All the linguistic data and expertise makes a lot of sense to those who research these things but the average person can only intuit their importance. 'Phre' or 'Free' and the Masonic roots that are traceable to Tuthmosis and even more ancient culture are an interesting story. These ancients knew 'sun' worship was also the worship of the 'son' of God and that all 'free' men and women were divine in their soul just as all life is part of God. These ideals were vibrant and alive among the Iroquois before Columbus, in a time long after the Hopewell civilization had incorporated into the Iroquois people after 500 AD and became known as the 'Megwi'. The Mediwiwin are Masonic Indians and I suspect Joseph Brant's father and earlier ancestors knew it full well. The Iroquois Confederation and the US Constitutional Government are similar and from the same people.

    This seemingly incredible connection saw the spiritual leaders of this culture who we know as Isis and Osiris founded Memphis in 36,000 B.C. according to the Egyptian priest/historian Manetho. His work is augmented by the discovery of a 35,000 year old deep mine in Egypt within the last few years, but his times are not accurate and his history highly suspect. But could Lake Memphremagog really have been a mining colony of Memphis and the Biblical land of Magog where Gog ruled?

    The Phoenician 'emporiae' or trading posts are relevant to a time long before the Christian mystery schools like Rosicrucianity. They are linked to the presentation of Sumer and the alien reptoids called Annunaki by such recent authors as Laurence Gardner (Genesis of the Grail Kings), but the story in its entirety is far more than any three books can tell. We cannot accept the Euro-centric efforts of propagandists who have built their history upon the psychological warfare of the Roman Empire and related British Empire. We must pierce these tales once thought to be history and discover the truth of legends that bring us the archaeologic proof which satellites have played an important part in uncovering. From Yonaguni to Kidmet Enrob and Caral of Peru, there are so many great proofs and evidences that only a few years ago were deemed myth or outright fiction.

    How many have heard about brushite and Murrhine vases? There have always been people who had more knowledge and knew it empowered them. http://biology-articles.blogspot.ca/search?q=brushite

    Our search for the origins of man and his culture includes the 6,000,000 year-old humans who were not related to australopithecines and a plethora of multi-disciplinary proof from all areas of science. There truly have been many legends created to make sheep out of mankind. The steel or iron stelae that has stood on the land of present-day India (Pillar of Asoka that was there before him) for millennia before the supposed 'Iron Age', brings proof of metallurgical secret knowledge. It can hardly be overlooked while it rises 150 feet above the landscape of the lush sub-continent that has experienced far less upheaval from glacial and other natural changes than most of the world. There are Armenian/Phoenician metalworkers that many scholars say could harden copper long before other humans (at least 7000 BC). They may have gotten their ingredients for the Damascus Swords from the sub-continent, according to a recent detailed investigation in Scientific American. It wasn't until the 20th Century that science could duplicate this carbon based steel with such a fine cutting edge that makes one think of the legends of King Arthur's sword and trusted companion Excalibur. To give copper a cutting edge was as important as the malleable metal ores themselves. Of course copper swords are not what later Excalibur swords would be, but when they were the best swords the legends grew.

    The prophecy of Ezekiel and the invaders who might bring the end of the world is really talking about the people of Armenia/Pont from the Anatolian shores of the Black Sea. This appears to be long after the waters of the Mediterranean rushed in to create the Black Sea in 5500 BC. However, there is reason to believe the people of the Don and Danube or other earlier glacial rivers that flowed north had been the dominant force for thousands of years. Are they this longtime prophetic group of the land of Magog? Check into Dolni Vestonici to see how metals alloys came about in the process of making pottery - almost 30,000 years ago.

  4. #4
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    Since Pythagoras was around before Poseidonius I feel confident he knew the history of his Milesian Phoenician culture even better than what remains in quotes of the now destroyed or Hellenized books of Poseidonius. I am not the only scholar who thinks Poseidonius's home on the island of Rhodes with the Colossus honoring Helios and the Heliopolitans or Phoenicians, was where the ship with the astrolabe now called the Antikythera Mechanism came from, I hope I live to see more research conducted or disclosed about it.

