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Thread: The Historical Jesus

  1. #1
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    The Historical Jesus

    We have a thread on many scholars saying Know Rome = Know Jesus which establishes Rome authored a propaganda program to cover it's ass in case Christianity grew useful. They also could wrap a whole new Empire up in a nice sounding rap which they would not have to share as much of the rewards, women, power and other things from whence eventually came great bounty. My books cover the point of what is real and good about the family of Jesus (Merovingians) but this thread will not quote my books or thoughts a great deal. For more on origins of Christianity and the family of Jesus you can read threads like this. http://forum.world-mysteries.com/thr...f-Christianity

    This is the kind of thing we should address in this thread. The chart includes many authors I have quoted including Eisenmann and Hyam Maccoby.

    http://www.religionfacts.com/historical-jesus

    "Historical Jesus Theories: Comparison Chart

    Modern historians have differentiated between the "historical Jesus" (what can be known about Jesus from academic historical study) and the "Christ of faith" (what can be known about Jesus through faith and theology) and attempted to discover the nature and teachings of the historical Jesus.

    The following chart provides a summary of the main “theories of the historical Jesus” and those who teach them (including those who believe the historical Jesus and the Christ of faith to be one and the same), listed in alphabetical order by author.

    It is important to note that although the authors are listed equally in this chart, not all have equal credentials or expertise, and some are not academics at all."


    It has been nice to have a positive role model named Jesus but it is even better to learn what he did and why his message is still relevant today. In order to do what he wanted we must know more than the liars have put into his mouth, I say. Some of the lies smell sweet and provide great fortunes for those who put those sweet-sounding verses into your heart and mind. But like most people who say they know Jesus, I say I have lived his life. However, I am not a Christian and obviously there was no such religion as Yeshua grew up and became a wise man like many in his family since Melchizedek, David and Sol - o - moon. I am going to stay on topic and not get into who this family was in the many millennia I know they were important. I am not even going to address the Halakah or other laws of his people - except to say Mishnah requires a teacher (Rabbi) to be married and not at all meek. Meek people will have to return to learn until they get it right, if you believe in ego re-incarnating for normal people, I do not. I am told the whole 'meek shall inherit the Earth' verse was improperly translated anyway. It was 'Mensch' and a 'mensch' is strong and loyal with the strength to give and to fight as the situation called for. Yeshua was a 'mensch' as the scholars mostly agree. He may not however, have been the bandit or zealot that Josephus wanted his Roman friends, who paid him well, to believe. Surely James the Righteous and likely older brother of Yeshua was part of the amalgam or myth we will consider. I like what many of these scholars say, including Marcus Borg.

    "Marcus J. Borg
    "A spirit person, subversive sage, social prophet, and movement founder who invited his followers and hearers into a transforming relationship with the same Spirit that he himself knew, and into a community whose social vision was shaped by the core value of compassion."

    Jesus did not believe he was the Messiah, nor did he regard "the supernatural coming of the Kingdom of God as a world-ending event in his own generation."

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time (1995) "


    Stephen Davies gives us an insight to a more magical adept who people gave ever-increasing power to, probably you have gone fishing and heard about the BIG one. This g-d projection and production is truly the BIG, BIGGER and BIGGEST one of all time.

    "A "spirit-possessed" healer who was possessed by the "Spirit of God," by which he performed his healings.

    Jesus' followers came to think of him as divine by identifying him with the Spirit of God that had possessed him.

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    Jesus the Healer: Possession, Trance, and the Origins of Christianity (1995)"


    Earl Doherty and most serious people know there is a whole lot of myth in the story, and yes, there are some wise things attributed to him. John 10:34 says "Ye are gods." and the Dag Hammadi Scrolls are closer to this kind of vision of the man or myth. They did not have two millennia of copywriters messing with them.

    The Bart Ehrman fellow surely is preaching to the choir in his Bible belt homeland. Maybe someone can tell me how a prophet who only has a few years in his prophecy for mankind to live keeps being quoted after a period of two thousand years. Bart rhymes with another explosive force with not so sweet smells. I do know these pulpit-pounders can speak out of every orifice all at once, but this is a rue four part harmony, he may even need to get the handcup under the arm in the pits going.

    "An apocalyptic prophet who expected the imminent end of the world.

    The teachings of Jesus are an "interim ethic" intended to apply to the short period of under a generation between the time of Jesus and the end of the age. Elements of realized eschatology in some of the gospels are a softening of Jesus' original message.

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium (1999)"


    Eisenmann fits the mold of Rome created a fiction and even describes Rome's motive as he notes their Jesus is a pacifist which would hopefully not incite riots and revolts.

    "A nationalistic Jew of insurrectionist bent.

    Jesus' teachings were continued by James the Just, but "Jamesian Christianity" was played down by the Gospels, which are pro-Gentile, pro-Roman fictions which deliberately portray Jesus as a pacifistic, spiritual Messiah. Jesus and Paul are also identified with figures in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    James the Brother of Jesus (1998)"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-15-2016 at 03:38 PM.

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    Then there are out and out Roman spokespeople still promoting their Pope as the only representative of wisdom or truth who should be accepted as fact just 'because'. Luke Timothy Johnson and a whole lot of gospel singing patter rollers and born-agains accept what Rome wrote as "gospel truth". I think Yeshua and any sane person would roll over in their grave if they heard what they supposedly were or are, do you think any of the Saints wanted their bones and body parts handled as they are?

    "The same as the "Christ of faith" - the Son of God who died for our sins. Johnson criticizes the Jesus Seminar for going beyond what little can actually be known about the historical Jesus. What is not known for certain (such as the resurrection) should be accepted based on tradition and the authority of the church.

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    The Real Jesus: The Misguided Quest for the Historical Jesus and Truth of the Traditional Gospels (1997)"


    The words of the De Vere scholar at Yale (Remember De Vere is a prime Merovingian family of Royals.) who I quote a lot in one or two of my books on Jesus, are important even today, after decades of further research and new facts.

