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Thread: Tales of Ossian

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Tales of Ossian

    Fragments of writing or verbal traditions (Qabala) are often termed faked except if there is a Church selling them as a religion with alien theories and all manner of fear-mongering included. But when the subject matter is Irish it will really get dumped on. Hume was considered the pre-eminent historian of his century and he chose the occasion of the writing of Edward Gibbon's masterwork on Rome to write to him and congratulate him on leaving out any reference to Ossian's tales or lore. He did not stop there - he went on to ravage every Irish "lout" and the drunken nature of people hiding in bogs for centuries of war and genocidal mania and attention. Most people do not know what Hume probably knew and Gibbon surely knew. Gibbon actually was friends with a person who is thought to be responsible for bringing the Potato Famine to Ir-land and other parts of the destruction added to by William of Orange when he gave Scotsmen Irish land and made a financial bargain to continue what Rome and King James had agreed upon, in furthering what I am sure was a genocidal plot. I cannot say either of these great historians knew much about the Brutti who fled The Trojan War and founded both Britain (the name makes it clear) and came back to Etruria when they thought their kinfolk were being abused by elites. The land use laws and communal or communistic (Not Bolshevism or Stalinism) Brotherhood of these people (Including SPQR) is what we need to manage our future today.

    These few words address the continued denial of what happened and why it continues - in the matter of land and Sovereign Rights.

    Sir John Davies was one of the paladins of the Stuart king of England who crafted a new Bible. The Stuart/Jacobin intrigues of war and aristocracies are just one aspect of an interesting alternative history that might make sense of why prejudices were fostered rather than collective pride and joy in learning and growing as a human family. Sir John was the Attorney General of Ireland under James I and he observed:

    "There is no nation of people under the sun that doth love equal and indifferent justice better that the Irish, or will rest better satisfied with the execution thereof, although it be against themselves, as they may have protection and benefit of the law when upon just cause they do deserve it." His Master of the Court of Wards, Sir William Parsons said: "We must change their (Irish) course of government, apparel, manner of holding land, language and habit of life. It will otherwise be impossible to set up in them obedience to the laws and to the English empire."

    Sacred texts has some information and more which might interest a person if they desire to learn the possible past of a people whose culture and laws once spanned the whole world and kept alive knowledge as a book recently done documents. That book is written by Cahill who is not addressing the pre-Christian era at all, and he also includes little or none of the Ossianic tales. His book is titled How the Irish Saved Civilization. When you read Sacred text's introduction you will see them attributed to being "Scotch" and indeed the Scotti were in both Ir-land and Scotland ((Hibernia and other names) when the tales took place. But I really wonder how they call the Scottish people after a drink of Whiskey that comes from their homeland.

    Given that we know people will accept lies as history and that the actual books of history were burned or otherwise destroyed by the like of St. Patrick and the program to destroy this ancient culture continued until very recent times - I should think the day might come when some allowances might be made as we try to gather what really happened. Unfortunately families of important people who often were not native and came from conquering lands are now given credibility.

    "Ossian purports to be a translation of an epic cycle of Scottish poems from the early dark ages. Ossian, a blind bard, sings of the life and battles of Fingal, a Scotch warrior. Ossian caused a sensation when it was published on the cusp of the era of revolutions, and had a massive cultural impact during the 18th and 19th centuries. Napolean carried a copy into battle; Goethe translated parts of it; the city of Selma, Alabama was named after the home of Fingal, and one of Ingres' most romantic and moody paintings, the Dream of Ossian (above) was based on it.

    James Macpherson claimed that Ossian was based on an ancient Gaelic manuscript. There was just one problem. The existence of this manuscript was never established. In fact, unlike Ireland and Wales, there are no dark-age manuscripts of epic poems, tales, and chronicles and so on from Scotland. It isn't that such ancient Scottish poetry and lore didn't exist, it was just purely oral in nature. Not much of it was committed to writing until it was on the verge of extinction. There are Scottish manuscripts and books in existence today which date as far back as the 12th century (some with scraps of poetry in them), but they are principally on subjects such as religion, genealogy, and land grants.

    For this and several other reasons which are dealt with in the Preliminary Discourse et seq., authenticity of the work was widely contested, particularly by Samuel Johnson. A huge (and probably excessive) backlash ensued, and conventional wisdom today brands Ossian as one of the great forgeries of history.

    In fairness, themes, characters and passages of Ossian are based on established Celtic and Scottish folklore. Much of the fourth volume of J.F. Campbell's massive Popular Tales of the West Highlands is devoted to tracking down Ossianic fragments in circulation prior to Macpherson, or elicited from illiterate Highland peasants who had never heard of Ossian.