    Since Pythagoras studied the same knowledge it is possible his people or forbears developed this technology. Thales had a steam engine and he is one of those forbears.

    One of the most advanced integrations of sacred geometry, astrology and geodesics we have found (other than the megalithic ring of Earth Grid energy stations perhaps) is the Antikythera.

    http://www.antikythera-mechanism.gr/bibliography

    Drilling into the above link lead me to an update on the archaeological underwater research still going on at the shipwreck site but no discussion about the full meaning I suspect is in this ancient computer due to Ogham mathematical insights leading to Georges Boule's binary math which is the basis of present day computers. I had at least hoped to see discourse about Rhodes and Poseidonius who had kept a lot of prior cultural knowledge in books he wrote which were necessarily destroyed by Empire.

    http://www.ascsa.edu.gr/index.php/ne...at-antikythera

    The sacerdotal architectural math in the language Hebrew leads to math in every letter known as gematria, there is probably much more to be learned from this one object but why are people not really researching how astrolabes lead the ancients to places where metals and energy were abundant? Yes, it was an attunement device or dowsing aid as well, I think.

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    One of the confusing things for authors who write about the Essenes or Therapeutae is the interest they had in celibacy. Once you find a true co-creator you will have much more pleasure and wisdom. I feel very confidant that Pythagoras the Druid experienced this in his life, probably more than once. This is a good thing if you want true sexual and total union of the Soul or Bhakti. The Reality Matrix e-book says these words.

    "Ideally a couple will come together and form a "sacred union" using the alchemical power of sex ('The Secret Gate to Eden') to help each other with the mutual goal of becoming more conscious. Then an individuated couple may go on to co-create a new child and these will be the children of the golden age bringing a new enlightened consciousness to Earth (associated with the inter- generational inheritance of consciousness on a collective level). Celibacy can be a natural part of the process of individuation or reformation of the psyche however when it becomes part of a strict moral code or religious teaching which is enforced for a lifetime it is usually an attempt to maintain intrapsychic separation from an increasingly negative collective unconscious and was historically more successful in the past.

    It is important for the collective unconscious to understand how sex relates to the flow of psychic energy, symmetry, and to conscious threshold within people otherwise it becomes a negative and used for control and to lower the collective consciousness and vibratory frequency.

    Akiane: child prodigy - http://youtu.be/jQlZv29E4_0

    How to initiate the process of individuation

    The whole process centers around connecting the conscious and unconscious. Develop a healthy ego, free yourself from rigid dogmatic thinking, practice regular meditation and connect with Gaia, avoid self destructive behaviors, self-education, mandalas, use active imagination, dream journaling, view / create art, sacred geometry, initiation ceremonies and immerse yourself in the work of others who have successfully individuated like Leonardo da Vinci, Einstein, Jung, Anastasia, Wingmakers, and indigenous cultures.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-13-2016 at 03:50 PM.

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    In my personal life I have done many things I think Pythagoreans did. I decreed a person born on the same day into my life. She is the Dr. of Psychology I refer to here. I have healed people I love, foretold accurate death dates years in advance for my father, said I would win a nationwide draw to demonstrate what occult intent and a decree can do and more. I put this post here because of the touch healing Deepak Chopra received from a thrice guna (Ayurveda deals with the gunas) doctor. It was known to Pythagoras as well as the Mudras and Mutras these cultures shared.

    Sadly - for people like me, there is an Inquisitorial type of program or what a Dr. of Psychology I lived with called 'fear and jealousy'. She said that after talking with my older brother not some Christian trying to see the Devil Incarnate in me. Dr. Gray who wrote Men are from Mars (Women from Venus) wrote a book after that best-seller and he identified how one person will be turned into a 'psychic drain' in every family or organizational unit. This alienating agenda develops when a person expresses their experience even if that experience is lame and tame as far as Psychism goes. True Empathy requires an element of psychic development and not some superficial political correctness. Our world will soon get a lot better if Kaku, Zukav and others win the day.