    "Jarolsav Pelikan. Jesus Through The Centuries: His Place in the History of Culture. New Haven and London, England: Yale University Press, 1999. xxi + 270 pp. $14.00 (paper), ISBN 978-0-300-07987-6.

    Reviewed by Keith Harper (Associate Professor of Church History. Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary)
    Published on H-AmRel (March, 2000)


    Jesus Through the Centuries, for the Twenty-first Century

    Jesus of Nazareth once asked, "What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?" (Matthew 22:42). It was a probing question that did not allow for neutrality. That same question still carries a penetrating sense of urgency and Jarolsav Pelikan's Jesus Through The Centuries: His Place in the History of Culture offers insight into the various ways that people over the past twenty centuries have addressed this issue.

    Doubtless, Jesus Through the Centuries is a most unusual book. Originally published in 1985, this book quickly achieved an enviable status. Pelikan captures the complexities of an intriguing and enormously important historical figure, no mean feat in itself, and shows readers how each generation interprets the life and message of Jesus Christ in their own unique way. He first presented the thoughts, impressions and observations that became Jesus Through the Centuries in the William Clyde DeVane Lectures at Yale University. This setting led him to believe that his work offered something to a general audience as well as academic specialists, and he was right. Happily, Yale University Press agreed to reissue this masterpiece for a new, twenty-first century audience.

    Pelikan's work provides eighteen cultural images of Jesus over the past two thousand years that explore an ironic facet of Christianity. The writer of Hebrews proclaimed, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever" (Hebrews 13:8) and Jesus himself often preached on unity. Yet, historical, theological and cultural interpretations of Jesus depict a Christ that is eclectic and diversified, not homogeneous and static. For instance, Constantine's Jesus was a conquering king while most first century believers saw him as a "rabbi," unlike any other. Pelikan addressed this difficulty by choosing "The Beautiful, The True and The Good," as a framework to keep his differing, often conflicting, images of Christ from becoming too divergent. Consequently, Jesus the "Cosmic Christ" who compels humanity to question their universe paves the way for Jesus "The Teacher of Common Sense." At the same time, Jesus "The Son of Man" empathizes with humanity's sufferings and exhibits his transcendent love for humanity, both as Jesus "Christ Crucified" and Jesus "The Bridegroom of the Soul." Thus, as amazing as it might seem, the historical Jesus forges a common link for a host of unlikely fellows ranging from the Apostle Peter and Tertullian to David Hume and Thomas Jefferson.

    Jarolsav Pelikan's name is held in the highest regard by Church historians, and rightfully so. His works are always thoughtful and written in clear, graceful prose. In Jesus Through the Centuries he resists the temptation to merely describe Jesus at random points over the past two millennia. Pelikan's Jesus has not somehow managed to survive the ages. Rather, this panoramic view of Church history portrays a Jesus who has thrived through he ages and continues to do so. Yet, in describing Christ over time, Pelikan also gives readers a glimpse into his own soul. In the book's preface he says, "I think I have always wanted to write this book" (p. xv). Readers everywhere should be glad he did. This book is a masterful union of heart with mind that reflects Jarolsav Pelikan's vast erudition and personal piety. Moreover, one suspects that of all his books Jesus Through the Centuries may be his personal favorite. It has sold over 100,000 copies and was his first of his many works translated into Slavic languages.

    Finally, reading this book should leave readers with at least two impressions. On the one hand, it is refreshing to read a work that was obviously a labor of love for the author. Jarolsav Pelikan is more than an author; he is a craftsman who knows his craft well. On the other hand, this book may leave thoughtful readers more than a bit miffed at professional academics. If Pelikan can produce a readable, entertaining work on such a far-ranging, difficult topic, one can only wonder why Jesus Through the Centuries is an "exception" to general academic publishing norms and not the rule.

    Copyright (c) 2000 by H-Net, all rights reserved. This work may be copied for non-profit educational use if proper credit is given to the author and the list. For other permission, please contact [email protected]."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 07-05-2016 at 10:36 PM.

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    Jefferson had many issues but he is still one of the best people mankind has raised above the average illiterate and un-questioning hoi polloi.

    I draw your attention to his words "blood thirsty".

    Jefferson - “If we could believe that he [Jesus] really countenanced the follies, the falsehoods, and the charlatanism which his biographers [Gospels] father on him, and admit the misconstructions, interpolations, and theorizations of the fathers of the early, and the fanatics of the latter ages, the conclusion would be irresistible by every sound mind that he was an impostor... We find in the writings of his biographers matter of two distinct descriptions. First, a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstitions, fanaticisms and fabrications... That sect [Jews] had presented for the object of their worship, a being of terrific character, cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust... Jesus had to walk on the perilous confines of reason and religion: and a step to right or left might place him within the gripe of the priests of the superstition, a blood thirsty race, as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. They were constantly laying snares, too, to entangle him in the web of the law... That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore.

    [Letter to William Short, 4 August, 1820]”

    I suspect this Short is the son or grandson of a man who was sent from England to teach him Newton's alchemy for one year when Thomas was at William and Mary.

    Ingersoll -
    “Not one of the orthodox ministers dare preach what he thinks if he knows a majority of his congregation think otherwise. He knows that every member of his church stands guard over his brain with a creed, like a club, in his hand. He knows that he is not expected to search after the truth, but that he is employed to defend the creed. Every pulpit is a pillory, in which stands a hired culprit, defending the justice of his own imprisonment.”
    The Phoenicians are the people who we know as Philistines and others who colonized the Mediterranean. They are called the Sea People in some accounts or Danaus by Homer, and keltoi as well. The idea that there was a Cradle of Civilization in some Holy Land some time around the time Sumer had cuneiform tally system script is what still passes for history. It is all BS! When we go back to at least a half million years of civilization we will start to get rid of so many archaic ideas and take greater pride in what all races have contributed to what WE are.

