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Thread: G. I. Gurdjieff

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    G. I. Gurdjieff

    This thread will never have an end. It is about the Human Potential and Love, so we can not ever avoid it. I do hope.

    The whole human potential movement is affected by Gurdjieff. That is a fact, I can and have written at least one book about him and I have addressed human spirituality in every book I write. For over ten years I have watched my book on Gurdjieff sell as well as my book on Tesla and it appears to me that certain schools or groups in Scotland have used it as a source book for study. These books are self-published and not promoted. Love is a key ingredient in healing - I know. You might think I am a New Ager or some equally ridiculous umbrella term including fakirs and freaks. That is OK, but do try to think despite your prejudices. And remember there is no THE Way.

    If people garner only one thing from all I have written I hope it would be "what's love got to do with IT."

    If you learn what love is from Gurdjieff you will change your life as so many people did. But you probably will decrease the number of people you can truly love (Not sex) because you will also no longer be a "sleepwalker". Love is not what Tina said; "a second hand emotion".

    I saw Tina in a Hotel ballroom in Acapulco as she made a career comeback and finally took control of her life. Yesterday I saw a show called American Pickers when a Chicago music and record Hall of Famer was evaluating some records they had bought. The 83 year old man said Tina still sent Ike some money now and then. I was at a major bar in Chicago once upon a time when a popular local artist or band covering Tina was playing - it was crowded and I was near the stage singing along with Proud Mary. The lead singer reached out the microphone and I sang the last minute of the song. Many are they who have noted my various voices which they have said would make me a radio personality or whatever. Gurdjieff and Cleopatra (Cicero called enchanting though he was not enchanted with her.) were some of my inspirational teachers in the use of voices.

    I cannot quibble with such examples of forgiveness as I have used Marianne Williamson's book Return to Love, to help many abused women. It makes love and forgiveness the central means of recovery. At the same time, I despise the Cycle of Violence which causes war, and child abuse as well as what passes for nation's existence and society being what it is. That is a grand indictment but it is nonetheless true and religion has been central to the Cycle of Violence. The Sufis mentioned in this website account of Gurdjieff (Cat Stevens also joined) are from far earlier times and when it says Gurdjieff is of Greek heritage it is talking about the Danaus who his Caucasian forbears started or colonized. Another student of Gurdjieff named Idries Shah takes this back before the Sarman or Sarmoung Brotherhood Gurdjieff wrote about who are in the title of my book.

    At present I am still doing further cutting edge research on these matters and I am sure I have the truest history out there. Shah takes it back before white people existed for about 40,000 years. Due to recent evidences in science I can easily identify the Ainu for 200,000 years as this source but I go back a great deal more for this knowledge and civilization. In the time of Genghis Khan it was said a woman with a container of gold on her head could walk across the entire Empire (the largest ever) and not be either raped or robbed. There are many similarities between Gurdjieff, Rasputin and Temujin. Their esoteric roots (not known to Wiki authors, are identical).

    ""...Rom Landau was one of the first to compare Gurdjieff to Rasputin. Describing a meeting with Gurdjieff, he explains: 'I had been specially careful not to look at Gurdjieff and not to allow him to look into my eyes...'" Time magazine once described Gurdjieff as "a remarkable blend of P.T. Barnum, Rasputin, Freud, Groucho Marx and everybody's grandfather."
    "---“With ordinary love goes hate. I love this, I hate that. Today I love you, next week, or next hour, or next minute, I hate you. He who can really love can be; he who can be, can do; he who can do, is.” So, really, to love one must first exist. Be conscious.---"
    "A particularly hard-core dilation of this notion posits that we are all sleepwalking through life, and desperate measures are required to wake us up, and smell the coffee. James Joyce, William Butler Yeats, Aleister Crowley, G.I. Gurdjieff and Timothy Leary are among the twentieth century thinkers who employed the sleepwalker trope. Gurdjieff and Crowley were infected with the idea through their study of Sufism; and Leary through his study of Gurdjieff. Sufism sees ordinary consciousness as unconsciousness and the project of Sufism is to wake us up and keep us awake to “The Real”.

    “To know about real love,” Gurdjieff said, “one must forget all about love and must look for direction. {The Logos or Divine Purpose, Bhakti is a path.}” These notes are from a January 1924 meeting between Gurdjieff and some of his students, as recorded in C.S. Nott’s fascinating Teachings of Gurdjieff: A Pupil’s Journal:

    “As we are we cannot love. We love because something in ourselves combines with another’s emanations; this starts pleasant associations, perhaps because of chemico-physical emanations from instinctive centre, emotional centre, or intellectual centre; or it may be from influences of external form; or from feelings — I love you because you love me, or because you don’t love me; suggestions of others, sense of superiority; from pity; and for many other reasons, subjective and egoistic…We project our feelings on others. Anger begets anger. We receive what we give. Everything attracts or repels.”"

    "Corey Donovan: As I weave my way through the writings of Gurdjieff and those who knew him, I am constantly finding thoughtful explanations like this that make me feel that, in Castaneda's writings, either don Juan (if such a person existed) or Castaneda himself may have been a purveyor of "Gurdjieff lite." Another factor in Castaneda's failure until close to the end to talk of his own sex life in a public setting (and then, to the Sunday group, only obliquely) was the basic prudishness with which young men of his social class were raised in the Latin America of the 20's and 30's. It was this same inhibition, in my view, that made him so appalled by men who dressed in shorts, or women who wore "revealing" outfits."

    "---Writes Kenneth Cavandar in his essay on Gurdjieff: “Even his towering rages seemed to be deliberate act, from which he himself stood a little apart, watching to see what effect they would have on their audience.” In one of the rare moments when he was taken to task for verbally abusing a disciple, and why he bothered with such people if he was to repudiate them so thoroughly later, he is said to have replied, “I needed rats for my experiments.” He had a thirst for money, demanding cash payment for even minor services, and his liaisons with female followers left a number of illegitimate children; eight, according to one account. Not an especially likable character, from the sounds of it, but in his travels from Moscow to Paris to Istanbul, the bald man with the piercing gaze was never short of worshipful follower (whom he classified into 21 categories of “idiots”). ----"

    In a book not really available (There are two on Amazon for $999.11) called The Sacred and the Profane I find what I suspect I had read in Morning of the Magicians a long time ago. If not in that book it would have been in one of Gurdjieff's books such as Meetings with Remarkable Men. Gurdjieff did meet Rasputin after he had worked out a Russo-Tibet treaty with the Czar who failed to step in when the British invaded Tibet and Gurdjieff had failed to convert the Czar to Buddhism. I would not say the Dalai Lama brand of religion is simple Buddhism, and it is more similar to what Gurdjieff wrote about having met in the mountains. Much more like what he taught in his schools of dance to discipline and soul. I think a reading of Milarepa will give you more of why I say this, it is ancient and occult. You can try to get information on the Tulkus here, but I have not posted a great deal on it.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-08-2016 at 09:18 PM. Reason: add content

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I almost put this thread under the Alchemy heading because a great deal of what Gurdjieff and Blavatsky have done is actually not from the places they say they got it. But in the case of Gurdjieff he was more likely aware of even more ancient sources than many hermetics scholars of his era. Here you can easily see the matter in a video.

