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Thread: Pythagoras

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Now far be it for me to suggest I know more than Pythagoras even though I have studied all the varied things he studied and we seem to have more science to support what he studied. I know one thing for certain - I know many things I do not fully grasp and I think even Bucky Fuller did not get them all. There are things people can do to amaze the novitiate I choose not to learn even though there was a time I thought I should, and was told I did not need to by wiser and gifted people who did them at the top of the mark or whatever you would say was the best of the best. I sometimes think I know so little compared to what I sense can be understood or achieved, and then I look around and find people teaching stuff I know is crap and other people eat it up as Gospel truth.

    Robert Anton Wilson told Timothy Leary about Fuller's math which supported what Leary was observing in his research and formulating. It engenders many so-called occult pathways for energy and wisdom (which is an energy or conscious connection thereof) or spirit. Science is getting closer to making these things understandable and useful - maybe even using to too cause the World Mind to do as we (They, more likely) want. Where you find Leary talking about four families of elements existing extra-terrestrially I say you should regard them in a similar way to the Yogic stages of enlightenment which Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs focused on the lower elements or layers of, stages, families and layers being similar.

    The minimum number of entry points for a mandala is four and usually it turns into eight which includes the secondary forces. The universal Harmonic mirrored in the Trees of Life have one extra force which is invisible or integrative as you saw in the Enneagram. It is called Kether in the Hebrew or southern Tree. I may be wrong but through spirit or consciousness we can attune to the Kether and more quickly understand all of our learning style's potential such as Howard Gardner of Harvard now has developed. It really does not matter if this is a brain function we can map, because it has already been used. It works! In yoga they say we have seven chakras inside and five outside. I am going to say the five outside ones coalesce into the Third Eye and makes the eight stopping points of the Mudras and Mutras in another language. It is like the clock with your eyes closed for fifteen seconds on each stage until the whole circle is finished and then you look straight up to the Third Eye between your eyes. But that would leave me wondering where the invisible integrative force is in the chakra map which does mirror the neurophysiological charts even though it was understood many millennia ago. Is there a spirit force upon which the body rests - within the DNA? There is more work to bring all these things into science and maybe through science all people will be able to learn what only the highest adepts can do - take their whole body energy into other realms.

    "The Law of Octaves was first suggested by Pythagoras in ancient Greece. Having observed that the eight notes of the conventional Occidental musical scale were governed by definite mathematical relationships, Pythagoras proceeded to create a whole cosmology based on 8s. In this octagonal model Pythagoras made numerous mistakes, because he was generalizing from insufficient data. However, his work was the first attempt in history to unify science, mathematics, art and mysticism into one comprehensible system and as such is still influential. Leary, Crowley and Buckminster Fuller have all described themselves as modern Pythagoreans.
    In China, roughly contemporary with Pythagoras, the Taoists built up a cosmology based on the interplay of yang (positive) and yin (negative), which produced the eight trigrams of the I Ching, out of which are generated the 64 hexagrams.

    In India, Buddha announced, after his illumination under the Bodhi tree, the Noble Eightfold Path. Patanjali subsequently reduced the science of yoga to eight "limbs" or, as we might say, eight "steps."

    The game of chess appeared, somewhere in the East, with a grid based on 8x8 (64) squares.

    Kepler discovered the laws of planetary motion serendipitously, while trying to make the planets fit into the Pythagorean octave.

    In the 1860s, English chemist John Newland showed that all the chemical elements fall into eight families. Since Pythagorean mysticism was unfashionable at that time, Newland was literally laughed at and rejected by the Royal Chemical Society. In the 1870s, with much more detail than Newland, the Russian chemist Mendeleyev proved once and for all that the elements do, indeed, fall into eight families. His Periodic Table of the Elements, an octave of hauntingly Pythagorean harmony, hangs in every high-school chemistry class today. (The Royal Society later apologized to Newland and gave him a Gold Medal.)

    Nikolai Tesla invented the alternating current generator which unleashed the modern technological revolution after a series of visions in which, among other things, Tesla "saw" that everything in the universe obeys a law of Octaves.

    Modern geneticists have found that the DNA-RNA "dialogue"—the molecular information system governing life and evolution—is transmitted by 64 (8x8) codons.

    R. Buckminster Fuller, in his Synergetic-Energetic Geometry, which he claims is the "co-ordinate system of the Universe," reduces all phenomena to geometric-energetic constructs based on the tetrahedron (4-sided), the octet truss (8-sided) and the coupler (8-faceted with 24 phases). Fuller argues specifically that the 8-face, 24-phase coupler underlies the 8-fold division of the chemical elements on the Mendeleyev Periodic Table.

    In 1973, unaware of Fuller's coupler—which I called to his attention later—Dr. Leary began to divide his 8 circuits into a 24-stage Periodic Table of Evolution (see diagram). Leary also began attempting to correlate this with the Periodic Table of Elements in chemistry.