    -"The excavations of Thomas W. Jacobsen at the Franchithi Cave on the Bay of Argos... by 13,000 - 11,000 B.C. and that the cultivation of hybrid grains, the domestication of animals, and organized community tuna hunts had already begun." (Britannica) Yet there are those who say we couldn't travel the ocean when obsidian had to be brought from a distance, at this time. They like to intimate we couldn't travel the oceans for a reason when they say (NY Public Library's Chronicles) the earliest recorded sea travel was in 2600 BC to Lebanon.

    No doubt there are people who think I am possessed by a Cathar demon or deluded about what I say about Illuminized people like Goethe. In Symbolical Masonry - an important Masonic book by Haywood we have these words in support of what I say.

    "Symbolical Masonry, by H.L. Haywood, [1923], at sacred-texts.com

    CHAPTER V

    THE HOODWINK

    I

    "Where were you prepared?" The answer made to that question opens for our vision a way into one of the secrets of Freemasonry. We must prepare ourselves in order to receive any teaching whatsoever, for we see only, as Goethe has expressed it, "that which we carry in our hearts." For this reason many of the Ancient Mysteries insisted on a long period of preparation, as do many churches to-day. For the same reason the Masonic lodge should see to it that the candidate is as fully prepared in mind as he is in body before he is given admittance to the door. In some parts of Europe, I have been told, an experienced Master Mason is appointed sponsor, or godfather, to a candidate; and lodges of instruction are held in which the petitioner is taught something of the history and principles of the Order. Surely this is a wise custom! Many a man—you yourself, perhaps, were one, as was I—has stepped into the First Degree without the slightest inkling of what "it was all about," with the consequence that he has been too bewildered to know whether to laugh or to cry. And how often it happens that a candidate passes from one degree to another as rapidly as he can learn the lectures, moving all the while in too great haste to comprehend the simplest rudiments of the great ideas and teachings that are dramatically presented to him moment after moment! To be "prepared in the heart" means that within one's own mind and feelings he is experiencing the meaning of that which he does and sees; if a candidate is hustled along too rapidly to be able to have any such understanding of the degrees, how can it be said that he is duly and truly prepared to be a Master Mason?

    The Ritual itself is wise in these connections because it recognises the fact that a man must be prepared in the heart as well as in the preparation room. Except a man's mood be right, except his will be in the appropriate attitude, except he act from true motives, and in a reverent prayerful frame of mind, the "work" will be to him as meaningless as an old wives’ tale. It is necessary that every lodge arrange to prepare the candidate's mind by previous instruction; and it is equally necessary that it build about the preparation room a wall of secrecy and sanctity in order to ward off the jest or careless word that may lead a candidate to approach the door in light or flippant mood.

    Being in Masonic ignorance, a seeker after light, and a representative of the natural untaught man, it is fitting that the candidate be made to walk in darkness by wearing the hoodwink which Mackey has well described as "a symbol of secrecy, silence, darkness, in which the mysteries of our art should be preserved from the unhallowed gaze of the profane." The use of the blindfold goes far back among secret societies, even to the Ancient Mysteries, in which the candidate was usually made to enter the sanctuary with eyes covered.

    The Cathari, whom Innocent III tried so hard to annihilate, and who were at bottom Christian mystics, were accustomed to call those seeking initiation into their mysteries "hoodwinked slaves," implying that the eyes of the soul were still blind in ignorance and lust. Our own use of the device is in harmony with these old customs and ideas. The purpose of the hoodwink is not to conceal something from the candidate, for it has another significance: it symbolises the fact that the candidate is yet in darkness, like the babe lying in its mother's womb. Being in darkness the candidate is expected to prepare his inmost mind for those revelations that will be made to him after the hoodwink is removed."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-23-2016 at 01:29 PM.

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    The Watchmen Fellows really do not like the Mormons - who I find to be far less hypocritical and equally deluded. I like to imagine the drafting parties of their Scripture who created the Book of Mormon (Was this the one done by the Conneaut, Ohio Methodist preacher?) as they named their god Moron and ended it with the 'i' or personal identifier for any who would believe it.

    Of course no person with the first name Jesus did any of what is in the Bible. The New Testament is Empire propaganda so this whole exercise in the appearance of logic does not even rise to the level of arguing how many angels fit on the head of a needle. Or does that needle have a hole in it like the Holy of Holies?

    "Timothy Oliver

    Mormons love to say that they are not trying to convert others to their religion; that the Holy Ghost does that. One need not take their word for the truth of their religion; one can appeal directly to God Himself for His testimony.

    They frequently refer people investigating their religion to a promise in the Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:4: "And when ye shall receive these things [the Book of Mormon], I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost."

    Christians refuting Mormonism sometimes point out that the verse directs one to ask "if these things are not true;" whereas most Mormons have asked, and urge Christians to ask, "if these things are true." However, these are both wordings of the same question, one put negatively, the other positively. There is really no difference, and no ground is won by such trivial objections.

    Still, it is appropriate to examine this "promise" to see if it is a valid means for testing the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. The Bible directs, "Prove [test, examine] all things; hold fast that which is good," (1 Thess. 5:21). This does not mean that we should do as the Book of Mormon directs. Testing, or examining this promise is not the same as using it. Rather, one must examine it beforehand; one must actually use it only after it has been examined and found good. If the promise is to be examined and found good before it is actually used, there must be some standard external to itself by which it can be examined or evaluated. God has given just such a standard in the Scriptures.

    However, the promise of Moroni 10:4 is given as a test by which one may know if the Book of Mormon is true. Since one cannot employ or apply the promise to find out about the Book of Mormon till one knows the promise itself is good, and a valid test, the Book of Mormon and the other "scriptures" brought forth by the Mormon church must be excluded from the standard by which one weighs this promise.