    Just another rip off or partial understanding of hermetic teachings - but here it is.

    Mme. H. P. Blavatsky, H. P. Lovecraft and Rudolf Steiner are all worth reading, I suppose. They got most of their insight from hermetics and ancient books like the books of the dead (modern name). But I tire of all the people following this path and taking pieces of truth - then ramming them with a fad or immoral concept - and making themselves more important than those who conceived these things long before they existed.

    To act and act wisely when the time for action comes, to wait and wait patiently when it is time for repose, put man in accord with the rising and falling tides (of affairs). So that with nature and law at his back, and truth and beneficence as his beacon light, he may accomplish wonders. Ignorance of this law results in periods of unreasoning enthusiasm on the one hand, and depression on the other. Man thus becomes the victim of the tides when he should be their Master. - H. P. Blavatsky

    I will de-construct this saying to find the errors or truths.

    The first sentence has not said when one KNOWS how to act, It has not determined what 'repose' should entail. Does it entail meditation upon what one might ACT upon? Are "affairs" actually not worth acting upon at all? I see no LAW and no methods. Therefore the second sentence is an illusion or ego appealing to whatever MASTERY or power the "affairs" direct.

    The final sentence should ask a person to see depression as a moment for acting on a valuable insight or reflection upon the ego and how it works in the knowing that it soon will pass. In knowing the moments of great enthusiasm can also do the same deception can an individual work on knowing how to make use of enthusiasms and do it with balance?

    The sex rituals of Rosicrucianity which Blavatsky borrowed from and which a modern day cult or three called religions entail have little to do with the love spoken to by Gurdjieff in my opinion. That does not mean he did not participate in them on the way to learning what he did. It makes him a much more advanced soul than the Mormons, Unity Churchians and AMORC who are infected by Blavatsky and her effluent or adepts. I have researched the matter a great deal and I will put just one story here to illustrate what began my researches into connections past Nauvoo and the swinger's clubs of Unity which my oldest brother was into due to a minister who spoke at the funeral of my father. It also has more recent tales associated in the minds of people who think true enlightenment is available in Rosicrucianity or any cult and religion. Yoga should never become that kind of discipline and very high Rosicrucians I have known since my time in Salt Lake City mentioned in this post, find agreement with me, and more akin to thinking I am more enlightened than people AMORC worship or fool-owe. Would I call Gurdjieff an Illuminati? Yes, I will allow he reached that level of at - one -ment or glimpsed it from time to time. His meeting with Crowley is one instance when he showed a far greater knowledge than those who pursue powers or what Eastern thought calls Siddhis. That word brings us to the Sidhe of the DNN or D'Ainu.

    The mind is not alone in our body or our soul. Put that in your pipe for an hour or two and then consider what your spirit and experiences are part and parcel of. Is the collective mind something you can attune with as you make love? What effect will that have on the genes you are sharing and passing on to our future society? This is the realm of social engineering about to make waves, perhaps.

    Stress effects are genetically passed from generation to generation. If this experiential type of data is transferred through our genes - imagine how much like a computer chip our brains truly are? Or is this like Horizontal gene transfer in lesser life forms which I think occurs in all life forms and explains what we have called intuition? I have written about occult genetic information transfer for decades, and I see many current science proofs are in line with what I wrote. The most important one being the lymph system which I connected with psychic points charts and chakras as a teenager, now proven to exist in the brain as of 2015, at the University of Virginia (Kevin Lee).

    I say we can heal ourselves and if we learn to address this properly as we grow up it will make our offspring more adept at many things. St. Germain set up schools in Vienna to accentuate these abilities and he never aged a day according to Voltaire - in the 50 years he knew him. That does not mean he was immortal as some fraudsters are out there selling.

    There are possible ways to ensure this does not happen if we make love only when we have been stress free, perhaps. Does this mean aggression in our kinks or ways of making love is not good? Would gestation in gravity free environments for a few hours a week help? When does the information get embedded?

    "A father’s stress may directly affect his son’s health.

    In mice, males exposed to repeated psychological stress developed high blood sugar — and so did their unstressed male offspring, researchers report online February 18 in Cell Metabolism. Stress appeared to alter chemical tags on the DNA in a male’s sperm. These epigenetic tweaks were then passed onto male pups, which produced higher levels of blood sugar-generating proteins in their livers than mice sired by unstressed fathers. If the frazzled fathers received daily doses of a drug that blocked stress hormones before mating, their sons’ increased blood sugar was mostly prevented, the team found.

    The results call for further exploration of how a father’s experiences or actions — for example, smoking or exposure to toxins — may impact his children’s health, the scientists say."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-18-2016 at 01:01 PM. Reason: add content

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I have benefitted greatly from reading Yogananda as well as many of his mentors and other Yoga disciplines. However, I do find the Self-Realization Fellowship has been turned into a cult and a very dangerous one that seeks to use any means to gain money and power, over a person. Unlike my oldest brother I always felt weird about Hare Krishna. I felt the 'vibe' when I last attended a meeting about 15 years ago. They do not fully screw over their sheep as much as cults like $cientology but they also do not care if a person has a unhealthy attachment to them and their cult, in fact that is a desired outcome. I guess you could simply say they are like most churches ministering to their faithful, but that is abhorrent to a person who knows Yogananda taught freedom from such NEED. A SRF leader named Faye Wright was given a huge mansion by Doris Duke who seems to have behaved in a manner I know is due to the Cycle of Violence. I do not think she learned it as a spy for the OSS, I think it was part of her life before that.

    There is a site which has an ex-SRF black files theme that brings us a story most fantastic and yet I believe elements of it, due to knowledge from people who traveled in the same circles with the likes of Errol Flynn.

    "Salutations to Deculted and Propagandananda for being interested in history and how the world works (by conspiracy always), rare among those touched by SRF

    . Perhaps Propagandananda will come across information about the German body builder whom Gandhi was infatuated with. I wonder if he was working for German intelligence. The Germans might well have wished to sever Britain from her Crown-jewel colony and might have schemed to use Gandhi as their tool. In any event, one never thinks about such possibilities when wearing the horse-blinders of conventional sexual morality, "morality in the small," as some political theorists refer to it.

    A few more words about Doris Duke, a very interesting and talented person, but quite a mystery also. She had enough money to keep parts of her life secret. Many of her admirers believe her extant biographies are disinformation. She is portrayed as a “poor little rich girl who sought love in all the wrong places.” But this was a very intelligent woman who successfully sued her own mother at age 14 and ran a large financial empire for many years, with substantial profits. Not a push-over.