    The wicked Watchmen Fellows are onto Deepak Chopra as well. Their attempt to defeat what they call New Age knows no bounds. If they win the battle - we would be back in the Dark Ages without a nuclear or biological event.

    "By Jason Barker

    Date of Birth: 1947.

    Publications: Nineteen books, including Ageless Body, Timeless Mind (1993), The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success (1995), The Return of Merlin (1995), The Way of the Wizard (1996), and The Path to Love (1997). Has also published a CD–ROM, Deepak Chopra’s The Wisdom Within (1997). Publishes a monthly newsletter, Deepak Chopra’s Infinite Possibilities for Body, Mind and Soul.

    Organizations: Chopra Center for Well Being, Global Network for Spiritual Success, Quantum Publications, OSI Systems, Inc. (semiconductors). Unique Terms: Quantum soup, ayurveda / mind body medicine, Opti (a line of healthcare products, including OptiMind, OptiCalm, and OptiWoman), infinite possibilities.

    HISTORY

    Deepak Chopra is the oldest son of Krishan Chopra, an Indian cardiologist whose training was personally authorized by Lord Mountbatten.1 Chopra was raised in a family infused with both Western medicine and traditional Hindu beliefs and practices. For example, he describes a conflict over medical practices between his British-trained father and ayurveda-practicing grandfather.2 Following his father’s career in medicine, he graduated from the All India Institute of Medical Sciences in 1968.3 While in medical school, he claims to have seen a Hindu holy man who was voluntarily buried alive; after six days, the man was freed and went on his way.4 Chopra first came to the United States in 1970 to serve an internship at a hospital in New Jersey.5 He followed this internship with a residency and further training at the Lahey Clinic and the University of Virginia Hospital.6 In the early 1980s, he became the chief of staff at New England Memorial Hospital.7

    A major turning point in Chopra’s medical practice and philosophy occurred in 1981, when he returned to New Delhi and met Dr. Brihaspati Dev Triguna, “The preeminent living Ayurvedic physician.”8 Triguna needed only, according to Chopra, to “put three fingers on your wrist…and he knows your whole medical history — past, present, and future.”9 After hearing from Chopra’s friend that Chopra was “a beacon of wisdom” and “one of the most famous doctors” in America, Triguna touched Chopra’s wrist and diagnosed Chopra as “think[ing] too many unnecessary thoughts.”10 Chopra was advised to meditate, spend more time with his family, and chew his food more slowly.11 Chopra did not immediately follow Triguna’s advice. He was continually drinking coffee, smoking a pack of cigarettes each day, and drinking whiskey in the evening to relax.12 Eventually overcoming his previous biases against the Hindu-based mysticism of his native India which might hold the key to alleviating his stress, Chopra became receptive to the message of Transcendental Meditation (TM) that “meditation was an effortless process that led to deeper relaxation.”13 He notes that he was particularly impressed by the sizable amount of research that proves that TM reduces stress.14 Within two weeks he stopped smoking and drinking.15"


    http://www.watchman.org/profiles/pdf/chopraprofile.pdf

    Deepak and Wayne Dyer were on the circuit together and wrote books which were inspired by the likes of Don Juan or the Toltec I think was the last Ovate or Druid. My Dr. of Psychology lady had been on the Stress reduction therapy convention circuit before Chopra and we lived not far from his clinic, but I never met him. Werner (EST) tried to hire her. We both felt TM was a little over the top or a cult. Wayne Dyer had sent me a package including his first book about the time she and I broke up and I met my Ogham mentors who altered my life path immensely.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-19-2016 at 10:53 PM.

  7. #7
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    The Watchman Fellowship I have quoted many times with links to their somewhat correct and yet always wrong interpretation of great thinkers brings us their ideas on Kabbalah being derived from Pythagoras without knowing the Tree of Life in Kabbalah comes from earlier Qabala and Druidic (Pythagoras was one) or Magian roots. Names like the Tree of Yggdrasil show a more elemental tree called Hyperborean just as the head of his studies Abaris (Translates as Rabbi or teacher) the Druid is called by Hecateus. You might also look into the work of Daniel Matt on The Zohar and Moses de Leon to see further errors.