    The eight families of elements are:
    8.Noble Gases
    The first four families, Leary argues, are terrestrial; that is, they are heavy and tend to fall to Earth. The second four families are extraterrestrial; that is, they tend to float off into space. Similarly, he says, the first four circuits of the nervous system are terrestrial; their function is to control survival and reproduction at the bottom of the 4,000-mile gravity well in which we presently live. The second four circuits, then, are extraterrestrial; they will come into full play only when we live normally in zero-gravity—in free space."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-19-2016 at 11:00 PM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    On a history site named Historia a person created a thread making a big deal out of Pythagoras and his father being coin and seal makers. He is well informed in the words of liars and the omissions which make many lies. A student/associate of mine from 2015 will tell us some things she learned from a top Greek Scholar at Harvard as we proceed - his name is Nagy and his homeland or birthplace is where the true origins of Greek culture can be found alongside the DNN. Here is an initial response of mine.

    Coinage and the Metal Workers:

    My understanding is - the Phocaean state on or in Ionia was as the name almost says - Phoenician. They created the first metal coinage and it had the all important BEE symbol. Many such symbols of Nature are very ancient totems. Many books are required to grasp such a thing as a totem, mandala and pre-writing. Pythagoras's mother was Phoenician, his father probably Milesian which is part of the DNN or Danaus who founded Greece. We are now learning Macedonia was more advanced and cultured than Greece. Metal working is a key secret I attribute to Pontish (Punt may be as well - names in different languages and places later) people and some people we now call Armenian. It began (per archaeology - which does not mean it was the first - we may find earlier) in 27,000 BCE in Dolni Vestonici. Ceramics and 700 kilns there - but the most important and possibly secret technology was a double kiln still used to make Viking swords in the early Renaissance.

    The BEE symbol is used by the Royal House of Mallia on Crete in 2200 BCE. MLL is a Milesian removed from a homeland - their more original homeland I can trace. See Michael Grant in The Rise of the Greeks recount their advances from the eastern shores of the Black Sea, and earlier having to flee in front of the flood which created the Black Sea in about 5300 BCE. Michael Grant was the President of the Royal Numismatic Society so his words on the coin of any realm bear listening to. He admits, he cannot judge the esoteric aspects of people like Pythagoras and that is my expertise. Peter Kingsley wrote a book on these forerunners to Classical philosophers which gets some of it correct. We will address it here as an addition to what my research assistant's favorite professor told him in the late 1960s. His name was Professor Heichelheim and he wrote about pre-existing culture and technology in the Altaic or Mongolian region. He was almost fired for going against the lies. He told my associate if he wanted to contribute to academic discovery he should quit school, by my friend went on to get his Honour's degree in Classical History and he was still arguing for it when I met him at the start of this millennium. Cistern technology and specific engineering of construction aligns the House of Mallia with the Shardana - in Egypt and the most intriguing place of all - Sardinia!!! See Jacquetta Hawkes' The Atlas of Archaeology where she identifies over 7000 "medieval castles" dating to as much as 1800 years before the myth of Jesus. She also said more would be found and was correct - over 9000 on that one island allowed an enfilade of cross bow and long bow fire to stop any invasion. See other nuraghi on Corsica where Napoleon was born and claimed his family was Royalty of this era - longer story - a book I have done on he and the Merovingian wife whose children were the Royalty of Europe and still are to some extent.

    Druidic University - Rennes-le-Chateau - Massallia

    The last known Dean of Studies was a Hyperborean names Abaris (Translates to Rabbi or teacher). Pythagoras was initiated as a Druid here. Tartessus (Tarshis, Tarses and other places for this large Iberian emporiae of corporate entity) gave Phocaeans the right to found a city there after a race across the Mediterranean. Off shore and 400 feet below the current Mediterranean you have a mine. When the Mediterranean was a collection of lakes and swamps this was developed - when I do not know. A mine on shore in Egypt is dated to 30,000 or more years ago. One in Zimbabwe 45,000 years ago, see the possible Cretan White Lady of Brandberg. I will try to edit this and add more on the Cretan ships and Hybrid grains dated to 5,000 years before any such technology in the lie known as the Cradle of Civilization or what Jung calls the UR stories.

    I forget who said "if you want to know what a Druid knows - ask a wild bee?" Maybe it was Bernard Mandeville in his BEE book. The BEES are important to be certain (Mormons and the House of Mallia and the first minted coins of the Phocaeans, and Napoleon's investiture robes as Holy ROMAN Emperor).I even throw a BEE in with "To Be or not to BEE." - occasionally. St. Columba said "Jesus is the new Druid!" He would know because he was the Arch-Druid selling out to Rome. But he did save 1200 Bairds.

    A great deal of change occurred from 5500 BCE to when the Black Sea was created and the Mississippi became the route used by the Phoenicians of Poverty Point in Arkansas and region. The Glacial melt and on-going isostatic re-adjustment causing a new divide in how the water flows out of Lake Superior. The prior Thulean and northern route is important to the metal industries (See Baidarka thread). So when you see science saying something began at this time it is more correct to say much was destroyed and we need to get the research moving on what is at the bottom of the Black Sea (Ballard found interesting sites).A great deal of change occurred from 5500 BCE to when the Black Sea was created and the Mississippi became the route used by the Phoenicians of Poverty Point in Arkansas and region. The Glacial melt and on-going isostatic re-adjustment causing a new divide in how the water flows out of Lake Superior. The prior Thulean and northern route is important to the metal industries (See Baidarka thread). So when you see science saying something began at this time it is more correct to say much was destroyed and we need to get the research moving on what is at the bottom of the Black Sea (Ballard found interesting sites).