    Some things that are publicly known: Doris Duke’s second marriage was to Caribbean playboy and reported assassin of several Caribbean political figures, Porifio Rubirios. Doris paid the wife of Porifio one million dollars to divorce him, ostensibly in order to marry Porifio and his enormous male endowment, said to be “one foot-long and thick as a beer can.” (some restaurants to this day bring over-sized wooden pepper-grinders called “Rubirioses” to their tables in celebration). A spies in the intelligence community write in his autobiography that he warned Doris that Porifio required regular conquests of women, so he couldn’t possibly remain faithful. Also, it was noted that although his endowment was impressive, it probably wasn’t worth one million smackeroos. Not taking any chances that Porifio might assassinate Doris and claim the billion-dollar plus estate and move that money out of the US, intelligence agents drugged Porifio’s drinks just before the wedding and got him to sign a pre-nup agreement. This may have soured the marriage somewhat, it lasted about a year and a half. This was not an SRF wedding.

    I wonder if the wedding was James-Bond-type theatrics to hide some kind of intelligence gathering in the Caribbean. There’s a dictum in spy work, “do something stupid as a cover.” Did Doris Duke ever leave the CIA? We will never know. As a German poet wrote, “little knowledge and much joy is given to mortals.” (Holderlin).

    On the more comical side, consider this description of Doris Duke’s last days has reported by Dan Russell in one of his articles on SRF for the New Times (hope I got the name of that paper right).

    …But perhaps the most unusual of Daya Mata’s circle was the late tobacco heiress Doris Duke, who, when she died under mysterious circumstances in 1993, was reputed to be worth 1.2 billion, making her the world’s richest woman. Daya Mata was Duke’s spiritual advisor and yoga instructor for many years. As part of the legal wrangle over Duke’s wealth after her death, Daya Mata provided a rare glimpse into her friendship with Duke in a deposition for a New York civil trial. Identifying herself as Faye Wright, she told of being at Duke’s bedside in her Benedict Canyon home the night before the heiress died. “I spoke to Doris and prayed over her,” Wright wrote. “Because of her sweet smile, I knew she was understanding my ministrations.”

    Compare what you have just read to this alternative account of her passing which is widely quoted on the internet. I cannot force myself to believe it, but the contrast between the two accounts is wickedly funny.

    “Just one example of thousands of Illuminati Grande Dames killed in ritual like this was the recent billionairess Doris Duke, who was ritually killed in 1993 on Halloween, also called All Hallows Eve, in Beverly Hills, CA area.

    The Illuminati method for killing a Grande Dame and passing her spiritual power on is done with reverence. No blood is to be spilt out of respect for the elderly woman who gives up her life willingly. At death, the last breath is inhaled by the replacement to transfer the power. There may be as many as 2,197 Grande Dames at such a coronation. The Grande Mothers (whose Systems are mistresses for Satan and hierarchy leaders) and the next rank, the Grande Dames, are often veiled in ritual and would wear robes with different colored lining. The different colors of linings show the different grades.

    A typical Grande Mother vestment or robe is a black satin & velvet dress with a draped neckline, and ritual symbols down the center of the robe. After someone like Doris Duke willingly gives her (their) life, her head is served on a silver platter at a banquet. For the deeper alters of a high level slave, this is part of their way of life, they are told it is their birthright and heritage….”"

    If you read the blog you will find many other things that I can confirm. There is mention of a swinger's group in San Diego, and my oldest brother went that route there. His long term primary cult leader is Roy Eugene Davis and not a direct member of SRF perhaps, but one of Yogananda's three Sensai appointees to spread the religion or Eastern thought. Another of those three sensai was Audley Allison who I saw at a Shrine Auditorium in Oklahoma City with a Cherokee mystic who declared after the event that I was the re-incarnation of a Dalai Red-capped Lama. I think the Dalai Lama is yellow capped but he probably is well versed in both disciplines and Gurdjieff probably took a longer time to get to that level of enlightenment, if he ever did. I was the only person to receive unscripted applause that evening. I was under 24 years old at that time and it was before the happenings I will include about Salt Lake City.

    My brother was also a member of Unity Church and his primary minister was outed for screwing most of the women who came to his church. This man was the one who performed services at my father's funeral. Needless to say you will find Spiritual Marriage in SRF is kin to Mormon Spiritual Wifery if you research that matter. They only touch on it. An employee of mine who was a Rosicrucian (higher than AMORC if I recall) was special and though I did not know why at that point I think I do now. I think her widow's brow or point is an indicator of strong spiritual blood (they do say) and probably that means her menstruum is in great demand. When she worked for me in LA she was given free run of Marcus Bach's home in a major tourist trap south of Irvine and Newport Beach, called Laguna Beach. Marcus Bach could be called an Illuminati and he was a founder or prime mover in the creation of Unity Church. When she worked in Salt Lake City and stayed with me - nothing sexual, she called Ezra Taft Benson and got an immediate meeting with the person who was second in command of that church and who later became it's Pope or whatever they call it. You might also want to look up his comment on the book None Dare Call it Conspiracy, as the US Dept. of Agriculture or Senate bigwhig thereof.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-20-2016 at 01:39 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    You can read the thread on Herman Hesse and how his influence lead to the "Make Love not War" culture of the Leary era in San Francisco which still reverberates or resonates there (I was last there almost 20 years ago - but I hear it is still present.). You can read about some of the people at Esalen I have crossed paths with in this greater purposeful LOVE akin to the Logos (see that thread too). But I am not a particularly successful person in making such relationships become what they might have been. In the most adept case I know I was lacking and fearful. This is not (again I repeat) about sex, or the MORE University types I met in California who took part of Bhakti and got connected in orgasmic bliss for 24 hours at a time. So, let me do some more quoting from other people I suspect had an influence from Gurdjieff. I am not going into the political influences on handlers of FDR like Baruch and Frank Lloyd Wright. I have covered that already. I should note as we continue, that I never did LSD except maybe in some cured weed one time. I am not into aids for spiritual consciousness but I do not reject those who do it wisely like Aldous Huxley. This book might provide a lot of insight into how the 60s and 70s music culture was impacted and through them you all have become under the spell of Gurdjieff and these seekers for truth.

    I arrived in California and Sacramento about 1972 and almost joined two communes during about two months there. I had read Hesse's great books and some Nietzsche as well as Morning of the Magicians so I knew more than the average hippie. Yoga of all varieties had been good for me, and almost no one I met was not interested in learning how great the human potential truly is. I loved it!!!! Top business people like the publisher of the Sacramento paper (maybe just the chief editor), and Dottie of the Cal State Education Dept. are part of my story, but enough about me.

    Pat Kilroy was one of them and Electra Records had a stable of others with later groups still engaging in all the drugs you know the likes of the Eagles and Doors were doing, not to mention Keith, who I also saw up close and personal in Las Vegas in a hotel ballroom. Pat was backed up by Country Joe and the Fish who we should all remember from their weird name.

    If you look long enough you can find free books which address almost any subject it seems. This book is another gem, and I hope it will stay clickable for you.

    ""Have you ever been in a riot?" asks a former marijuana dealer named Roger. "You could be standing there minding your own business and all of a sudden this thing, this feeling or magnetic force from the crowd, just engulfs you and you actually start participating in the riot. There's an opposite end of the spectrum. If everybody goes around with the love and brotherhood thing that they had in the Haight, when you walk into it you can be engulfed by it.