    The Bible alone, then, is the standard to which this promise must be compared. It was for just such tasks as this that it was written, and faithfully preserved to our day.

    First, is there anywhere in the Bible where God directs men to pray to find out if the scriptures are true or not? The answer is, "No." Does the Bible record Jesus or any apostle or prophet directing any person to pray to find out if what he was saying or writing was true or not? The answer, again, is, "No."

    Mormons sometimes claim James 1:5 as an example of such a direction. Is it really? The question of whether something is true or not is a question of facts. Possession of, or acquaintance with, facts, is knowledge. (Thus one speaks of knowing something is true, not of having wisdom that something is true.) Wisdom is the ability to interpret rightly the facts one knows, and the disposition to employ or act upon one's knowledge righteously. James 1:5 does not promise knowledge, but wisdom. Reading James 1 from the beginning one sees from the context that James was promising his readers that God would give them wisdom to understand why they were experiencing the trials and difficulties in which they found themselves. That they had such trials was a fact. It was "true" that they had difficulties. They "knew" that, and did not need God to tell them. But they needed wisdom to understand what they knew was true, and to respond to it righteously.

    James 1:5, when seen in context, cannot be taken as authorization for questions like, "Which church is true?" or, "Is the Book of Mormon true?" Those are questions of fact, of knowledge, not wisdom. God has promised wisdom for the asking. But He has never said that He would give knowledge or facts, simply by prayer. Thus, Moroni 10:4 directs one to ascertain truth, to gain knowledge, by a method and a standard nowhere recommended in the Bible as the proper means to such an end. Already, then, the directive and promise of Moroni 10:4 is on shaky ground.

    To the contrary, the Bible teaches both by precept and illustrative examples that the proper path to truth, the standard by which the truth of anything is to be known, is the scriptures (Luke 24:27; Acts 17:11; Rom. 15:4; 2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:3). The person seeking wisdom as James directs does not ask for new revelations but for understanding of those already given.

    Second, Moroni 10:4 is not so much of a promise as it is a manipulative device. It promises a particular result if certain terms are met. But the terms reflect on the seeker's integrity as regards both his sincerity and resolve, and on his faith in Christ. To be willing to rely on the promise of this verse as a test for the Book of Mormon's truthfulness one must already have concluded somehow that its instruction is valid and its promise reliable. That is, one must already believe in the "truthfulness" of this verse. If the verse is true, then the only possible explanation for failing to obtain the result promised is a failure to meet the terms. That is, one must lack a sincere heart, and/or real intent, and/or faith in Christ. If one believes the verse is true then one must obtain the answer promised, or face an embarrassing judgement of one's sincerity, intent, or faith in Christ. he seeker is forced into convincing himself he has had some kind of manifestation from God, just to vindicate his own character. Or worse, he is moved to a frame of mind where he will gladly and indiscriminately embrace any supernatural manifestation as though it were from God. Plain reason, not to mention all the force of Scripture's revelation of the character of God, testifies that God would not, does not, use such manipulative mind/ego games against the human family to bring them to believe the truth. God does not approve, and truth does not need, such machinations.

    Third, as noted earlier, using this verse as a test for the Book of Mormon's truthfulness would be pointless unless one had concluded already that its instruction is valid and its promise reliable. With no Biblical evidence for such a conclusion, its use is tacit admission that the Book of Mormon is true. Yet the terms on which the promise is offered forbid any such preconception."


    http://www.watchman.org/fast-facts/f...-on-mormonism/
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-15-2016 at 07:18 PM.

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    The link between Nazism and Christian (Roman) hatreds is strong. It was not just the fact that they had a concordant you can read, or that the Church never ex-communicated Hitler. It continues to this very day! When the Catholics allowed that Jews are part of the Christian cult about a dozen years ago it was laughable - implicit and utter nonsense! The fact is - anyone accepting the Gospels is no Christian - they are Empire genocidal maniacs and they seek sheep to shear and lay down their lives as cannon fodder or accept (in the case of women) a status less than the Halakah gives lesser Jews. It is canon law and not just 'harbinger' dogma! It is even worse in Islam - the other member of this cult which has over 20,000 denominations and almost as many gods (I am counting saints and angels.).

    A fundamental program of propaganda initiated before the war, during the war and after the war was not invented by Lao Tzu in his Art of War. It was not perfected when Rome infiltrated the Sanhedrin with it's minister of Mines (Joseph of Arimathaea) or employment of other so-called Jews like Josephus, Philo and Paul/Saul the assassin who lied when he said he was a Pharisee and admits he was a Benjaminite Roman citizen. I suspect the elite in Rome like Joseph of Arimathaea are either Benjaminites or Merovingians and I can document many such connections including the Brutti who founded it and Britain. In what follows you are given the impression Jesus (Yeshua and his older brother James) was the enemy of the Pharisees and vice versa. Real researchers know he was against the "inbred idiots" of the Temple Sadduccees and Herodian quisling regimes. The Pharisees maintained their integrity throughout the Roman and Parthia Empire and helped the poor and downtrodden like women. In fact anything in the Gospels can be taken as a reversal of actual fact. The scrolls found in Dag or Nag Hammadi as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls overseen by James the Just or Teacher of Righteousness (Read Magi) provide insight to real scholars and C. H. Douglas was active before they were found or translated.

    So we find a great deal of finger-pointing by partially interested parties with varying agendas quoting people with little or no expertise about a true history. Unfortunately good people like C. H. Douglas get drawn in to such quotes and propaganda. There is a lot of truth in every myth and story - Caesar's Journals are written by Hirtius his propagandist - for example. Churchill was an unusual politico in that he wrote his own scripts. But make no mistake he was just as clever as other people's scriptwriters. This particular scriptwriter starts out trying to explain how scripting history and it's myths is not his stock and trade.