    "The Sumerians may not have been the first people to invent the earliest form of writing, which allegedly appeared c. 3500 B.C.E. The Tartaria tablets, found in the western part of Romania and dating back to around 5300 B.C.E, according to radiocarbon dating, suggest that it was in Eastern Europe that writing first appeared. Some experts have dubbed the writing the Old European Script or the Danube Script."

    I have reported on the Franchthi cave explorations of Jacobsen for over a decade but I added an 'i' and spelled it wrong you can see some places where my articles are posted. Here is a little on Encyclopedia Britannica's website who used to have more and maybe in their archives you can find more. Clearly travelling across dangerous waters for more than 150 miles was a feat for the community fishing fleets in this era. It was almost twice as old as Pavlopetri - why do the scientists not talk about things they must know (like the Hellenic Marine Archaeology Center if not everyone else).

    "excavation by Jacobsen

    Aegean civilizations: Paleolithic (Old Stone Age)

    ...or the other islands. As elsewhere in Europe, the latest Lower Paleolithic industries evolved into Upper Paleolithic ones with diminutive stonework. The excavations of Thomas W. Jacobsen at the Franchthi Cave on the Bay of Argos showed that boats already sailed to the island of Melos north of Crete for obsidian, a volcanic glass invaluable for early tools, by about 13,00011,000 bc..."

    Crete was the longest running Keltoi or Phoenician administrative center. They had four at any point in time. The language of Crete then was Luwian and it is close to the Tocharian of Urumchi, and found perhaps by side scan sonar on the deep megalithic ruins off Cuba which was to be researched by Nat Geo who mysteriously dropped out of the project started by Paulina Zelintsky (sp?) and her company in Vancouver.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-04-2016 at 11:33 AM. Reason: typo

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    A possibly relevant response on the thread about Pythagoras.

    Dear W

    More important than taking current beliefs and imposing them upon wiser people is learning what those wiser people could do and how they did it. People got along on exchange of valued effort and assets, without the coins we soon also will do without. Bucky Fuller said the ancients did not build non-biodegradable structures because they understand Nature. He also said the first people who traveled by the stars learned geometry, basic trig and if on the ocean - carpentry and engineering. Since we know this was around a million years ago (maybe more) we have reason to stop the lies of history which only recently said there were no humans on Earth that long ago - and yet our history sells the same schlock.

    Socrates like Pythagoras, Plato and Aristotle can not be explained away despite the denial and lies told about them. They were alchemists but you will find just like the bounties Empire stoolies put on the heads of Druids (three Roman emperors and right up to recent Britannica editions - denial of their language, laws and culture).

    I have numerous sources for everything I say. I have proof that the Roman Empire called Christendom had purposefully hidden what these alchemists (AKA humanists) learned - just as they continue selling racist repressive ideologies from their BS Cradle of Civilization.

    Dear F

    I already gave you the source - Michael Grant in The Rise of the Greeks. He is the President of the Royal Numismatic Society (or was when he wrote the book). It is unimportant to what I am saying about the BEE families - symbols or logos still have great meaning. It would only have importance to someone who thinks dates for the first money not on clay supersede real Financial Transactions on clay tablets, which were preceded by other means. Adam Smith did not found the first school of economics and the Bilderbergs (by another name - same people though) met once a year off Troy (I think that was in Greeks too). The family who gave themselves the monopoly on usury in the Bible are the Rothschilds today. Go on and try to make sense about some fiction you find interesting. It has as much relevance to the present as an average Morgan Silver Dollar during the era when much of the US money supply was counterfeit - which recent acts by Helicopter Ben are likened with. C. H. Douglas mopped the floor with Keynes in a debate you and most people should read, on the way to a plan to DO good work as silly as "Make Love, not War".

    I have yet to find a person who can discuss the Physiocrats better than the nonsense of some Libertarian root which is actually a defection or Hegelian ploy. It is these same families telling us to let them do their thing without government intrusion (churches or corporate entities). If you learn only one thing in this world it would serve this society to know - "The Government that governs best, governs least." Is Physiocratic fluff from the likes of Dupont who sold armaments to both sides of every conflict - as was always the case for at least the 5,000 years James Joyce calls a "nightmare'.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-27-2016 at 12:10 AM.

  4. #14
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    Jan 2015
    Here is an excellent argument on women and Pythagoras from WorldHistoria. It is done by a person called Francisosan.

    Topic: Women and Pythagoreanism
    Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 02:17

    Pythagoras lived from about 574-c. 480 BC, moving from Samos in Asia Minor to Croton in Southern Italy in 534, and then in 510 to Metapontum, where he died. Pythagoreanism lasted until c. 360, and in different manifestations throughout antiquity and has been revived to some extent in modernity.