    "That's why so many people walked into that thing and within two hours had their heads so turned around they took off their wingtips and put 'em down on the sidewalk and walked off into some commune. That kind of thing happened hundreds of times a day. You got into that feeling and it was just like the whole world was revolving around this thing that was growing and you could see it grow."

    The Haight-Ashbury explosion of 1965-67 was perhaps the most written-about and least understood event of the sixties. The reporters who descended on the neighborhood in the summer of 1967 found it frightening or amusing, but in any case insane. They could not conceive how it happened because they didn't realize that it had a history—this thing that was growing and you could see it grow. Its history was what made it the apparent madhouse that it was. For some time the Haight had been shaped by events that came from all sorts of surprising quarters, but were obviously part of a single' event. These events seemed at the same time unexpected and inevitable—the essence of drama. Life in the Haight had the exaltation of a play. But people in the Haight weren't talking to reporters about history. Things had developed so far beyond anybody's expectations that the only honorable course was to take every idea to an extreme—anything less was a cowardly evasion of destiny. So it was their ideas that people in the Haight were telling reporters, ideas so wildly hopeful that they can scarcely be recalled without a pang of regret for lost hopes, mixed with a little embarrassment: "The paradox of a culture reincarnated by itself: that the 'white-eye' who once annihilated the buffalo must now, in action-reacted, be 'saved' from slaughtering himself by the Indian incarnate." "The unnatural state of the universe will not disappear until the last vestige of hierarchy is destroyed." "Mafia is a state of mind—drop it."

    When I began researching this history in 1975, I was afraid that a lot of the people involved in the Haight would be burnt out on the subject and reluctant to talk to a reporter about it, even a reporter like me who had been a Berkeley hippie with a number of friends in the Haight. A few years earlier they probably would have been, but now people were just starting to reassess the period, and nearly everybody was eager to talk. Of the half-dozen people who refused to talk to me, four were still associated with the hard core of original Diggers and refused on grounds that I would misrepresent them because I didn't share their ideology. There has been talk of an authorized Digger history. I hope they write it, and I hope this book of mine provides them, and anyone else who writes about the Haight Ashbury, with a reliable chronology. I am indebted to the following informants:
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-20-2016 at 02:55 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I hope you like the riot of LOVE. It is real and you do not have to do even one toke to know it!

    Continuing from the book, we have many names and musical performers you should know a few of, the same scene existed in Toronto where I was and had occasion to get a dance contest award from Ronny Hawkins and Gord Lightfoot at a bar called the Nickelodeon. I almost got a job at the Myna Bird doing cage dancing nude outside - but I chickened out. The Claremont Experiment introduced me to Yoga and Bucky Fuller became a guru for me.

    "Keith Abbott, Chester Anderson (com/co), Ray Anderson (Holy See Light Show), Tony Kaufman Anderson (groupie), Willard Bain (author of Informed Sources), Paree Bakhtir (Love Burgers), Teddy Bear, Larry Blackburn, Bobby Bowles (Peg 'n Awl Leathers), Stewart Brand (Prankster, Trips Festival), Ashleigh Brilliant (street poet), Lynn Brown (Mime Troupe, Digger), Joan Dierkes Carlisle, Luria Castel (Family Dog), Richard Cherney (House of Richard), John Cipollina (Quicksilver Messenger Service), Allen Cohen (Oracle), Vince Cresciman (Digger, I/Thou Coffee House), Faybeth Diamond, Bob Durso, Nancy Evans, Ernie Fosselius (Final Solution), David and Girl Freiberg (Quicksilver), Jerry Garcia (Grateful Dead), Patrick Gleeson (Happening House), Lou Gottlieb (Morning Star Ranch), Bill Graham (Fillmore Auditorium), Linda Gravenites, Carglin Green (The Righteous Rag), Luther Greene (Straight Theater), Bill Ham (Pine Street, light-show artist), Ellen Harmon (Red Dog Saloon, Family Dog), Father Leon Harris (All Saints Church), Chet Helms (Family Dog), Mendel Herscowitz (straight Haight Street merchant), Howard Hesseman (The Committee, KMPX disc jockey), Gary Hirsh (Country Joe), Tom Hobson, Richard Hodge (lawyer), Richard Hundgen, George Hunter (Charlatans), Roland Jacopetti (Open Theater, Morning Star), Gary Jackson (Matrix), Jorma Kaukonen (Jefferson Airplane), Al Kelly (Red Dog, posters), Ken Kesey (Prankster), Harvey Kornspan (Digger), Mary Anne Kramer, Paul Krassner, Peter Krug (Wild Colors), Chandler Laughlin (Red Dog, KMPX), Seymour Locks (light-show inventor), Si Lowinsky (Print Mint), Tom Mazzolini (music archivist), Michael McClure, Don McCoy (Rancho Olompali), Walter Medeiros (poster archivist), Barry Melton (Country Joe), Mervyn Millar, Larry Miller (KMPX), Victor and Gail Moscoso (posters), Moe Moskowitz, Stanley Mouse (posters), Ron Nagel (Mystery Trend), Patt Nathe (Blue Unicorn), Richie Olsen (Charlatans), Steve Porterfield (Family Dog), Norwood Pratt (Love Conspiracy), Dean and Lee Quarnstrom (Pranksters), Cindy Reade (Digger), Greg Reisner, Bill and Hillel Resner (Straight Theater), Roger the Dealer, Elias Romero (light show), Jon Sagen, Max Scherr {Barb), Rock Scully (Grateful Dead), Jerry Sealund (Far Fetched Foods), Ramon Sender (Tape Center, Trips Festival, Morning Star), Greg Shaw, Edmund Shea, Gretchen Sherman, Bob Simmons, Dr. David Smith (Free Clinic), Jeff Stallard, Rob Sutherland (All Saints Digger), Nathan Terre, Ron Thelin (Psychedelic Shop), Bill Thompson (Jefferson Airplane), Hunter S. Thompson, Jack Towie (Family Dog), Teresa Tudury (All Night Apothecary), Hall Van Vlack (Hearth Coffee Shop), Ben Van Meter (light show), Bill Wheeler (Wheeler's Ranch), Wes Wilson (posters), Leonard Wolfe (Happening House), Don Works (Red Dog). Needless to say, their opinions are not necessarily those expressed in this book, and I alone am responsible for any errors. I am more particularly indebted to the following people, who gave me access to their files: Chester Anderson, Howard Hesseman, Tom Mazzolini, Gary Jackson and Jann Wenner. Andersen's donation of a nearly complete file of com/co output from January to July 1967 was invaluable. The books that proved useful to me were Ralph J. Gleason's The Jefferson Airplane and the San Francisco Sound, which contains the first attempt to tell the early history of the Haight; Tom Wolfe's The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, about the Merry Pranksters; We Are the People Our Parents Warned Us Against, Nicholas Von Hoff man's attempt to understand the scene as of early summer 1967, two books of interviews, Voices from the Love Generation, by Leonard Wolfe, and Garcia, by Jann Wenner and Charles Reich; and Cooptation: The Story of a Radio Station, an academic thesis by Susan Krieger on KMPX/KSAN. Scenes, a sociology of the hippie and surfer movements by John Irwin, greatly helped me clarify my thinking about the dramaturgical elements of life in the Haight. The best contemporary journalism on the Haight was Jeff Jassen's weekly report in the Berkeley Barb, but there was also useful coverage in the San Francisco Chronicle and the Oracle.