    "HISTORY SHAPED BY MYTHS

    by Eric D. Butler


    What man believes governs what he does. Irrespective of whether a myth or legend is literally true of not, if people believe it to be true, this will play a part in shaping their activities. Belief in some myths is relatively harmless. A new book on Australia's most famous bushranger, Ned Kelly, seeks to present a more favourable image of the cold blooded murderer. Whether literally true or not, the myth concerning Kelly - "as game as Ned Kelly" - is relatively harmless. So is the legend concerning Robin Hood who, according legend, robbed the rich to give to the poor, although it might be argued that type of myth encourages the concept of the Welfare State. Realists will object to this view, pointing out that every individual suffers in some way at the hands of the Modern State.

    The harmless, or often beneficial myths of history, generally speaking, do not need to be sustained by constant propaganda. But the money myth, one which promotes the concept of money as a commodity, makes it possible to attempt to enslave the individual. Salvation requires that sufficient people reject this myth, and demand the implementation of policies which reflect reality. Writing in his Programme For The Third World War, C.H. Douglas, in referring to the importance of myths, said, "I have no doubt whatever that the Chosen Race Myth, with its corollary of Messianism, is the key myth of history, and that in it, we can find an almost a complete explanation of the world's insanity, (e.g. divorce from reality) and an almost complete indication of the path to recovery."

    Douglas's comment was made while the Second World War was still raging. Events since that conflict ended fifty years ago, have confirmed Douglas's view. In another view of his Second World War works, The Big Idea, Douglas wrote that "institutionalized Judeo-Christianity" had prevented the application of practical Christianity. In recent years there has been a relentless campaign to further dilute traditional Christianity. Representatives of the Christian Church now collaborate openly with representatives of Judaism who want the four synoptic Christian gospels to be rewritten, eliminating what are described as "offensive" comments concerning Christ's most bitter opponents, the Pharisees.

    Anyone who attempts to examine, however objectively, the far-reaching implications of the Jewish Chosen Race myth on history, is subjected to the "anti-semitic"smear. But it is some courageous Jews who have provided the deepest insights into this subject. It was the distinguished Sephardic Jewish writer and philosopher, Dr. Oscar Levy, who wrote of thousands of years of "madness associated with the Chosen Race Myth." Dr. Levy said that "The question of the Jews and their influence in the world, past and present, cuts to the core of all things and should be discussed by every honest thinker."

    A more recent contribution to the subject is by Israel Shahak, a retired Professor of Chemistry, and lifelong human rights activist. migrated to Israel in 1945. His work, Jewish History, Jewish Religion, with a Foreword by Gore Vidal, is packed with explosive statements such as, "Judaism is imbued with a very deep hatred towards Christianity, combined with ignorance about it." Reference is made to "malicious slanders against Jesus," concerning the subject of the Crucifixion.

    Shahak writes, "According to the Talmud, Jesus was executed by a proper rabbinical court for idolatry, inciting other Jews to idolatry, and contempt for rabbinical authority. All classical Jewish sources which mention his execution are quite happy to take responsibility for it; in the Talmudic account the Romans are not even mentioned". {Which is not proof of what he says - it is proof of them selling out or being threatened until their writings are what Rome wanted - see Josephus the Liar.}

    "The more popular accounts . . . such as the notorious Taldot Yesbu are even worse, for in addition to the above crimes they accuse him of witchcraft. {Which any adept can be convicted for - including every Catholic exorcist.} The very name Jesus was for Jews a symbol of all that is abominable, and this popular tradition still persists. The Gospels are equally detested, and they are not allowed to be quoted (let alone taught) in modern Jewish schools." {Why should they teach Roman propaganda blaming them for the death of a person who they knew well and who was not what Rome says?}

    We are told that compared with the harsh attitude towards Christianity, that concerning Islam is "relatively mild", and that Judaism "is totalitarian in nature." Shahak concludes his study stating that both Israel and Jews worldwide must face the test of facing an honest criticism of their past. "The most important part of such a critique must be detailed and honest confrontation of the Jewish attitude to non-Jews ... In last forty years the number of non-Jews killed by Jews is by greater than the number of Jews killed by non-Jews."

    The future of Christianity depends upon a sufficient number of Christians facing the reality of the Judaic campaign to dilute Christianity to the point where, in the words of one Jewish activist, "it is completely Judaised." The subject is being confused by what has become one of the major Myths of the twentieth century, that concerning "the Holocaust". What might be termed as "The Holocaust Dogma" has been elevated to the point where any criticism, however objective, of the dogmas is classed as "blasphemous". In two major Western European nations, France and Germany, critics of the dogma can result in imprisonment. Although an American citizen, Fred Leuchter, the man who demonstrated that no homicidal gas chambers could ever have operated in Poland, was arrested on a visit to Germany and later hounded so viciously that he apparently went into hiding when he managed to return to the USA.

    Now comes the chilling news that another American citizen, Hans Schmidt, of German background, has now been arrested during a visit to Germany. Schmidt's "crime" is that in a publication he issues in the U.S.A. he had questioned "The Holocaust". Presumably it is not safe for any critics of "the Holocaust" to make a visit to Germany, or France, without risking arrest. British historian David Irving is prohibited from continuing to visit Germany since he started expressing his doubts about "The Holocaust", the German ruling being used to prevent Irving from visiting Canada and Australia. Both the Canadian and Australian governments leave no doubt that they are not prepared to defy the Zionist Jewish propaganda machine.

    In his Jewish History, Jewish Religion, Israel Shahak lists Canada as one of the English speaking countries in which Jewish influence is particularly strong, a view confirmed by journalist Doug Collins during his recent visit to Australia.

    The future of Western Civilization is dependent on "The Chosen Race" Myth, now strongly buttressed by "The Holocaust" Dogma, being exposed and opposed. (Eric D. Butler)"

    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/myths.htm

  6. #6
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    If you have any regard for Masons and even if you do not, you must think about what the book Morals and Dogma has to say about Popes and their Gospel lies. You should ask lesser Masons why they say they are Christians or any religion really. The phrase "said to be" is tantamount to saying it is a lie or at least unsubstantiated.