    The Pythagoreans pointed out that the stages in a woman's life were named after goddesses. When a woman was young, she was Kore, or maiden. Next she was Nymphe or bride. Then she became Meter or Mother, then some lists include Maia or Grandmother. Kore, Nymphe, [De]meter, and Gaia are all names of goddesses.

    Women and Men in Pythagoreanism were considered equal, although they have different virtues, man's virtue was bravery (something needed when you are a member of a small city-state, and everybody fights), woman's virtue was piety and that probably included carrying out rituals to the household deities (something we know very little about). [Some Pythagorean Female Virtues by Voula Lambropoulou]

    Whoops, checking citations, female virtue according to Lambropoulou is modesty and prudence, Lambropoulou is looking at Hellenistic pseudo-Pythagorean writings for this, although they may well represent authentic tradition. A speech attributed to Pythagoras in Iamblichus to the women of Croton, emphasizes piety, modesty and sacrifice (as in to the gods). Hermes (the naming god) is here said to have named the stages of women's life after goddesses due to female piety.

    What Iamblichus calls "the justice of women" is noteworthy. Iamblichus commends women for their practice of loaning articles of clothing and jewelry, without witnesses, depending on where a woman needs something for a particular occasion, and those items are returned without incident.

    Another big portion of ancient religion were the Mysteries, which we know little about. Probably the most important Mystery was the Mysteries of Demeter and Kore. Kore (the Maiden) is not so much the daughter of Demeter (the grain mother), as she is a different aspect of her. Together they were called the Two Goddesses (or the goddesses pair). Kore was kidnapped by Hades, when Demeter found out, she threatened to not allow anything to grow. Zeus said that Kore could return to the surface if she had not eaten anything in the Underworld. She had eaten some pomegranate seeds, and so Demeter could not get her back completely. Still, Zeus and Hades backed down, but not completely. Kore (now in the Underworld, Persephone) had to remain in the Underworld in the Winter and joined her above in the Summer, and thus we have the seasons. In many ways Persephone is a fierce-some goddess, but at the same time, for those initiated into the Mysteries, she offers eternal life. Eleusis is the best known center of the Mysteries, but Metapontum, showing the symbol of eternal life on their coins (the barley-ear) was probably another center, as was another Pythagorean center, Phlius in the Peloponnese.

    In Iamblichus' On the Pythagorean Life (sometimes mistakenly called Vita Pythagorae), there is a list of 200 or so men said to be Pythagoreans. At the end, however, there is a list of 13 women who were Pythagoreans, and for some of these women, there are stories concerning their actions and their words. In fact, we know of more women disciples of Pythagoreanism, than we know for any other philosophical sect. Plato, in "The Republic" talks about women also being guardians (the silver) and possibly even the Philosopher-King (or queen in this case). But he probably got that notion of equality from the Pythagoreans.

    Pythagoras' daughter was named Damo, and it was said that when he died, he entrusted his notes and papers to her for safekeeping. There is a gold ring in the British Museum with a griffin on one side, and the name Damo on the other (on a rotating bezel). I have no other evidence for it, but I like to think that the griffin is one of the "gold guarding" griffins found in Herodotus, and that the "Damo" the ring refers to is the daughter of Pythagoras. Alas, the face of the bezel is not a perfect circle, as would be significant for the Pythagoreans. There is also a floral pattern. Also "Damo" (with an omicron) could be another name, since the way that the Greeks abbreviated things was through truncation (cutting off the end).

    One last object to mention, in the Getty Villa there is displayed a loom weight with the stamp of a coin, a medium fabric (incuse) stater from Metapontum, probably contemporary with Pythagoras' life in Metapontum. Again, the image is an ear of barley, which Hippolytus says was the symbol of the Eleusinian Mysteries and probably symbolized rebirth. So letting my imagination work again, I imagine that this loom weight was owned and used by a woman in her daily work. She pushed the coin displaying the barley ear into her loom weight, as a symbol of her initiation into the Mysteries. Perhaps also, she was a Pythagorean, and unlike the ring, I don't think that that is too far of a stretch. Although what Pythagoreanism is, is probably more practice and will, and less abstract intellect than we imagine.

    Edited by franciscosan - 20 Jan 2016 at 23:29
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-27-2016 at 09:54 PM.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    It truly is good to see these academic outreaches to reality which seem to have started since I was writing my books, and all over the web in the early part of this millennia. I certainly had no difficulty finding why Pythagoreans and Therapeutae or Qumranites adopted an adept code which would not and did not place one gender above the other. Arguing about who said what and when is not my game, it really does not matter if Pythagoras wrote under the name Orpheus to make himself less of a target for repressive or murderous people, and I do not need the name of many women who I know had to be involved if only because he was a Druid.

    "There is little evidence about either Pythagoras or women in antiquity, let alone a combination of the two. The earliest reports about Pythagoras concern men accusing each other of not being true followers of the Master, hence raising the question of who or what actually counted as Pythagorean. As for women in the ancient Greek world, frankly the best evidence that there were any is that we know there were men.