    Much light is cast on the mood and thinking of the time by Emmett Grogan's Ringolevio: A Life Played for Keeps and Marco Vassi's The Stoned Apocalypse, although the historical value of both books is limited by their authors' grandiose self-images. Only a handful of straightforward novels have come from the psychedelic movement, the best being Willard Bain's head-twisting Informed Sources, Billy Craddock's Be Not Content, which parodies the unspoken conclusion of Leary's "tune in, turn on, drop out" mantra—"freak out, fuck up, crawl back"; and the little-known Tripper, by Jocelyn (Exposition Press, 1972), which exquisitely portrays the psychedelic life in all its anguish and aimless gorgeousness."

  6. #6
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    Jan 2015
    In the thread on Firewalkers we see Joseph Campbell communicating with Gerald Heard (A Gurdjieffian) and Aldous Huxley who attended some meetings of Ouspensky and probably researched Gurdjieff as far as I have if not more. This official site of Gurdjieffians will interest any person seeking knowledge of what goes on in the world, I hope.

    You might recall I have said Bernard Baruch and Frank Lloyd Wright actually ran (a occult word and it is what Colonel House did to Woodrow Wilson - see thread on the MOST important person of the 20th Century) Franklin Roosevelt. It is even more strong a connection than I knew. Wright left all his money to the Gurdjieff Foundation. I especially like how they say Wright was never Gurdjieff's pupil in the conventional sense. That means something to me. It means Wright was not one of the 21 degrees of idiots Gurdjieff classed people in. It means his wife also had the benefit of another master. The name of their estate is a 'tell' and I have a thread on Taliesin here. I cannot cut and paste from the site so you must read the part on Wright, but also check out George James to get more insight about ecological or nature and the pentagon dodecahedron we have covered so often in threads here.

    As I have said in my thoughts about TIME there is a connection with the Earth Energy Grid and you should read what Paul Anderson says about it in this site. Anderson was made the top dog in the Gurdjieff groups and eventually did his own group with special interest in Beelzebub's Tales. When I read it and Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain in the middle 70s I bought a paper on Time from the Library of Congress by Dr. Kozyrev. I tried to penetrate Ouspensky and Claude Bragdon who showed promise of adding to my dimensional theories but either they were too far ahead of me or I had grown in other directions.

    I suspect George James and Fuller met and discussed many things but I cannot find evidence to that suspicion other than this site.

    I posted a thread here recently showing Tesla reading Boscovich. I am certain I can answer the question posed on about the connection between Tesla and Gurdjieff better than they do. I see Tesla as growing right alongside Gurdjieff and his changes in philosophy from outside interferences to Vivekananda are in line with what I say. I will continue to seek proof they met, and I remind you Tesla's kinfolk were also 'speakers' just like Gurdjieff.

    It appears there is proof of what I suspected with Tesla and Gurdjieff. In fact it is far too much to delve into in one day, but I think it will cover Montauk and what I wrote in Chichen Itza: TIME. Thunderbolts has good stuff too. This is all more suitably addressed elsewhere.

    Full text of "William Lyne Occult Science Dictatorship Nikola ...

    They also purged the ether physics through which Tesla had realized his .... Boscovich and Michell had arrived at their Relativist Theory by reflecting on Baxter's doctrine of ...... Though Gurdjieff was apparently irresponsible when it came to

    Getting back to the theme of this thread I searched for a connection between Hermann Hesse and Gurdjieff to 'love' and I found a cogent comparison of Krishnamurti and Gurdjieff. I love it when so many threads come crashing together like this. Do not overlook the thread on Jung and Sri Aurobindo either.

    "In this century there have been two very important persons Gurdjieff and Krishnamurti. They are the types. Krishnamurti goes on insisting everybody has to be on his own. Alone one has to seek and alone one has to reach. And Gurdjieff insisted that schoolwork is needed - alone you will never be able to escape out of the prison. All the prisoners have to come together to fight with the forces which are guarding, which have made the prison. And all the prisoners have to get together to find ways and means and methods - and they need somebody's support who is outside the prison. Otherwise they will not find the way; they will not find how to get out. Somebody who was in the prison and has somehow reached out, his help is needed that is the Master.

    Who is right? Krishnamurti's followers won't listen to Gurdjieff, Gurdjieff's followers won't listen to Krishnamurti, and the followers go on thinking that the other is wrong. But I tell you, both are right because humanity has two types.

    And none is better. Don't try to evaluate. Somebody is a woman and somebody is a man - nobody is higher and nobody is lower; different types of biology. Somebody is who can find alone and somebody is who needs help - nobody is higher and nobody is lower; different types of spirituality.

    The person who cannot find alone is the person for whom surrender will be the path, love will be the path, devotion will be the path, trust will be the path. Don't think that trust is easy. It is as difficult as to follow on your own, sometimes even more difficult. And there are people who will follow alone."

    This site has drop down areas which focus more directly on Gurdjieff and a few other Masters. I am glad to see Alan Watts in that circle but not fond of seeing Osho there.

    And what better way to wrap up this day's search for truth and real LOVE than what follows?

    "At 20, Thurman married 32-year-old Gary Oldman and at 22 divorced him. Neither of them have spoken publicly of their marriage or divorce, beyond a wistful comment Oldman let slip on a talk show some years later: "You try living with an angel." Thurman was later married to Hawke, her co-star in Gattaca, but their marriage ended after his reported dalliances an unknown actress. Since then she has dated hotel magnate Andre Balazs.

    Uma's father, Robert Thurman, was expelled from Phillips Exeter Academy when he tried, without success, to enlist for Fidel Castro's Cuban revolution. Unable to fight, he instead became the first Westerner ordained as a Tibetan monk. He has written and translated numerous books on Buddhism, has often entertained the Dalai Lama, and taught Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies at Columbia University.

    Her mother, Nena von Schlebrugge, was a Mexican-born Swedish supermodel of the 1960s who later became a New York psychotherapist. She was friends with Salvador Dali, who introduced her to drug guru Timothy Leary, whom she married on camera in a bizarre documentary, You're Nobody Until Somebody Loves You. Less than two years later, though, Schlebrugge left Leary for Robert Thurman, and the jilted Leary became Uma Thurman's godfather."