    Back again to Pike and Morals et Dogma we have what I consider a confession about the myths and lies built up around their Lodges and the paraphernalia therein. It addresses their deities, their venerated Temple of Solomon and much more, pay close attention.


    "The ORNAMENTS of a Lodge are said to be "the Mosaic Pavement, the Indented Tessel, and the Blazing Star." The Mosaic Pavement, chequered in squares or lozenges, is said to represent the ground-floor of King Solomon's Temple; and the Indented Tessel "that beautiful tesselated border which surrounded it." The Blazing Star in the centre is said to be "an emblem of Divine Providence, and commemorative of the star which appeared to guide the wise men of the East to the place of our Saviour's nativity." But "there was no stone seen" within the Temple. The walls were covered with planks of cedar, and the floor was covered with planks of fir. There is no evidence that there was such a pavement or floor in the Temple, or such a bordering. In England, anciently, the Tracing-Board was surrounded with an indented border; and it is only in America that such a border is put around the Mosaic pavement. The tesserę, indeed, are the squares or lozenges of the pavement. In England, also, "the indented or denticulated border" is called "tesselated," because it has four "tassels," said to represent Temperance, Fortitude, Prudence, and Justice. It was termed the Indented Trassel; but this is a misuse of words. It is a tesserated pavement, with an indented border round it.

    The pavement, alternately black and white, symbolizes, whether so intended or not, the Good and Evil Principles of the Egyptian and Persian creed. It is the warfare of Michael and Satan, of the Gods and Titans, of Balder and Lok; between light and shadow, which is darkness; Day and Night; Freedom and Despotism; Religious Liberty and the Arbitrary Dogmas of a Church that thinks for its votaries, and whose Pontiff claims to be infallible, and the decretals of its Councils to constitute a gospel.

    The edges of this pavement, if in lozenges, will necessarily be indented or denticulated, toothed like a saw; and to complete and finish it a bordering is necessary. It is completed by tassels as ornaments at the corners. If these and the bordering have any symbolic meaning, it is fanciful and arbitrary."

  7. #7
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    Newly discovered evidence on Jesus can be claimed even when it is obvious to any romance language speaking person who listens to themselves talk. But I can leave it to the reader in this case without going into the linguistics, encyclicals like Dominus Iesoos or even IXOYE. For the reader who has not read the thousand other proofs from actual scholars and science about the work I have done to prove authors like Sir James Frazer (Golden Bough), Robert Graves (The White Goddess), Conor MacDari (Irish Wisdom), W. F. Albright and a thousand others they quoted in the early part of the 20th Century. I will lead us into what the Nazarenes say about Apollo with one simple quote from Graves addressing Apollo who like every other Mediterranean god and every language of the region is absolutely connected with the Phoenicians and acknowledged by almost every investigation, from any discipline of study.

    *3
    Conquering gods their titles take
    From the foes they captive make,
    and that to know the name of a deity at any given place or period, is far less important than to know the nature of the sacrifices that he or she was then offered. The powers of the gods were continuously being redefined. The Greek god Apollo, for instance, seems to have begun as the Demon of a Mouse-fraternity in pre-Aryan totemistic Europe: he gradually rose in divine rank by force of arms, blackmail and fraud until he became the patron of Music, Poetry and the Arts and finally, in some regions at least, ousted his 'father' Zeus from the Sovereignty of the Universe by identifying himself with Belinus the intellectual God of Light. Jehovah, the God of the Jews, has a still more complex history."


    How can we teach the 'speaking in tongue' reversal to Ogham dialects if there is no etheric bank of knowledge called Ein Sof, the Akashic or other similar conceptualizations in language? Is it through that same ether or medium that we can attune to achieve bibliomancy, soul mates, decrees, action-at-a-distance and enhanced horizontal gene transfer now being proven?

    How can we, most importantly, return to the meaning of Iesa or Iesoos and other spellings including revered code such as Gizeh and Hejaz (on the Arabic side of these things). It is a meaning which these religious people could learn and free mankind from the incessant threat of their wars and Armageddon. It is Brotherhood and g-d (good or god when removing vowels in early scripts).

    "
    The Nazarene Way of Essenic Studies

    Yeshua, Jesus, or YH-Zeus?

    The fourth-century Roman Emperor Constantine believed that Jesus was the reincarnation of Apollo, the son of the Greek god Zeus.

    Most scholars have assumed that Constantine was mistaken.

    However, a newly revived ancient method of biblical exegesis suggests that Constantine was closer to the truth than "traditional assumptions" when it comes to "The Real Name of Jesus."

    This method of biblical interpretation comes from the teachings of Philo of Alexandria and are known as "Philo's Rules for Enigmas."

    Philo's method is fully explained at: http://www.thenazareneway.com/Philo'...20Allegory.htm

    This article contains recently discovered evidence that reveals "The Real Name of Jesus" was Yah-Zeus, the merging of the Hebrew god, YHWH and the Greco-Roman god Zeus.

    (The original article that offers the traditional explanation for the name "Yeshua" is presented at the end of this article in its entirety.)

    No one can argue that The Story of Jesus found in the gospels fulfills several Old Testament prophecies. One of the most important was:

    Micah 5:2: "But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to rule in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days."

    5:4: "And he shall stand and feed his flock in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of [YHWH] his God…"

    5:5: "… and he shall be the one of peace."

    Yah-Zeus from Bethlehem was also a dying-and-resurrected god, joining the ranks of Near Eastern and Greek deities: Baal, Melquart, Adonis, Eshmun, Attic, Tammuz, Asclepius, Orpheus, Krishna, Ra, Osiris, Dionysus, Odin, as well as goddesses, Inanna, Ishtar, Persephone, and the central figure of the Eleusian Mysteries, an unnamed goddess worshiped in Crete.