    Complaints about lack of evidence, however, can become excuses for intellectual laziness. Feminist scholars of the 1970s made that point, showing that the dearth of knowledge about ancient women was not just the result of inadequate ancient evidence but also of blinkered modern research. Sarah Pomeroy herself was a pioneer: she mined ancient sources for information about women, and produced the landmark 1975 work Goddesses, Whores, Wives, and Slaves: Women in Classical Antiquity. The concerns of this book are similar: rather than an account of ancient Pythagorean philosophy (which is relegated to a brief last chapter authored by Vicki Lynn Harper), the book is conceived as a “social history of women who were Pythagoreans”.

    Pomeroy distinguishes between two groups: contemporaries of Pythagoras (circa mid sixth century to early fifth century BC) who feature in later accounts of his life; and female Pythagorean philosophers, who wrote letters and treatises in the late fourth to first century BC. The distinction seems straightforward, but is in fact hard to maintain – not least because women in the two groups often have the same names. We have a letter written by a certain Theano, for example, and this is also the name of Pythagoras’ wife. Perhaps Neo-Pythagorean women named themselves after famous earlier associates of the Master. Or perhaps the letters and treatises purport to be authored by those early women. This would not be strange: pseudo-epigraphic letters are common in ancient literature. They are not straightforward forgeries but rather attempts to give voice to glamorous figures from the past and dramatise their interactions. Pomeroy refuses to view Neo-Pythagorean texts in this manner, and complains that Iamblichus (Pythagoras’ main ancient biographer) “does not distinguish between an original and later bearer of the same name”. The problem is that if we insist on the distinction, we fail to appreciate an ancient literary game. A further problem is that those who do appreciate it often go on to argue that Neo-Pythagorean texts were actually all written by men. Pomeroy, for her part, points out that there is some evidence for literate women in the relevant period. It is easy to see how the argument might descend to the level of schoolyard retorts: “Actually written by women”; “Not”; “Yes”; “So not”; etc.

    It would help to reconsider the intellectual framework for the study of Pythagorean women. Social history is, in my view, rather unhelpful – at least in as much as it emphasises “real life” at the expense of the life of the mind. After all, whoever actually wrote the texts discussed in the book intended them to be seen as the work of women – and that is interesting in itself.

    More generally, women are prominent in Pythagoreanism. We can draw a general conclusion about social history: real women will have engaged with Pythagorean philosophy even though the details remain unknown. We can also ask what the emphasis on women tells us about Pythagorean philosophy: that question is only partly explored in the book. Answers would focus on the construction of Pythagoras’ religious authority, the purported organisation of his followers into a secret society, everyday norms (including diet, the regulation of sexual intercourse, and other activities that involved women), and the emphasis placed on remaining faithful to a mythical ancient Master.

    Pythagorean Women: Their History and Writings

    By Sarah B. Pomeroy
    Johns Hopkins University Press, 200pp, 32.00
    ISBN 9781421409566 and 9573 (e-book)
    Published 28 November 2013"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-28-2016 at 08:30 PM.

  6. #16
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    Jan 2015
    Here is a reply to Franciscosan above after I told him his focus was to demonstrate Classical History and Empire is worth study and of value. He did not like to be called a shill or stoolie I guess.

    Dear F

    I am not so concerned with being original. Gave that up very early in life after reading all the ancient philosophers. Yes, I do like to create and bring back that which was, in ways to expose what Empires have sought to destroy. I believe one definition of Hellenizing is exactly what I am referring to, and you illustrated exists in academia with no proof of any actual words from most of these people who were well aware of the designs of Empire and the impending demise of morals and Brotherhood. So they built secret societies for disciplined people who would not be Sophists or sell the soul of their women for power.

    When you say you doubt the authenticity of the scholarship you are recognizing the effects of propaganda even if it is hard for you to know that which is behind the Hegelian Dialectic or top-down hierarchy designed in Plato's Republic. It has been well preserved and constantly added to with whole doctoral degrees on just it -EMPIRE! There was only two courses available at schools of the bulk of mankind in the Old World - Greek was only available at one or two universities - all the rest just Latin!

    Total control - Empire!

    The New Testament of Rome - Bible (Vulgate and Septuagint) was written in those poor excuses for a language, which are not good for rhyme or poetry. They and their lies are and were controlled. The Gospels were written to enthrall the masses and blame people for the death of a myth - a major league control meme.

    The truth is in what Pythagoras taught and Socrates did. It had to be perverted or Empire would be defeated. (See The Art of War by Lao Tzu).

    Celt is a Roman epithet - it is a hammered tool and this is what you get from Rome and history. Epithets and derogatory accounts which make their Empire seem more than it ever was. When they took over Sicily they would not allow the people to name their kids with anything legal but a Roman name - major league MEME! The Greeks said Rome never created anything - just stole it and were barbarians. But they became or were eventually the same.

    If your author was writing about the travels of the possibly greatest chronicler of the Keltoi or Ogygia (ancient ones) he should know celt is a name given to ridicule - just like Picti (red shanks), or Ir-land you still see on maps today (Ir is translated as 'lost') but the Emerald Isles were still the fountain of knowledge and you can even see this is the case in the words of a paradigm flunkie named Cahill whose books are Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat.