    "This early literature owes much of its content to the ideas of the Greek mathematician and philosopher Pythagoras and his school at Croton, Italy. J. A. West writes,
    “… a much quoted Pythagorean principle was ‘Number is All.’ Creation was described… as the division of the primordial unit into multiplicity and diversity.”
    4

    Other Pythagorean concepts of the soul of man and the problem of sin were adopted:

    …a fallen, polluted divinity incarcerated within the body, as in a tomb…from which it can gain release through ritual purgation, accompanied by ascetic abstinence. Pythagoras…. adopted the idea…of Orphism {He is also a Bard or Druid and some of his writings are thought to be written by Pythagoras.}of a process of bilocation, {An actual witnessed account in both places exists for Pythagoras - it is not just an ascetic process.} according to which the soul could be detached from the body.5 {This would be solar body projection and NOT a material Bi-Location which is what was witnessed.} Add to this the belief in reincarnation {There are many definitions and I say he had a Magian one which they are impugning - it is like Buddhism's many stages or levels>} that Pythagoras brought from his time in Persia.

    The Jewish mystics also at this time added to the belief in the divine nature of numbers, the idea of the archetypal nature of the letters (also practiced by the Pythagoreans) of the Hebrew alphabet. The 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet were assigned numeric values. This is called gematria. The Babylonians used this practice by the 8th century B.C.E and it was later practiced by the Greeks. It was based on a 27-letter alphabet that corresponded to three numeric enneads (1-9, 10-90 and 100-900). {Interesting if true - the Enneagrams are not so simple as gematria.} By the 2nd century C.E. the Jews had developed 22 letters and five dual use letters. The names of God were computed. Words in the Torah with equal values were placed together to find the deeper meaning of God’s Word.6

    The Merkavah mysticism, incorporating the ideas and practices of the Hekhalot and the Sefer Yetzirah, was always a small peripheral stream within mainline Judaism residents in groups like the Essenes, {Headed by the older brother of Yeshua - James - in your Bible and who is the first head of the Christian Church but they adopt the Roman propaganda and deny this historical fact.} best exemplified by the Qumran community. It continued as the main expression of Jewish mysticism until the next major building block came forth in the twelfth century, the Sefer ha-Bahir.

    The Sefer ha-Bahir (Book of Brilliance or Illumination) is considered the first truly Kabbalistic work. {Wrong use of term. This is a response to Romanism and persecution - called Caballah.} It was written or compiled in Provence, France in 1176. Its form was as a set of dialogues among fictional rabbis and students written as questions and answered by parables. It revised the sephirot as being dualistic oppositions; light and darkness, mercy and justice, male and female, etc., that were temporal copies of divine realities. These dualities representing divine archetypes replaced the Hellenist concept of numbers as the primordial emanations. It was a Midrash or commentary on the opening verses of the creation story in Genesis as well as other scriptures. It also taught reincarnation.7 It was extensively used in the next significant text of mystic importance, the Zohar.

    In the 13th century, Moses de Leon, a Jew in Spain, revealed the Zohar. The Zohar reveals that the Unknowable God, Ein Sof, {More like an Akashic Record} can be known only through the emanations called sefiroth. The first of the sefirah is known as Kether and is Nothingness. Nothingness takes on potential as the second sefirah, Hokhmah, or Wisdom. The Pythagorean concept of the number one represented by a single point is de Leon’s Hokhmah. The next sefirah is Binah, Intelligence. Scholem interprets, “In the following Sefirah the point develops into a ‘palace’ or ‘building’ – an allusion to the idea that from this Sefirah, if it is externalized, the ‘building’ of the cosmos proceeds. In it all forms are already preformed, but still preserved in the unity of the divine intellect which contemplates them in itself.”8"

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    Everything you read about Gurdjieff, Masonry, Blake, Hibernians, Green Languages and even Theraveda Buddhism and the Essenes is impacted in a major way by Pythagoras the Druid. It is not remote from your hypotenuses - just kidding.

    http://www.enneagram-monthly.com/pyt...enneagram.html

    I consider the above link as mere trash from an historical viewpoint and you can read what it says if you desire. But this is an important connection to Pythagoras who did not invent anything major as I see it, he was a great integrator of more ancient knowledge which was being destroyed so Empire builders could pass themselves off as great thinkers and such.