    Macpherson is today considered the author of this work. The language of composition was probably English: As Campbell determined, Macpherson wasn't even particularly fluent in Gaelic.

    The work has literary merits, and historical importance. The project resembles other Romantic era attempts at national epic-building such as the Finnish Kalevala; however the Kalevala is acknowledged to be based on years of ethnographic fieldwork by Elias Lönnrot. Lönnrot is now believed to have composed a few bridge portions of the Kalevala; but he didn't pull a great deal of the work out of thin air, as did Macpherson.

    Production notes: This version is based on material produced by Donal O'Danachair. Be sure to visit his website ( recommended! I've scanned and proofed about 200 pages of prefatory material, added the original illustrations and page numbers; corrected some typos and added a few missing footnotes to the exclassics etext.

    J. Hare"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-11-2016 at 10:31 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Jonathan Swift was a Hibernian gifted in Green Languages but he was also an able craftsman of legal or other tongue and paper products; and a Member of Parliament. He supported the Irish as the English were intent on using the issuance of coin to prevent Irish merchants and traders from competing. Here is a little of the matter for your consideration.

    “‘To give, therefore, a short view of our case, it is thus; We can have English coin but by stealth, there being an act of parliament forbidding the exportation of English coin; if, therefore, we should send our gold or silver to England to be coined, we cannot have it back again, or if we could, we cannot keep it for the reason above; we cannot for the same reason have foreign silver; let us add to these, that by the act of navigation and other acts, we cannot make our markets of buying where we make our markets for selling; though we might have the commodities we want much cheaper there, than we can have them in England, viz. all East India and Turkey goods, with many others: nor is it to be expected that any nation will trade with us with their silver only, when we will not exchange commodities with them. Except, therefore, England designs entirely to ruin Ireland, a kingdom by which it is demonstrable that she gains yearly thirteen or fourteen hundred thousand pounds, she ought to think of giving us some relief.’ (“History of St. Patrick’s,” pp. xciii-xciv). [T.S.]]” (7)

    I am reminded again of the first Inspirational Comment that I began this book with – “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” – Mayer Amschel Rothschild.

    From Mr. Hare and the sacred-texts link we have some truth even if he does not know Hirtius was the author or propagandist for Julius Caesar and the varied kings who followed him had not stopped doing what the Greeks did to all accounts (Books and artifacts) of the cultures that went before them.


    INQUIRIES into the antiquities of nations afford more pleasure than any real advantage to mankind. The ingenious may form systems of history on probabilities and a few facts; but, at a great distance of time, their accounts must be vague and uncertain. The infancy of states and kingdoms is as destitute of great events, as of the means of transmitting them to posterity. The arts of polished life, by which alone facts can be preserved with certainty, are the production of a well. formed community. It is then historians begin to write, and public transactions to be worthy remembrance. The actions of former times are left in obscurity, or magnified by uncertain traditions. Hence it is that we find so much of the marvellous in the origin of every nation; posterity being always ready to believe any thing, however fabulous, that reflects honor on their ancestors.

    The Greeks and Romans were remarkable for this weakness. They swallowed the most absurd fables concerning the high antiquities of their respective nations. Good historians, however, rose very early

    p. 45

    amongst them, and transmitted, with lustre, their great actions to posterity. It is to them that they owe that unrivalled fame they now enjoy; while the great actions of other nations are involved in fables, or lost in obscurity. The Celtic nations afford a striking instance of this kind. They, though once the masters of Europe, from the mouth of the river Oby, in Russia, to Cape Finisterre, the western point of Gallicia, in Spain, are very little mentioned in history. They trusted their fame to tradition and the songs of their bards, which, by the vicissitude of human affairs, are long since lost. Their ancient language is the only monument that remains of them; and the traces of it being found in places so widely distant from each other, serves only to show the extent of their ancient power, but throws very little light on their history.

    Of all the Celtic nations, that which possessed old Gaul is the most renowned: not perhaps on account of worth superior to the rest, but for their wars with a people who had historians to transmit the fame of their enemies, as well as their own, to posterity. Britain was first peopled by them, according to the testimony of the best authors; its situation in respect to Gaul makes the opinion probable; but what puts it beyond all dispute, is, that the same customs and language prevailed among the inhabitants of both in the days of Julius Cæsar."

    There are many family legends in Ir-land and many are as far from truth as the Bible is, so read them as what they are, There is merit in myth.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-22-2016 at 02:31 PM. Reason: add content

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    If Robert Graves was to say the tales of Ossian had no merit I would bow to his expertise. He lays out his method of piercing myths to find a history far superior to religion or Empire.