    One of his best selling books is How the Irish Saved Civilization (documents only from the era Rome took over) the other is Gifts of The Jews. I wonder what you think 'devoted ones' means in terms of people in Temple. I presume you have read some of true history - in that region - it is written by Rabbis (like Abaris). They prove Rome wrote their lies to blame the Jews for what Rome did - kill our Savior! Of course they prove a lot more about that myth built around one of their own.

    Edited by Robert Baird - Today at 03:47

    "A fool thinks he is a wise man, a wise man knows he is a fool."

    “No one is free who has not obtained the empire of himself. No man is free who cannot command himself.”
    -- Pythagoras

    The link following includes an embedded book by Manly Hall which is well worth reading. Much of the rest of the Occult politics segment is covered here already but it is pretty much everywhere on the web, already. Yes, globalists have said what they want - and why. When will idiots tell us their agenda and plan?
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-08-2016 at 11:20 AM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    There are people who will never read or learn. I have given all manner of proof and they still prattle on about things they want to BELIEVE or listen to fools ranting about things they have not studied. Here is a link to a preacher saying you will find a truer Christianity the further back in time you go. He does not know how far back that is or how right he is; but you will see Pythagoras is a key part in what he does know. He quotes great Church scholars like Eusebius and other deviates but he is at least telling some truth. It is reported by me in a hundred posts here (at least) that this early Christendom dates back to the builders of the Great Pyramid of Iesa (translates as Jesus). It is Brotherhood. Yes, Iesa stands for the Brotherhood of Man built upon the spirit (Cheops is "spirit" in an Irish language spelt backwards) alongside the feminine co-equal Sphinx. Pythagoras went to this pyramid his teacher Abaris helped him understand and Plato's kin later were priests at (Critias told a myth of Atlantis to cover over the truth).


    Hebrew For "The House Of Truth"

    Craig M. Lyons Ms.D., D.D., M.Div.

    [email protected]


    Answer for yourself: Could it just be that the original Christians were a part of a divergent Gnostic tradition that prospered across the whole of the Mediterranean and did so possessing a common mystical philosophy and a common aversion to an imposed literalist religion? That is exactly what we find thanks to the benefits of archeology over the last centuries which has brought many early Christian documents to light as well as other archeological finds that reveal this fact.

    The implications of the answer to the above question are not only striking but potentially lethal to the much accepted view and tradition of Roman Christianity and it "literalistic" approach to the Jewish Scriptures today.

    Many scholars will tell us that in reality there were no "original" Christianity because history reveals to us upon study the emergence of a continuous movement of Gnostic believers from different cultures which all producing their own unique variations of a common religious beliefs system. Amongst some Jewish Gnostics a school developed which synthesized Jewish and Pagan mythology to produce distinctive new myths. We saw this clearly with Philo in previous articles as we traced the synthesis of Greek philosophy, Pagan Mysteries, and Judaism into a unique religious synthesis which is better known as Jewish Gnosticism. But underneath this "Jewish flavor" is a common mystical understanding of God handed down since the beginning of time. We find the earliest, simplest, and most profound expressions of God in Egypt where almost all of our later Judeo-Christians religious "doctrines" have come.

    On the subject of the origin of Christianity, Saint Augustine wrote:- “For the thing itself which is now called the Christian religion, was known to the ancients, and was not wanting at any time from the beginning of the human race until the time that Christ came in the flesh, from whence the true religion, that had existed previously, began to be called Christian, and this in our day is the Christian religion, not as having been wanting in former times, but as having in later times received the name”.

    Answer for yourself: Did you see that this prominent Church Father stated what I am saying; namely that what evolved into the Christian religion and doctrines could be found at the beginning of the human race?

    Born in AD 354, Saint Augustine was one of the early Christian fathers. This opinion of Saint Augustine was also the opinion of Eusebius, the father of ecclesiastical history, born in Palestine in AD 265, who said:- “Those ancient Therapeutae were Christians and their writings were our gospels and epistles”, and “the religion published by Jesus Christ to all nations is neither new nor strange”, expressing the view that what is called Christianity was borrowed from the Therapeutae, or Essenes, a view held also by other outstanding men of the early Christian Church.

    These Therapeutae were known under the name of the Essenes, or healers, and they had their origin in Egypt. It was there that the Essenes principally dwelt for over two hundred years before the time of Jesus. Their centre was Alexandria, site of the world’s theological university, where the wisdom of the time was focused in those days, and where there was the greatest library in the ancient world.

    Answer for yourself: So what is the problem? It is imperative that these earliest "dogmas" and "doctrines" concerning the Creator be understood correctly; namely, the same was that those who gave them to us understood and taught them. The sad fact is that we don't have today the same meanings as not only held by the Ancients but the early Christians as well concerning this earliest understanding of God and His "Christ." We must recover these truths.

    In retrospect we can see that this emergence of Jewish Gnostic "believers" was the beginnings of what we now call "Christianity".

    Today scholars are somewhat divided in opinions; but many hold that these proto-Christians were a group of believers called the Therapeutae and Essenes, who are described by the Jewish Gnostic Philo, himself probably an initiate of the Therapeutae, as two parts of a single school of philosophy.