    "Before the dawn of our modern scientific (and problematic) way of thinking, there were different ways of explaining the world, ways that may seem contrived, arbitrary and even superstitious to us. Pythagoras, a Greek contemporary of Buddha and Lao-tzu, devised a philosophy, now almost unknown, which shaped our Western world view from the pre-Christian era up to the beginning of the modern age. The Pythagorean theory of harmonics would guide Kepler in the 17th century to correctly determine the order of the solar system and presage Newton in the discovery of gravity before becoming a discarded artifact of scientific and cultural history.

    Below is the writing of Evagrius Ponticus in which he uses Pythagorean number theory and describes an enneagram-like figure. This text is part of a letter written as an introduction to Chapters on Prayer, a guide to contemplative practice (from The Philokalia {A better Bible with less censorship}, translated from the Greek by G. Palmer, P. Sherrard, and K. Ware, pp. 55-57):
    “I have divided this discourse on prayer into one hundred and fifty-three texts. In this way I send you an evangelical feast, so that you may delight in a symbolical number that combines a triangular with a hexagonal figure. The triangle indicates spiritual knowledge of the Trinity, the hexagon indicates the ordered creation of the world in six days. The number one hundred is square, with the number fifty-three is triangular and spherical; for twenty-eight is triangular, and twenty-five is spherical, five times five being twenty-five. In this way, you have a square figure to express the fourfold nature of the virtues, and a spherical number, twenty-five, which by form represents the cyclic movement of time and so indicates true knowledge of this present age. For week follows week and month follows month, and time revolves from year to year, and season follows season, as we see from the movement of the sun and moon, of spring and summer, and so on. The triangle can signify knowledge of the Holy Trinity. Or you can regard the total sum, one hundred and fifty-three, as triangular and so signifying respectively the practice of the virtues, contemplation of the divine in nature, and theology or spiritual knowledge of God; faith, hope and love; or gold, silver and precious stones. So much then for this number.”


    Obviously all reference to prayer and god is an appeal to the authorities who put Socrates and many more to death for challenging their control of sheep. The Mayans are credited with the zero concept about two centuries before the Indian sub-continent Bharat people but the Chaldean base 60 math was accurate enough to make an Enneagram. And just because we think we know the history of a mathematical concept now - does not make it true, we are pushing back the origin of everything - every day!

    "A. Pythagorean Philosophy

    Pythagoras (582-500 BC) was a Greek philosopher who studied in Egypt and returned to teach in Greece on the island of Samos. His philosophy has been regarded by some historians as the cornerstone of Western thought and science. Pythagoras is credited with the dictum, “All is Number.” To the Pythagorean, the universe was organic and living, its elements obeying an inner order. The form of creation was a divine fabrication in accordance with the Reason of the Creator and as such was to some extent comprehensible by the human mind. This form or divine structure could be apprehended, although imperfectly, in the study of number, a study which followed logically from the belief in the progression of the divine reason to its imperfect reflection in humanity. Number represented the structure behind appearances, the archetypal pattern upon which all the complexities of perceived creation was determined.

    To understand the Pythagorean philosophy of number, it is important to know that Indian numerals such as we use today were unknown in 500 BC as were the early numeric systems which used letters. Numbers were represented by markers, such as pebbles (which the Romans called calculi) and were arranged in figures or shapes (we still use the word “figure” to refer to a number or calculation). Relationships and patterns among numbers were highly significant. The zero and decimal point were also unknown and therefore the calculation of a repeating decimal, such as the decimal representation of 1/7 (0.142857142857) upon which Gurdjieff’s enneagram symbol is based, could not have been derived.