    I am sure I would love Robert Thurman and I might end up in a different Cuba soon if things do not work out in the land my most adept lady lived and learned so much in, before I met her. We would all agree that talking to other people who have fixed opinions and who have no interest in learning is more disturbing to intellectuals than it is to those who never attempted to think, and just look for 'easy answers' or whatever works (Makes money or gains sexual advantage). Maybe there are some people who honestly believe they speak to g_d - it was not long ago Americans elected someone who said he got 'direction from a higher authority'. I am not sure that he was just appealing to his fundamentalist demographic because he was holding a book upside down on TV when 9-11 was in progress. My most adept friend who could have taught me so much more about LOVE looked like Helen Hunt and is the same age as Uma. I am enamoured and amazed with Uma, and look forward to seeing her age on screen for the remainder of my physical existence.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-20-2016 at 05:39 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I hope I do not have to explain how love has everything to do with IT, anymore. So, now we move to a discourse of an imaginary sort in the hereafter, by someone other than myself (for a change).

    The 1982 book by a Boston College (not my favorite Catholic institution) Professor has made a good argument that being Christian pays or at least it did for the Watergate criminal Chuck Colson and C. S. Lewis who converted from atheism. Children getting fed lies or people listening to political talking-heads are not what society should value. I could argue "who cares" if that is how the world values people at present?

    "The convergence intrigued Boston College philosopher and theologian Peter Kreeft, who made the three 20th century giants the center of his 1982 book “Between Heaven and Hell: A Dialog Somewhere Beyond Death with John F. Kennedy, C. S. Lewis, & Aldous Huxley.”

    “It’s funny that divine providence seems to arrange things that way,” he told WND in an interview Friday. “Mother Theresa died on the same day as Princess Diana, and her death was also overshadowed by a secular event.” {Mother Teresa has since been proven to be a criminal who operated concentration camp type hospitals and fleeced the world of billions of bucks. She's being made a Saint.}

    Noting that the men each represented one of the three major worldviews of the modern era, Kreeft imagined what might have happened if they had had a conversation with each other about the big questions of life moments after they left this world.

    Putting his imagination to work along with his academic experience, he portrays Lewis as a Christian theist, Kennedy as a modern humanist and Huxley as an Eastern pantheist in a Socratic discussion that centers on what he calls “the Great Conversation” about ultimate reality that has been going on for centuries.

    While Kennedy inspired a generation of social and political activists {Yes, and like his father was a misogynist and abuser although his abuse was less harmful and eugenically involved. He was the true druggie - not Huxley. But do listen to JFKs speech about secret societies which did not spill all the beans about his Merovingian family.}, .. Huxley, though best known for his dystopian novel, influenced a generation of intellectuals who sought enlightenment through psychedelic drugs. {What dogmatic brilliance!}

    Half a century after that history-altering day, however, Kreeft believes it’s clear whose life, among the three, has been the most consequential.

    “From heaven’s point of view, Lewis has had more impact,” Kreeft told WND.

    Growing influence

    Lewis, who taught at both Oxford University and Cambridge University, is best known for his fictional classics “The Chronicles of Narnia” and “The Screwtape Letters” along with his non-fiction “Mere Christianity,” the book that former Nixon aide Charles Colson cited as influential in his famous conversion.

    Lewis’ influence only seems to grow as new generations are introduced to his work, making him more popular today than he was in his lifetime.

    “He possessed a unique ability to make difficult ideas clear and to bridge a gap between specialists and generalists and intellectuals and ordinary people,” Kreeft said of Lewis, who at one time regarded himself as an atheist before his conversion to Christianity.

    Along with his acclaim as a literary scholar – Lewis was a member of the informal discussion group of Oxford dons called the “Inklings” with “Lord of the Rings” author J.R.R. Tolkien {Someone plagiarized someone} – he remains in the conversation of Protestants and Roman Catholics alike.

    Kreeft, a Roman Catholic who also teaches philosophy at the evangelical Protestant liberal arts The King’s College in New York City, said Lewis placed himself in the middle of the theological “battlefield,” where he centered on the essential questions.

    Lewis asked, said Kreeft: “Is Christianity a true supernatural religion, or is it just a myth. Is Jesus really divine or is he just a good guy? Did he really rise from the dead, or is that just a nice fairy tale?

    The question Lewis posed about Jesus, Kreeft told WND, “divides people radically, and it’s a life-changing question.”

    That question and related issues are at the heart of Kreeft’s fictional discussion between Lewis, Kennedy and Huxley.

    Asked if there is current interest in his book, he told WND there’s a “move among certain people in Hollywood to make a movie of it.”

    The rights to it have been bought, he said, ....

    “I don’t think it’s very cinematic, but who knows?” he said...

    Read more at"

    Another segment of the cult called Christian or Judeo/Christian/Islamic which in fact is all about Empire and elite enslaving offers us this insight to what FREEDOM is. I think the truth of LOVE and Divine Providence can only be experienced by free people aspiring to make g-d better through good acts. (See John 10:34 or various Nag Hammadi scrolls etc.) I remind those who have seen the movie Braveheart what his last word is.

    During the Messianic Era the truths of the Torah will be as self-evident as the laws of gravity and mathematics. “I am G-d; I called you for the purpose of righteousness… and I made you a Covenant people, to be a light to the nations.” Isaiah 42:6 The residents of Netzarim were the last Israelis to be evicted on August 22, 2005 by the Israel Defense Forces during Israel's unilateral disengagement plan from the Gaza Strip... Hurricane Katrina formed August 23, 2005 -

    See more at:

    Excuse me while I puke up my soul and weep for the Palestinians under the thumb of zealous ignorance, even though they too impose an ignorance often just as vile and immoral. Do not overlook how they claim g-d wrought a Hurricane upon the Earth for the act of returning land to those it was stolen from.

    In what follows from the above Rabbinical source we have lies and weasel words combined with out of context quotes from great free-thinkers including Huxley and Jefferson who wrote a Good Bible (see thread here). It demonstrates how easy it is to have your sheep answer a poll in order to prove you are not what you are - power-hungry despots.

    "by Rabbi Yaakov Menken

    "And G-d said to Moshe, 'go to Pharoah, and say to him, "thus says G-d 'LET MY PEOPLE GO...'"'" [Exodus 7:26]

    This is, of course, one of the most famous quotes in the Bible.

    It is also one of the most common half-quotes therein.

    Verse 7:26 does not, in fact, conclude "let My people go," but "let My people go, and they will serve Me." This, even though Passover is the Festival of Freedom. What are we free to do? To serve G-d! And thus we come upon an entirely different understanding of freedom than the view of modern Western thought.

    To be "free," as commonly understood, is to be free to do whatever one wishes to do. As long as you do not harm another person -- thereby interfering with his or her freedom -- you can do basically whatever you want. There are no borders, no limitations.

    According to this view, of course, even a basic moral code -- something which claims to dictate that certain behaviors are "wrong" whether or not they harm anyone -- is an obstruction to freedom. For better or for worse, a moral code imposes borders and limitations upon an individual. This gives people a profound motivation to dismiss moral systems, and the underlying First Cause of a moral system. Or, as the scientist Aldous Huxley ("Brave New World") stated candidly in "Confessions of a Professional Free-Thinker," in 1966:

    I had reasons not to want the world to have meaning, and as a result I assumed the world had no meaning, and I was readily able to find satisfactory grounds for this assumption... For me, as it undoubtedly was for most of my generation, the philosophy of meaninglessness was an instrument of liberation from a certain moral system. We were opposed to morality because it interfered with our freedom.
    If even a basic moral system is a limitation on freedom, then it follows immediately and logically that a system such as that Commanded by the Torah, with 613 mandatory and prohibited acts, with countless restrictions and sub-restrictions upon behavior, consumption of foods, sexual activity -- "you name it, Judaism wants to control it" -- is repressive, restrictive, limiting. And this is the vision of Judaism which many of us have.