    Robert Graves tells us about common myths of orchards with Golden Apples reminiscent of the King Arthur's legends and they are found far afield (even in Nova Scotia I say). The method he employs is sound and has more veracity than quoting those who wrote stories to make their masters seem ascendant and resplendent in glory.

    "If some myths are baffling at first sight, this is often because the mythographer has accidentally or deliberately misinterpreted a sacred picture or dramatic rite. I have called such a process ’iconotropy’, and examples of it can be found in every body of sacred literature which sets the seal upon a radical reform of ancient beliefs.

    Greek myth teems with iconotropic instances. Hephaestus’s three-legged workshop tables, for example, which ran by themselves to assemblies of the gods, and back again (Iliad), are not, as Dr Charles Seltman suggests in his Twelve Olympian Gods, anticipations of automobiles; but golden Sun-disks with three legs a piece (like the emblem of the Isle of Man), apparently representing the number of three-season years for which a ‘son of Hephaestus’ was permitted to reign in the island of Lemnos. Again, the so-called ‘Judgement of Paris’, where a hero is called upon to decide between the rival charms of three goddesses and awards his apple to the fairest, records an ancient ritual situation, outgrown by the time of Homer and Hesiod. These three goddesses are one goddess in triad: Athene the maiden, Aphrodite the nymph, and Hera the crone—and Aphrodite is presenting Paris with the apple, rather than receiving it from him.

    This apple, symbolizing her love bought at the price of his life, will be Paris’s passport to the Elysian Fields, the apple orchards of the west, to which only the souls of heroes are admitted. A similar gift is frequently made in Irish and Welsh myth; as well as by the Three Hesperides, to Heracles; and by Eve, ‘the Mother of All Living’, to Adam. Thus Nemesis, goddess of the sacred grove who, in late myth, became a symbol of divine vengeance on proud kings, carries an apple-hung branch, her gift to heroes. All Neolithic and Bronze Age paradises were orchard-islands; paradise itself means ‘orchard’. A true science of myth should begin with a study of archaeology, history, and comparative religion, not in the psychotherapist’s consulting-room. Though the Jungians hold that ‘myths are original revelations of the pre-conscious psyche, involuntary statements about unconscious psychic happenings’, Greek mythology was no more mysterious in content than are modern election cartoon, and for the most part formulated in territories which maintained close political relations with Minoan Crete—a country sophisticated enough to have written archives, four-storey buildings with hygienic plumbing, doors with modern looking locks, registered trademarks, chess, a central system of weights and measures, and a calendar based on patient astronomic observation."

    Crete is one of the four administrative centers of the Phoenician Kelts going back over twelve millennia with various comings and goings of elite families who also founded far off enterprises. It is likely they had volcanoes and such natural disasters which lead to them having to move for periods of time.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Drilling into articles in this site might give the person who seeks for more facts about Ossian and his tales, absolutely nothing. It will give you insight to why any truth told by Ossian had to be dealt with - harshly.

    Just because a person is biased does not mean what they are telling you is false. Often you will find those who have been hurt or know how badly they have been lied to will provide the best research.

    On the other side of the street you can see the chicken and wonder how it got there.

    Balance is a good thing. Harmony is a great thing. When you find a place selling courses on balance - run!

    Unfortunately there are so many self-help approaches for every issue in your life. AA is well known as a feeder group for Christian cults and it brings sheep together for the shearing processes. You can find them in the eating disorder genre and most of all wherever people want more money through fellowship and giving. In the course of your life you might enjoy these fellowship endeavours and get what you need from them, don't get me wrong. I enjoy giving as much as anyone.

    "Here is a question for you. What does Christianity have to do with the popular and constantly growing industry of Self Improvement? Don’t be afraid, it’s not some religious fanatic post that is supposed to make you repent your sins and go into exile. We are all intelligent and smart people who are looking for ways to grow in life, to develop in a balanced and harmonious way.

    So what does the Bible have to do with self improvement (and balance for that matter)? The Bible really is the ultimate guide towards personal growth. I confess, I am very partial towards this topic because I am a Christian (even though I haven’t always been one.) But even if you do not share my beliefs open up your brilliant mind to the new concepts that I am about to reveal here. If you love life balance articles and tips that I give on this blog please stick around to see what is really inside my mind and soul. Because faith is really the base of life balance in my life.

    Personal development field and the Christian religion seem to be living in two completely different worlds. But in reality they have much more in common than any of us could ever imagine. Here is the ultimate 9-step self improvement guide that will help you achieve the peace, balance and happiness that you are looking for.