    Philo paints the Therapeutae and Essenes as the Jewish equivalent of the active and contemplative division found in the many earlier Pagan schools. The community founded by Pythagoras recognized two order of followers: those who came to hear the teachings and those who committed themselves and their world good to the community.

    Answer for yourself: Were the earliest Christian believers related to the Therapeutae-Essenes? {The closest word in the era of Yeshua was Essanoi.}

    Acts 2:42-45 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. (KJV)

    Acts 4:32 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (KJV)

    These examples just might be circumstantial so lets keep studying to make sure.

    The world these Gnostic Therapeutae and Essenes populated was governed by cosmopolitan Pagan civilizations which had been trading, conquering and synthesizing with each other for centuries. It would only be a few decades later that the empire of Alexander the Great will transform this ancient world into basically one culture and one religion. Along with this Greek became the international language which only facilitates such a "synthesis" of Greek ideas into existing world cultures and religions. We call this Hellenism! Pagan, Jewish and Christian Gnostics all wrote in Greek, thus making their religious ideas easily available to each other and thus enabling an burst of creative assimilation of religious ideas. It was an ideal environment for Gnosticism to flourish.

    By the first century C.E. , just one hundred or so years before the emergence of the Jesus Myth in the New Testament, huge numbers of Jews in Judaea and throughout the Mediterranean were fully integrated into sophisticated Pagan society, none more so than Jewish Gnostics, such as the Therapeutae. Philo writes of being part of an international {Pan-tribal Druidism} fellowship of Gnostic philosophers who, "although comparatively few in number, keep alive the covered spark of wisdom secretly throughout the cities of the world".

    Jewish Gnostics claimed to be inheritors of secret mystical teachings passed down from their own great Gnostic master, Moses. (Philo, De Sept, 3.4, quoted in W. Kingsland, The Gnosis, 1937, p.106). {Kabbalistic Jewish Gnostics are only one sect of Gnostics.}

    Answer for yourself: Is this piece of information a reinforcement that the earliest concepts and understanding of God originated with Egypt? Yes it is! But then again we must interpret this ancient Egyptian literature correctly if we ever hope to understand God as they did. This I promise you will take time but when you see it you will be moved in your Spirit beyond belief; I was. It is so simple, so beautiful, and so profound; thereby helping cut out erroneous theology that will later develop over the millennia due to misinterpretation or pure invention!"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-29-2016 at 04:59 AM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Continuing this biased Gnostic account from Kabbalah which is derivative of the earlier discipline we should pay homage to.

    "These teachings of Jewish Gnosticism (coming from Egypt) were so similar to those of Pagan Gnosticism that many Jews claimed that the great Pagan philosophers had originally received their wisdom from Moses. This condition continued into the Middle Ages. The Zohar, believed written by Moses de Leon in 1305 C.E., claimed to draw on the secret teachings of Simeon Ben Yohai, a rabbi of Galilee in the second century C.E., which were in turn said to have been drawn from the hidden wisdom of Moses. The medieval flowering of Kabbalah in the south of France in the 13th century was inspired by Jewish Gnostic tradition that had somehow survived from the first centuries (G. Scholem, Origins Of The Kabbalah, 1987). This belief encouraged Jews to enthusiastically embrace the philosophy and mythology of the Pagan Gnostics to augment their own tradition, producing a Miarge number of spiritual treatises which synthesized Pagan and Jewish motifs.

    The spirituality of the Therapeutae and Essenes is an example of this mixture of Jewish and Pagan Gnosticism. As well as being followers of their own Jewish master Moses, they were also followers of the great Pagan philosopher Pythagoras {The Druid}, whose disciples had set up communities throughout the Mediterranean world. The Jewish historian Josephus informs us that the Essenes are comparable to the Pythagoreans (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 15.371). In creating the Gnostic Jesus Myth these Therapeutae-Essenes drew upon inter-testamental literature which had already been synthesized from Pagan and Jewish mythological motifs. These inter-testamental texts not only echo the Pagan Mysteries but also prefigures Christianity and by so doing forms a bridge between the two. For example motifs that prefigure Christianity are found in the Sibylline Oracles {Druidic priestesses} which look forward to the coming of "the Christ" and the Books of Enoch which anticipate the arrival of the "Son of Man" - a title that will be used to define Jesus in the New Testament.

    Philo, himself known as "the Pythagorean" (Josephus, The Jewish War, 2.8.10). Philo, himself a Pythagorean, describes the Therapeutae as practising "the contemplative life", which was a way of describing Pythagoreans (Clement of Alexandria, Clement of Alexandria, 1919, 1.15.72 and 2.19.100). Philo tells us their wisdom stems from Greece and that "this kind exists in many places in the inhabited world". The "contemplative life" is a term used to describe the life lived in the Pythagorean communities.

    Following the practice of the Cynic school of Pagan Gnosticism, these Jewish Gnostics called their spiritual tradition simply "the Way" - a term also adopted by the original Christians. "The Way" was a phrase used by Essenes, Cynics, and Christians to describe their faith (A. Ellegard, Jesus: One Hundred Years Before Christ, 1999, p. 167).

    Acts 9:2 2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. (KJV)

    Answer for yourself: Are these Therapeuate-Essene-Pythagorean-Jews the earliest Christians we read about in the Book of Acts? It sure would appear so!