    The Torah itself is uncompromising. Pesach is called "the time of our liberation," not "the time of exchanging one master for Another." This is not "basically free, but with other limitations." No -- the Torah calls all these laws and restrictions "freedom," and even has the chutzpah to claim that what the world calls freedom -- that is limited. As Rabbi Yehoshuah ben Levi says in the Chapters of the Fathers 62, "there is no free man like the one who is involved with the study of Torah."

    In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote that we have rights, such as the famous "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." If we view this as an ascension from the most basic right (to life), to the ultimate towards which we all strive, if Liberty is supposed to make it possible for us to be happy, than the Torah's "freedom" seems to serve the purpose very well. Those who visit an active observant Jewish community do not find a restricted, shackled people, but one where sharing, generosity, and happiness are the order of the day. There was actually a Los Angeles Times survey that discovered that residents of religious communities were significantly more likely to describe themselves as "happy."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-20-2016 at 06:42 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    It is possible that I have made a major mistake in attributing less to Richard Bach and more to Marcus Bach by saying the latter fathered the former. I also might be wrong about Marcus having much to do with Unity Church although I see he was part of the Kansas City religious scene as it evolved. I also get waylaid at a further look into his biography by Brigham Young University which of course is connected with my Mormon story. In these things it gets especially interesting to see his was a Rockefeller Fellow and Ezra Taft Benson was a commenter on the None Dare Call it Conspiracy book which the Rockefeller people followed and destroyed copies of for may years (one went missing in my car's back seat when I left it alone for an hour). I know there is disagreement between two branches of the Mormons but I would not think it is this involved. I will continue to try to see these connections other than Unity, and Richard's book ONE or his book with the sub-title Messiah Handbook. All excellent books in the genre of having a seagull sit on your typewriter when you obviously have studied spirituality for a long time.

    "Success, or failure, very often arrives on wings that seem mysterious to us" Marcus Bach

    Marcus Bach was born in Sauk City, Wisconsin. He trained for the ordained ministry at Mission House College and seminary in Plymouth, Wisconsin. After a pastorate in Kansas City, Missouri, Marcus Bach returned to school to pursue play writing . He received his M.A. (1937) and Ph.D. (1942) from the University of Iowa's prestigious interfaith School of Religion. There he taught about little known religious sects and also presented the course in radio.

    Although he always continued to write and publish, in 1961, he resigned from the School of Religion to pursue lecturing and writing full time. He authored twenty-seven books, including Major Religions of the World, Had you Been Born in Another Faith, The Unity Way, The World of Serendipity, and The Power of Total Living. At one point in his life, Dr. Bach set out to meet the five people of his time whom he felt best exemplified the teachings of Jesus Christ in their lives. He travelled 40,000 miles in pursuit of this aim, interviewing Helen Keller, Pope Pius XII, Albert Schweitzer,Therese Neumann, and Shoghi Effendi.

    Dr. Bach was founder and director of "The Fellowship for Spiritual Understanding." He has contributed to the Encyclopedia Americana, Theatre Arts, the Reader's Digest, and many other periodicals. and was director of special projects for SFF. The Rockefeller Foundation granted him a fellowship in “research and creative writing” from 1934-36

    Marcus Bach is recognized as a leading authority on the world's religions and inter-cultural relations. Among his currently popular works are The World of Serendipity, The Power of Perception and the metaphysical allegory, I, Monty."

    One thing for certain - he was involved with the founders of the Unity Church although it does not make that easy to see. If you look at the similar authors section you will see James Freeman and others. I suppose they do not want the connections that would involve Lucis Trust (Luciferians) and Blavatsky who is so involved with Bulwer-Lytton and many other cults including Nazis (see book recently posted here by Hamad Subani confirming my work). Do not assume I am averse to any of these attempts to make a decent religion and world come to fruition, I just do not like lies and deceit.

    You will find people at crossroads who say Huxley and Krishnamurti are colleagues of Annie Besant. Huxley did investigate Theosophy but I would not call him a colleague - and surely J. Krishnamurti was more than a mere colleague. They were both friends of Joseph Campbell and I do not mind Esalen with government funding getting involved in using New Age beliefs to enhance the potential for a better society. I do warn that it could turn out to be a similar things to what has always happened in religious circles however. When I see a Tibetan Master in the line of Gurdjieff involved in this stuff - I hope he does not agree we are mostly idiots, even though we do not exhibit our potential Krishnamurti addresses.

    I regard this as more mercenary abuse in the line of Elizabeth Claire Prophet (Profit) and the whole St. Germain rip off.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-20-2016 at 07:32 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    The title of the book mentioned earlier in this thread dealing with the Sacred and Profane of life and esoterics is an important differentiation we do not teach our children. In Rebel Without a Cause starring James Dean you see the gritty point of departure when a child realizes his parents have no integrity. I suppose when people who watched it and got the message of the rebellion he expressed grew up they just decided it was a stupid movie with unrealistic premises that cannot be achieved. The same message is faced in many kid's lives but especially when a young woman gets pregnant and the parents figure she was making her own bed when she did what she did and got off the hook for having to send her to "Read English" at Oxford or some hoity-toity similar place where all she reasonably could be expecting to achieve is a marriage with a better class or money. The movie An Education from about 2007 with Carey Mulligan playing a sixteen going on seventeen ingénue deservedly gets four stars for showing the 'fun' decisions such a young lady can be faced with. How poorly the headmistress (Emma Thompson) argues for why there is a need for education is where we need to really learn about Sacred things and not teach for Profane things and ethics which religions have inculcated in our society.

    The headmistress is disgusted (and disgusting) when she hears her young charge is engaged to a Jew. She says "They killed our Savior". That movie is set in the 60s and it was still saying what the Head of the House Un-American Activities Committee said as they drove many Jews to death and destruction over their support for Communist Russia which the US Government told them to do during the war. The young girl makes a great retort and says the Savior was a Jew. The headmistress says; "I suppose he told you that!" The girl also made a good point about how useless Latin was and that being boring and working to become more boring was not of interest to her. She told the headmistress she needed to explain why there was a need for education. And that is still true after you get you degree at Oxford I am here to tell you. If those two movies were shown in schools and discussed I think a great deal more growth might occur. If a person does not start to enjoy learning what use is there in going on about getting a degree, especially now when robots will do all so many jobs better than mere educated 'idiots' have been doing. Gurdjieff is right to call most people 'idiots'.