    1. Find your mentors

    You need to have good teachers to grow in life. Learning from these teachers expands your knowledge, opens up your mind to new possibilities and lets you avoid painful mistakes (at least some of them.)"

    The Gnostics are traceable to at least the builders of the Great Pyramid which the Septuagint (Greek Bible) intimates when it says the family of Jesus and Joseph were "arch-tectons" or architects. This was the hardest thing to confirm from the writings of Conor MacDari along with the fruit of 'direct cognition' which comes from this harmony of yin and yang evident on the Giza Plateau and elsewhere around the world. This video gets it right about 'direct experience'.

    And the hits just keep on coming! History is a web of lies where people call other people ignorant or unable to write or travel, or even think and be conscious (John Locke and the Pope during the heathen invasion of paradise). But the people before the second millennium BCE in this report traveled and traded in the whole area from Egypt to Denmark.

    "After taking a new look at a pair of ancient cobalt beads, archaeologists now believe these Bronze Age artifacts may have been manufactured in the same workshop as the blue glass on King Tut’s death mask.

    If that’s the case, an extensive trade network likely ran from ancient Denmark to Egypt and Mesopotamia around 3,400 years ago, the researchers say.

    For the research, an international team of Danish and French archaeologists used a technique called plasma-mass spectrometry to analyze the chemical composition of 23 glass beads dating back to between 1400 and 1100 B.C. The set of beads was unearthed from Danish graves in the late 19th century.

    The analysis revealed that two cobalt beads in the set contained the same trace elements as glass made in Egypt around the same time, which suggests they came from the same region. In fact, the researchers say the new discovery is the first Egyptian cobalt glass that has been found outside the Mediterranean area."

    Maybe it is the first called Egyptian but Merovingian glass was archaeologically unearthed at Glastonbury.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-17-2016 at 09:13 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Monty Python took a quest
    Jesus he followed like the rest

    You nor I will never see
    'Cause first we solemnly must BE

    The Holy Grail by Tennyson or the works of Ossian are verdant archaeomythological playgrounds.

    "The Holy Grail

    by Alfred, Lord Tennyson

    From noiseful arms, and acts of prowess done
    In tournament or tilt, Sir Percivale,
    Whom Arthur and his knighthood called The Pure,
    Had passed into the silent life of prayer
    Praise, fast, and alms; and leaving for the cowl
    The helmet in an abbey far away
    From Camelot, there, and not long after, died.

    And one, a fellow-monk among the rest
    Ambrosius, {Merlin Amrosianus of the Merovingian Mesopotamian blood.} loved him much beyond the rest,
    And honoured him, and wrought into his heart
    A way by love that wakened love within,
    To answer that which came: and as they sat
    Beneath a world-old yew-tree, {Joseph's Palestinian Thorn} darkening half
    The cloisters, on a gustful April morn
    That puffed the swaying branches into smoke
    Above them, ere the summer when he died,
    The monk Ambrosius questioned Percivale:

    "O brother, I have seen this yew-tree smoke,
    Spring after spring, for half a hundred years:
    For never have I known the world without,
    Nor ever strayed beyond the pale: but thee,
    When first thou camest--such a courtesy
    Spake through the limbs and in the voice--I knew {Was Merlin or his spirit in the tree?}
    For one of those who eat in Arthur's hall;
    For good ye are and bad, and like to coins,
    Some true, some light, but every one of you
    Stamped with the image of the King; and now {Of the blood ready to do the quest within and no NEED of other.}
    Tell me, what drove thee from the Table Round,
    My brother? was it earthly passion crost?"

    "Nay," said the knight; "for no such passion mine.
    But the sweet vision of the Holy Grail
    Drove me from all vainglories, rivalries,
    And earthly heats that spring and sparkle out
    Among us in the jousts, while women watch
    Who wins, who falls; and waste the spiritual strength
    Within us, better offered up to Heaven."

    To whom the monk: "The Holy Grail!--I trust
    We are green in Heaven's eyes; but here too much
    We moulder--as to things without I mean--
    Yet one of your own knights, a guest of ours,
    Told us of this in our refectory,
    But spake with such a sadness and so low
    We heard not half of what he said. What is it?
    The phantom of a cup that comes and goes?" {The ley lines run through Glastonbury abbey or Tor are marked by cups and circles since before the first Merlin or Arthur - see Lyoness and Carnac's megaliths}

    Produced by Ray Flowers - Copyright©1995-2013 SanGraal - Revised: 09 Apr 2014 16:07:41 -0400"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-16-2016 at 05:01 PM.

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