    Evagrius explains in his introduction to Chapters on Prayer, “The way of prayer is twofold: it comprises practice of the virtues and contemplation. The same applies to numbers; literally they are quantities but they can also signify qualities.” Evagrius applies the “qualitative” meaning of number to give us three interpretations of the inner meaning of the 153 fishes of the Gospel of John."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-21-2016 at 12:16 PM.

  9. #9
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    Mme. H. P. Blavatsky, H. P. Lovecraft and Rudolf Steiner are all worth reading, I suppose. They got most of their insight from hermetics and ancient books like the books of the dead (modern name). But I tire of all the people following this path and taking pieces of truth - then ramming them with a fad or immoral concept - and making themselves more important than those who conceived these things long before they existed.

    To act and act wisely when the time for action comes, to wait and wait patiently when it is time for repose, put man in accord with the rising and falling tides (of affairs). So that with nature and law at his back, and truth and beneficence as his beacon light, he may accomplish wonders. Ignorance of this law results in periods of unreasoning enthusiasm on the one hand, and depression on the other. Man thus becomes the victim of the tides when he should be their Master.
    H. P. Blavatsky

    I will de-construct this saying to find the errors or truths.

    The first sentence has not said when one KNOWS how to act, It has not determined what 'repose' should entail. Does it entail meditation upon what one might ACT upon? Are "affairs" actually not worth acting upon at all? I see no LAW and no methods. Therefore the second sentence is an illusion or ego appealing to whatever MASTERY or power the "affairs" direct.

    The final sentence should ask a person to see depression as a moment for acting on a valuable insight or reflection upon the ego and how it works in the knowing that it soon will pass. In knowing the moments of great enthusiasm can also do the same deception; can an individual work on knowing how to make use of enthusiasms and do it with balance?

    The Pythagoreans at Bruttium (AKA Kroton but as Bruttium gives insight to their elite kin from Phoenician Samos as Pythagoras was) knew how to heal and became known as the Therapeutae who later taught Yeshua and Mary in Alexandria. They 'walked between worlds' with the best Druids and that is what lucid dreaming and portalling is borrowing.

    Here are a few more links to wade through if you wish.


    Walking Between the Worlds 2 DVD - Aristia

    aristia.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=1668

    Crystals Singing Bowls, Pythagorean Tuning Forks, Books, Video, DVD, CD, Music, Rainbow ... /DVD/Gregg Braden/Walking Between the Worlds 2 DVD ...


    Gregg Braden - Aristia, a new age spiritual on-line UK store ...

    www.aristia.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=260
    Crystals Singing Bowls, Pythagorean Tuning Forks, Books, Video, DVD, CD, Music, Rainbow Crystals, Tarot Cards, ... Walking Between the Worlds 2 DVD.


    Shifting Frequencies: Sounds for Vibratory Activation

    https://books.google.ca/books?isbn=1891824708

    Jonathan Goldman, ‎Shamael - 2010 - ‎Body, Mind & Spirit
    Walking Between the Worlds. Radio Bookstore. 1997. Brewer, Chris & Don Campbell. ... Homage to Pythagoras. Lindisfarn. 1980. Crowley, Brian and Esther.


    Johannes Reuchlin Kabbalah Pythagorean Philosophy and ...

    darkbooks.org/pp.php?v=914502484

    Cover of Moshe Idel's Book Johannes Reuchlin Kabbalah Pythagorean Philosophy and Modern Scholarship Book downloads: 51 ...


    Kuthumi lal Singh [Channeled words of Tobias and St ...

    gejirin.com/spirit/SPR_src/K/Kuthumi.htm

    ... and nonphysical, walking between the worlds of masculine and feminine. ..... < Teacher 5 > That lifetime as Pythagoras was followed then by the lifetime as B..

  10. #10
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    To Pythagoras money and secular power was at most a nuisance as he strove for a larger and more important Providence. In this regard he found open minds among many people rich and poor including the family of Jesus or Seneca. It is a battle for the soul and choices are made by most people every day, which reflect upon or become their Karma.