    Scholar Franz Cumont classified Jesus as a syncretized example of this archetype. The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn drew parallels between Jesus, Osiris, and other solar dying-and-resurrected gods to construct their system of mysticism and theosophy. New Testament scholar Robert M. Price points out the strong parallels between The Jesus Story and other Middle Eastern myths about life-death-rebirth deities.

    But a question looms regarding Yah-Zeus: We know that YaHWeH was the Jewish masculine deity; therefore, Yah was his son, the Messiah. Was Zeus a dying-and resurrected god? The answer is no. However, Zeus played an important role in a Homeric Hymn (c. 650 BCE) about a dying-and-resurrected Goddess. According to Homer:"



    http://www.thenazareneway.com/yeshua..._real_name.htm
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-26-2016 at 09:34 AM.

  8. #8
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    You should know that Hitler said he was 'the torch-bearer for Jesus' and that he knew more about the family of Jesus than you (probably) do. His studies were extensive before he took power and began to fulfill the Thule Society need for a German Messiah which Eckart proclaimed him to be upon their first meeting. That means (to me) Eckart was part of the controlling group who molded Hitler since his father took the same occult courses for five years in Vienna and then raised his son to be what he became, as best he could.

    The archetype to avatar issue is hard to disassemble because a person becomes obsessed and to some degree possessed by the knowledge they gain. I do not regard Hitler as an avatar like Devi did or Eckart with his Messiah implant, but I suppose there were times (for some people) when he was at that level.

    The blogspot which follows is very good, I am glad there is so much more addressing these things I dealt with in my books and involvement on the web for five years over a decade ago. It has many other quotes from Hitler and addresses what Jung wrote about Hitler as an archetype or avatar of Wotan.

    "Julius Evola who was critical of the Third Reich states in Notes on the Third Reich[1964]:


    "Everything gravitated around a man with exceptional abilities for captivating, transporting, arousing and fanaticising the people, while he himself presented under more than one aspect the traits of a possessed person, as if an extraordinary force were acting through him, giving him lucidity and iron logic in action, but depriving him of every sense of limit."


    http://aryan-myth-and-metahistory.bl...an-avatar.html

  9. #9
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    In Wikipedia just after Bart Ehrmann declares there is nothing in the Bible saying Jesus ever married or had any desire for sex we have the following. It does not matter if a person written about by Rome for the purposes of Rome and blaming Jews or the people, has anything at all as far as I am concerned. Bart notes there is nothing in the Dead Sea Scrolls which contribute to these myths either. He is wrong because there are Scrolls that do and we might even find more. But one has to actually study the spiritual and esoteric meaning to glean from code (remember we are talking about knowledge and power, people could die for or because of) any truth in any ancient texts after Empire thrust it's ugly presence over all humanity.

    "Gospel of Jesus' Wife[edit]

    The "Gospel of Jesus' Wife", a Coptic papyrus fragment unveiled in 2012, presents Jesus as speaking of his wife: "My wife ... she will be able to be my disciple." If genuine, it appears to date to around the 6th to 9th centuries AD, and would suggest that some Egyptian Christians of that period believed that Jesus was married. Although it does not contain the name of Mary Magdalene, there has been speculation that she is the woman referred to.[6] However, there is substantial scholarly concern about the fragment's authenticity, with a number of scholars regarding it as a modern forgery.[7][8][9]

    The notion of a marriage between Jesus and Mary Magdalene has been a frequent topic in literature, and within the 1982 book, The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and subsequently Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code". {And thousands more.}

    Homosexuality[edit]

    The Disciple Whom Jesus Loved[edit]

    Main article: disciple whom Jesus loved

    The Gospel of John makes references to the disciple whom Jesus loved (John 13:23, 19:26, 21:7-20), a phrase which does not occur in the Synoptic Gospels. In the text, this beloved disciple is present at the crucifixion of Jesus, with Jesus' mother, Mary.

    The disciple whom Jesus loved may be a self-reference by the author of the Gospel (John 21:24), traditionally regarded as John the Apostle. Rollan McCleary, author of Signs for a Messiah, thinks this identification would make the phrase highly significant.[10]


    In subsequent centuries the reference was used by those who supported a homoerotic reading of the relationship. For example, Aelred of Rievaulx, in his work Spiritual Friendship, referred to the relationship of Jesus and John as a "marriage" and held it out as an example sanctioning friendships between clerics.[11]

    James I of England may have been relying on a pre-existing tradition when he defended his relationship with the young Duke of Buckingham: "I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect, for Jesus Christ did the same, and therefore I cannot be blamed. Christ had his son John, and I have my George."[12]"

  10. #10
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    The book that follows mentions Ogham and how Jesus was near Glastonbury and other places I have covered. I have a hard time believing my work did not inspire this person.

    "

    Published: March 15, 2010

    Publisher: HAMPTON ROADS PUBLISHING

    Language: English

    ISBN - 10: 1571746072

    ISBN - 13: 9781571746078

    From the Publisher

    Where was Jesus for the first thirty years of his life? Where was he taught? Who were his teachers? Jesus: The Explosive Story of the 30 Lost Years and the Ancient Mystery Religions offers startling new evidence culled from hard-to-find Vatican texts, theosophical classics, legends, and systems of hermetic symbolism and used to construct a radical new timeline of Jesus' life. The book clearly shows that Jesus spent seven years in Egypt, a number of years in England, and several years in India and Tibet before beginning his public ministry in Palestine.

    This is the most comprehensive look at the direct links and similarities between Jesus' teachings and the teachings of various mystery religions and sects that were popular at the time, including the Essenes, Buddhists, and Druids. Author Tricia McCannon offers compelling evidence that places Jesus' life and mission firmly in the context of deeper spiritual teachings that came before him."