    It shows how relieved the father is to see her get cared for by a rich but older man of the Jewish religion. It shows what I told a person very early in the show that would probably be the end result. The older man was married. In the end we see the young girl lying to a young man at Oxford when she is learning to "Read English" (which very few people really ever learn). She did not learn how profane a lie is. The priests and rabbis are not uneducated boors. They know the stuff their congregations eat up is Pablum and worse. I have quoted better people than me saying that is a fact - Jefferson, Mencken and Ingersoll to name a couple. What we need is a 'Conspiracy of Love"! That is what Teilhard de Chardin calls for and he makes excellent sense which even the Catholic Church was inclined to accept in Vatican II which is the era of these movies.

    In the 60s we also heard a phrase almost as popular as Hesse's attributed "Make Love Not War"! This was another Teilhardism "We are spiritual beings having a brief illusory physical experience." We appear not to have learned it. It was not new when Plato said the same things after listening to Socrates in the Pythagorean Druidic line of thought either. We do need to learn it some day, soon! But listening to our political exchanges leaves me fearful and nearly hopeless. The power of every person with a deranged mind now includes dirty bombs and viral agents of mass destruction. The Hadith which says you can get 72 virgins for terrible acts is not new but it is more horrific because of the extent or lack of education. I say it is because we educate our children and do not listen to them about what really is right - as these movies show. I am getting out of Dodge very soon - I have 'paid at the office' for decades and delivered the truth as well as the bacon. What are YOU DOing? Are you eating excrement and living in the dark like mushrooms love to do? Or are you better than the Ostrich with his head in the sand? Your karma awaits, I look forward to mine.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-20-2016 at 11:16 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Plato would say eros or love is the pursuit of the greatest wisdom and in that regard if the Logos is part of the dimensional energy banks called Akashic and other names he also was like Heraclitus or following his lead. I, of course, think it is far earlier knowledge which the books and script on stone has not survived or in Verbal Tradition has degraded. But it is there in Bhakti and many sutras to be certain.

    "Plato used storytelling {The Troubadours and Bards again. The teaching of Abaris the Druid for Pythagoras is evident here.}and literature to illustrate points about the psyche, as did Homer. In his story of the charioteer in Phaedrus, Plato likened the human being to a chariot team.

    "[As part of the team] there is a powerful, unrully horse intent on having its own way at all costs (appetite). The other horse is a thoroughbred, spirited but manageable (spirit). On catching sight of his beloved, the charioteer (reason) attempts with some difficulty to direct the two horses toward the goal, which he alone (not they) can comprehend." (Watson, p.62)

    This is an illustration of Plato's theory about conflict based on reason, emotion and drive.

    Plato also made early contributions to motivational psychology with his delineation of the drive characteristics of the psyche--that drives have a striving toward attainment of a goal and an affective coloring of pleasure and pain.

    In Plato's Symposium, he presents a dialogue on the meaning of Eros or love, in which each participant offers their interpretations. He discusses 2 kinds of love: profane and sacred. The first is concerned with the body and the second with the psyche, mind and character. Physical sexual desire is not merely concerned with sex, but a masked deisre for parenthood, an attempt to perpetuate oneself. Plato believed this passion for physical parenthood was the most rudimentary fruition of the good and the eternal. He also believed that only higher love could lead to happiness. For Plato, the love of wisdom is the highest form of love. Love can be equated with life force, as it is akin to the biological will to live and the life energy.

    Many scholars have used Plato's notions to draw conclusions about human nature. Freud's notions about the personality being dependent on the id, ego and superego are similar to Plato's 3 aspects of the psyche. Carl Jung's notions about the libido and its general nonspecialized drive character seem to stem from the early drive theories of Plato. Evolutionary psychologists discuss humans' need to reproduce copies of themselves and their gene pool. In the psychology of emotion and social psychology, psychologists have studied and outlined the different forms of love. Personality psychologists define the core form of energy residing in man, most frequently, as "psychic energy." The field of energy medicine discusses the relationship of energy centers in the body to the mental state and nature of humans."

    Teilhardism is more humanistic and spiritual than almost any other religious perspective (IMHO). I think he is right about his omega point having synchronicity with Yeshua's studies.

    I like to re-energize myself with an occasional retrospective of the fight waged by Teilhard de Chardin. In the following we have a fool attacking a humanistic genius - and why does that happen?

    "By: Dr. J. P. Hubert

    Moral Relativism and Utilitarianism are the reigning (immoral) philosophies in the developed West. Most of our public policy dilemmas are either directly or indirectly related to the widespread acceptance of these post-Enlightenment constructs. Some of the blame for our current predicament can be laid at the feet of Fr. Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit Priest who attempted to institute a “New Religion” by combining Darwinian evolution with his unorthodox view of Theism.

    As Wolfgang Smith has written, Teilhard de Chardin intended to start a New Religion.[1] He made it quite clear on several occasions. In a letter to Leontine Zanta he wrote: “As you already know, what dominates my interest and my preoccupations is the effort to establish in myself and to spread around a new religion (you may call it a better Christianity) in which the personal God ceases to be the great Neolithic proprietor of former times, in order to become the soul of the world; our religious and cultural stage calls for this.”[2] Dietrich von Hildebrand and Wolfgang Smith trace much of the heterodoxy of the second Vatican Conciliar process to the circulation of Teilhardian conceptions of science[3] (especially with respect to biological evolution) and derivatively, Teilhard’s view of religion. Teilhard seems to have made the transformism[4] of biological evolution palatable to certain Catholic Theologians who wished to embrace what they perceived as modern evolutionary science. Traditionally, the entire notion had been thought heretical particularly as concerned the biological evolution of human beings. Through his New Religion, Teilhard gave a patina of legitimacy to the entire concept of evolution by theorizing the existence of “point Omega” which ultimately he identified with Jesus Christ.

    It appears that many Catholic Theologians were duped by failing to differentiate the actual facts of biological science from the prevailing naturalistic philosophy (metaphysical naturalism) which as a result of the assertions of leading biologists, was virtually inseparable from it.[5] This made them “ripe” for Teilhard’s proposed incorporation of Evolution into “Christianity.” Teilhard’s New Religion was therefore very much on the minds of some of the participants of the Council, some explicitly and some only implicitly. One might say that the “flavor” was in the air. Unfortunately, no systematic refutation of Teilhard’s theory was available in 1962 prior to the commencing of Vatican II. Wolfgang Smith’s work which accomplished same became available only in 1988.

    In a sense then, when Pope John XXIII called for “aggiornamento”, (whether recognized at the time or not), not only was he opening the windows of the Traditional Catholic Church to the world but to what Teilhard had been promulgating as the New Religion as well. It is the latter effect that has produced the post-Conciliar disaster’s with which most Catholics are all too familiar. Unfortunately, Teilhard’s heretical New Religion has been embraced either in part or in whole by several generations of post-conciliar Catholics given that Teilhard’s spurious notions have never been formally repudiated.[6] Teilhardism effectively destroyed the Creation tenet of orthodox Catholicism, the Fall from Grace and with it the concept of Original Sin, the atoning death of Christ on the Cross and thereby the entire Salvation/Redemption tenet based as it is on Christ’s crucifixion and literal bodily resurrection."

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