    Mr. Draper says Pythagoras founded an elite order to protect elites. I say he founded an elite order willing to make all who wished to become potentiated as full humans with divine potential to achieve their birthright rather than a nepotistic hierarchy which Plato had to conceive due to his ethical or social pressures. Pythagoras like Socrates later could have gone to nearby Sparta which was more hierarchical without the spiritual under-pinning, they both chose other options. In any event Mr. Draper is not part of the spiritual continuum and I am. If Pythagoras was welcomed by the Sybarites who his people actually fought with later, then maybe the argument could be made about elite or effete greedy people. Before Pythagoras arrived in Croton or Bruttium (in Latin) they had already fought the Sybarites who are part of the Milesian Trojan War people, Sybaris had already fought Bruttium twice including when they were on the side of the Etruscans in the Battle of Alalia (in my memory) as well as shortly thereafter at the Battle of Sybaris when they lost because the people of Croton/Bruttium protected average people fleeing Sybaritic elite dominion.

    http://www.ancientgreekbattles.net/P...eOfSybaris.htm

    I often find people writing about things they know little about and yet place current ideological definitions upon as if they know something. It gets especially tiresome when (Unlike Michael Grant in Rise of the Greeks who admits he cannot judge Pythagoras because he does not know what the system of esotericism is about.) we see sweeping generalizations which don't even have common or accepted meaning such as the word 'communism' being employed by Mr. Draper.

    The Gracchi are part of a continuum of socialism back to the Druids including Pythagoras. Mr. Draper has a hard time with reality and making a real government function when you begin a new system inside a culture of slave and master - and I agree with Kautsky. More importantly I see Draper putting terms and definitions on the work of people like Plutarch who lived in the era - and I dare say Plutarch knew better what was happening in Toto. I could post this under Cultural Marxism but I think that was a dead horse when stupid people pronounced it had some egis or origin with the Frankfurt School to begin with.

    "1. Some Socialist “Ancestors”

    Karl Kautsky, the leading theoretician of the Second International, began his book on Thomas More with the observation that the two great figures inaugurating the history of socialism are More and Münzer, and that both of them “follow the long line of Socialists, from Lycurgus and Pythagoras to Plato, the Gracchi, Cataline, Christ ...”

    This is a very impressive list of early “socialists,” and considering his position Kautsky should certainly have been able to recognize a socialist when he saw one. What is most fascinating about this list is the way it falls apart under examination into two quite different groups.

    Plutarch’s life of Lycurgus led the early socialists to adopt him as the founder of Spartan “communism” – this is why Kautsky lists him. But as described by Plutarch, the Spartan system was based on equal division of land under private ownership; it was in no way socialistic. The “collectivist” feeling one may get from a description of the Spartan regime comes from a different direction: the way of life of the Spartan ruling class itself, which was organized as a permanent disciplined garrison in a state of siege; and to this add the terroristic regime imposed over the helots (slaves). I do not see how a modern socialist can read of the Lycurgan regime without feeling that he is meeting not an ancestor of socialism but a forerunner of fascism. There is quite a difference! But how is it that it did not impress itself on the leading theoretician of social-democracy?

    Pythagoras founded an elite order which acted as the political arm of the landed aristocracy against the plebeian-democratic movement; he and his party were finally overthrown and expelled by a popular revolutionary rising. Kautsky seems to be on the wrong side of the barricades! But besides, inside the Pythagorean order a regime of total authoritarianism and regimentation prevailed. In spite of this, Kautsky chose to regard Pythagoras as a socialist ancestor because of the belief that the organized Pythagoreans practised communal consumption. Even if this were true (and Kautsky found out later it was not) {Again a matter of who defines what is or is not a managed society that has a goal to create spiritual disciplines and has a hierarchy of adepts who know how people must go through stages of growth before having any luxuries - see Erickson's hierarchy of needs.) this would have made the Pythagorean order exactly as communistic as any monastery. Chalk up a second ancestor of totalitarianism on Kautsky’s list."


    https://www.marxists.org/archive/dra...-ancestors.htm
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-29-2016 at 08:57 PM.

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