    Bishop Ussher and many Bible Scientists (Oxymoron alert) calculate we have a young Earth and dinosaurs must have been happy go lucky creatures with no taste for we humans. I know our kids love to play with their dinosaurs - they must reason, it is like the big shaggy dog who loves little and stupid humans. I should amuse myself in other ways, I suppose.

    Here we have amusing rationales - to my way of thinking.

    "What Does Pre-Human Existence Mean?

    by Raymond C. Faircloth

    In philosophical ideas the concept of the pre-human existence of a spirit person in heaven with an intangible body who later became the human embryo that was Jesus in Mary’s womb has been proposed to mean either that: 1. The whole spirit person was transferred completely and directly into the womb of Mary. Or 2. The whole spirit person was changed directly into a human embryo in Mary’s womb. Or 3. The personality of the spirit person was transferred directly into the human embryo. Or 4. The life or intangible life-force of the spirit person was transferred directly into the human embryo.

    Analysing Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Teaching of a Pre-Human Jesus

    Jehovah’s Witnesses and the various Bible Student groups teach that Jesus, on earth, was fully human and was the equal of the pristine Adam. This teaching means that he was not a hybrid - part human/part spirit creature. Yet these denominations also teach that Jesus had a pre-human existence, having been created as a spirit before the Genesis creation. Then at the time of Jesus’ conception the spirit creature’s life was transferred to Mary’s womb. The Bible Student groups generally do not accept the Jehovah’s Witnesses teaching that Jesus was previously the archangel Michael; but nevertheless they believe that he previously was a spirit person existing in heaven. However, the same reasoning applies in both camps and in support of such teaching appeal is made to Philippians 2 and the concept of kenosis whereby a spirit person completely emptied himself of himself and entered Mary’s womb. (This teaching is a form of Arianism). (NOTE: The concept of Kenosis is also appealed to by many Trinitarians. Please see STUDY 15 which shows that Philippians 2 does not teach any ontological emptying by Jesus of his essence).

    In analysing the four proposals stated at the beginning it is evident that: #1 If the whole spirit person had been transferred completely and directly into the womb of Mary it would create a physical hybrid i.e. part spirit/part human. This is the very Gnostic teaching which early Christianity slaved to keep out of the congregation; yet it reappeared in the form of the later speculations in Trinitarianism whereby a proposed ‘God the Son’ entered Mary’s womb and was born as Jesus - a being who was a God/man. If this concept were applied to Michael the archangel it would result in an angel/man. #2 If the whole spirit person had been changed completely into a human embryo in Mary’s womb then a fully human Jesus would be the result. However, such a change would:

     Be a Greek philosophical speculation which has also been used by science fiction writers.

     Break God’s law for there being no crossing of the barriers of the species i.e. everything as being kept “according to its kind” (Gen. 1:21, 24) and therefore no change from angel to human is possible.

     Preclude any past connection with the previous life regarding character, accumulated knowledge, wisdom, and supernatural powers because Jesus would go through the stages from embryo to child etc. So we must ask: At what point in his life would Jesus have acquired such abilities? However, the Bible provides no hint of any time when he gained these, only that God did miraculous works through him (Acts 2:22, 23; 10:38; John 5:19, 14:10b). In other words Jesus never, at any time, intrinsically had any super powers or abilities. So for Jehovah to have transferred a whole spirit person to a womb would be a pointless exercise and Jehovah may just as well have directly made another Adam from the dust of the ground. #3 If the life as the personality of the spirit person had been transferred directly into the human embryo, then a hybrid human Jesus would still be the result, because of his having the character, accumulated knowledge, wisdom, and abilities of the super-powerful spirit person. But this concept would mean that:

     Personality is something separate from body? But is one’s body only the external and the personality only the internal part of a person? Such an idea smacks of the pagan Greek concept of the inner person as being a separate soul.

    2  Such a person would, in some sense, be superhuman and therefore not really a human. #4 If the life, as the intangible life-force of the spirit person, had been transferred directly into the human embryo, then, in biblical terms, an impossible scenario arises because life or life-force is impersonal and pervades all of living creation. So there could be no transferral of the intangible life-force of any specific spirit person, which leaves the creation of a Jesus who is fully and purely human with no connection to any past life.


    Following the Logic of WBTS Teaching

    The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society appears to have presented very little reasoning on what the concept of a pre-human Jesus must mean or how such a concept really works. Their Bible encyclopaedia Insight on the Scriptures Vol. 2, p. 56 speaks only of: “the transferral of the life of his first-born son from the spirit realm to earth.” Additionally they teach that: 1. Spirit persons have bodies. Insight on the Scriptures Vol. 1 states: “the bodies of spirit persons (God, Christ, the angels) are glorious,” (p. 348). 2. The soul (the whole person) = body + spirit. 3. Spirit = life, life force or life principle all of which are impersonal. See Insight on the Scriptures Vol. 2, p. 246, sub-heading ‘Organism.’
    Yet the WBTS also teaches that only the archangel Michael’s life was transferred to Mary’s womb. So because they teach that creatures in heaven have spiritual bodies [albeit intangible] we must ask what does such transferral of life mean? Was the spirit person’s body also transferred or was it left lifeless in heaven?....

    ANALOGY

    As an analogy consider that if someone removes a car engine from say a Nissan Micra and has it fitted into a Rolls Royce does one still have a genuine Rolls Royce? Absolutely not!! It is a very substandard hybrid Rolls Royce/Micra. So if a powerful spirit creature existed in heaven and then was transferred to the womb of a human woman, he still carries with him the spirit equivalent of DNA which is then hybridized with human genetics and so is sub-standard in all respects rather than his being the perfect human that is detailed in the Scriptures. It is no good for Jehovah’s Witnesses to claim that they view Jesus as 100% human because that does not fit with their presentation of a scenario in which a pre-existent spirit is reformed in the womb of a human. Again please note the impossibility of transferring a personality without its body. "

    http://www.biblicaltruthseekers.co.u...LLY-MEAN-2.pdf
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-02-2016 at 04:37 PM.

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