    Partly due to Philo's writings, the fourth-century Christian Literalist historian Eusebius saw so many similarities between the Way of the Therapeutae and the Christian Way that he claimed the Therapeutae were amongst the first followers of Christ.

    Answer for yourself: But when did Philo write of these Therapeutae? Before or after Jesus of the New Testament times?

    Philo's description of the Therapeutae was written before the time that Jesus is supposed to have been teaching, so Philo is clearly NOT writing about disciples of an historical Jesus or a historical Messiah, as Eusebius believed. Ironically, Eusebius was probably right nevertheless, albeit in an entirely different way from how he intended. The Essenes and Therapeutae did not follow Jesus. They created him!

    The idea of some sect "making up" the Jesus myth may seem strange today, but this is because we no longer think of myths in the same way as our ancestors did. To us myths are irrelevant fantasies, but the ancients regarded "myths" as profound allegories encoding mystical teachings. Mythical motifs represented philosophical principles. They were an archetypal vocabulary with which to think. Creating new myths was a way of exploring new ideas.

    Reworking old myths and syncretizing them to create new ones was a major preoccupation of the Gnostics. Philo tells us that the Therapeutae were devoted to "philosophizing and interpreting their ancestral scriptures allegorically, for they think that the words of the literal meaning are symbols of a hidden nature which is made plain only by the undermeaning" (Philo, De Sept, 3.4, quoted in W. Kingsland, The Gnosis, 1937, p. 28). Imaginative mythologizing is also what the later Christian Gnostics specialized in. One of their critics condemns them for using "allegorical interpretation" to freely "recompose" Jewish scriptures and "Greek epic mythology" (Epiphanius, Pan., 26.1.4), which are precisely the two sources used to create the myths of Jesus and the Goddess."

    In the millennia before his focus the Gnosis was maintained throughout the Mediterranean in Hermetic teachings by intellectuals who studied Thoth/Hermes or Imhotep/Asklepios (Same system - one Greek - one Roman).
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-29-2016 at 04:24 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    The next report seems to have not integrated the work of Gimbutas and is working mostly off Classical historical records. But it mentions the Essenes and is talking about the region Abaris likely came from - so it has some information worth integrating. I can see why the Amazons had issues with their menfolk, and a general class structure had become all too prevalent in the Classical era here as elsewhere.

    "Among the Agathyrsi, Herodotus informs us, community of women prevailed, while in general their manners and customs resembled those of the Thracians. Herodotus received this information on which doubt has been cast, but without justification from merchants in the colonies on the north-western shores of the Euxine, who carried on an active trade with the inhabitants of the interior, and were well acquainted with this wealthy tribe. The Agathyrsi were Scythians, who in the course of the migration of this people towards the west had settled in Transylvania and had conquered the indigenous Dacian population. They had abundance of gold ornaments, for they inhabited a rich gold-bearing region, and indeed archaeological finds have proved that from the latest period of the Bronze Age onwards Dacia was rich in articles of gold. As the Agathyrsi had for a long time lived side by side with the numerically much stronger Dacians, they had naturally adopted Thracian customs.

    In social life there is plenty of evidence for a division of the Thracian population into nobles and commons. In the Thracian language the nobles were called Zibythides; among the Dacians, Tarabostesei (cap-wearers), because they alone had the right to wear the felt cap ("pileus"); the common people, generally, went bare-headed. Herodotus tells us that the Thracians held agriculture to be an unworthy occupation; the life of the warrior or the robber, on the other hand, was the most honourable. A life of leisure was of course the prerogative of the rich; the mass of the people had to work hard, as is clearly shown by the flourishing condition of agriculture in various parts of ancient Thrace.

    As a reaction against the prevalent vices of unchastity and drunkenness there arose sects or ascetic orders who strove after a strict and virtuous way of life. Among the Dacians there were the so-called Polistai, whom Josephus compares with the Jewish sect of the Essenes. South of the Danube among the Moesi there was the sect of the Ktistai, whose members abstained from all flesh, and confined themselves to a diet of milk, cheese and honey; they also practiced community of goods and avoided intercourse with women. They were known as God-fearing ("theocratistes") and the Kapnobatai (the latter term being perhaps a Thracian word corrupted by the Greeks).

    There was of course a servile population in Thrace as elsewhere, but we have no detailed information about it. The Greeks drew many slaves from that country; according to Herodotus the Thracians even sold their children into slavery, and kidnapping and slave-trading were certainly quite common. At Athens, Thracian women often appear as slaves and nurses; in the New Comedy the names Geta and Davus are the most usual names for slaves. In Italy, Thracian slaves appear as early as the period of the Republic; and from them were drawn some of the gladiators.

    The Thracian people were divided into many tribes. Herodotus mentions nineteen, Strabo gives twenty-two south of the Danube, Stephanus of Byzantium enumerates forty-three, and obviously the number must have varied in the course of centuries. The larger tribes had several subdivisions; in the incessant feuds many of the smaller ones were wiped out or absorbed by the larger."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-08-2016 at 09:24 AM.

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