Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: The Gracchi and Good Governance

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,796

    The Gracchi and Good Governance

    Like Asoka or Ashoka who shortly before the Gracchi ran what I consider to be an exemplary government for the people of his land after having done his time conquering some unruly elements (who he treated with respect and fairness) we have the brief reign of others who went against the norm of Empire.

    In the annals of Rome we hear a great deal about many men who did so well in war and even a decent Emperor with some spiritual knowledge (Marcus Aurelias). Of course we also hear about a lot of back-stabbing corrupt immoral behaviour from the likes of Nero and Caligula. But do you know about Cornelia whose magnanimous presence was second to none and whose children were also decent people. I place this on the site because it is an important example of good governance from decent people. A rare thing that is indeed, since Empire began. It is no easy matter to see their influence in what follows and what lead to great men like Seneca who was an inspiration for Thomas Jefferson. The story is flattering to the mores and beliefs of the people in their era.

    "They were sons of Tiberius Gracchus, who, although he had been censor at Rome, twice consul, and had celebrated two triumphs, derived his more illustrious dignity from his virtue. 2 Therefore, after the death1 of the Scipio who conquered Hannibal, although Tiberius had not been his friend, but actually at variance with him, he was judged worthy to take Scipio's daughter Cornelia in marriage. We are told, moreover, that he once caught a pair of serpents on his bed, and that the soothsayers, after considering the prodigy, forbade him to kill both serpents or to let both go, but to decide the fate of one or the other of them, declaring also that the male serpent, if killed, would bring death to Tiberius, and the female, to Cornelia. 3 Tiberius, accordingly, who loved his wife, and thought that since she was still young and he was older it was more fitting that he should die, killed the male serpent, but let the female go. A short time afterwards, as the story goes, he died leaving Cornelia with twelve children by him.

    4 Cornelia took charge of the children and of the estate, and showed herself so discreet, so good a mother, and so magnanimous, that Tiberius was thought to have been made no bad decision when he elected to die instead of such a woman. For when Ptolemy3 the king offered to share his crown with her and sought her hand in marriage, she refused him, and remained a widow. 5 In this state she lost most of her children, but three survived; one daughter, who married Scipio the younger, and two sons, Tiberius and Caius, whose lives I now relate. These sons Cornelia reared with such scrupulous care that although confessedly no other Romans were so well endowed by nature, they were thought to owe their virtues more to education than to nature."



    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...Gracchus*.html

    This review of their lives gives us what really set them apart from most leaders. They died championing the rights of the common people!

    "Cornelia was certainly one of the most remarkable women of any period in Roman history. She was born in the late Republic, a time when the Roman matrona had evolved from the politically powerful Hellenistic princesses, expanding cultural opportunities for women. As a daughter of a hero, wife of an aristocrat, mother of the champions of the Roman people, Cornelia was admired for her virtue, fidelity, and especially for her intelligence. She moved in circles that were open only to the most respected women in Rome. It is clear, however, that, while her family connections were strong, her own abilities won the admiration and confidence of important Romans. She was sought out for advice and conversation long after the death of her husband and sons and later writers portrayed her as the ideal Roman matron.


    C Plutarch, a Greek historian of the first century CE, stated that the marriage was one of mutual love derived from the union of two of the most virtuous individuals in Rome. However, Polybius, a Greek historian of the second century BCE, states the betrothal of Cornelia to the much older Tiberius Gracchus occurred after her father's death and was arranged by close relatives. With him she bore twelve children, yet only three lived to adulthood, Sempronia, Tiberius, and Gaius. Tiberius was most likely born in 163 BCE, with Gaius following nine years later. Sempronia was probably older. Cornelia's husband, Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus died in 154-153 BCE, leaving her to raise her daughter and two sons on her own, with Tiberius being around the age of nine and Gaius being an infant. She supervised their education and filled them with the culture and refinement that she herself had absorbed in her parent's home. Sempronia was already the wife of Scipio Aemilianus when she was seventeen year old and Tiberius (the son) was served under her husband's command in Africa.

    Soon after the death of her husband, the Egyptian monarch Ptolemy VIII Physcon proposed to her and she outright refused him to remain faithful to the memory of her husband. She was praised for her devotion to her household and the education of her children. Cicero details how carefully she sought out the finest Greek tutors, such as the famous rhetorician Diophanes of Mytilene and the Stoic Blossius of Cumae. He further states that her children were nourished more by her conversation than her breast. At a time when other women of her age were displaying their various ornamentation, Cornelia declared that her sons were her most precious jewels.

    It would be difficult to separate Tiberius' short and dramatic political career entirely from his mother's influence. From childhood, she had groomed him for success, and it is doubtful Tiberius considered her any less a political ally and advisor. Her reputation was able to survive rumors that she assisted her daughter in the murder of Scipio Aemilianus because he opposed the legislation of Tiberius. Following the assassination that cut short Tiberius' promising career, Cornelia did not let her son's memory fade away. She was a major factor in fashioning his subsequent image as a martyr for the popular cause, which was gaining momentum in Rome, largely because of Tiberius' land reform program.

    Her influence on her younger son Gaius, who, as tribune in 123 BCE, lionized his brother's efforts and became leader of the popular movement, must have been just as strong. In one of her letters she begs Gaius not to employ the same methods of radical reform as did his brother."


    http://hannibalbarca.webspace.virgin...-africanus.htm

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,796
    In the movie Gladiator with Russell Crowe we see how Marcus Aurelius wanted him as the next leader of Rome and we see how family infighting and other stupidity was all the rage. There are those who say Marcus was the last of the five good Emperors but I see no particular reason to include Hadrian even though he did try to get the best man for the job. Was Crowe's character still suffering the effects of a battle over land which cost him his beloved wife? The movie flashbacks confuse me now. Did you know a Christian bishop of the second Century AD owned Gladiators when the forum entertainment included Christians. You would not be surprised if you knew people sold out all the time to Rome for money and power - thus we got the Roman cult some think is Christianity today.

    It is hard for us to imagine the issues of land reform which had plagued Rome since the Etrurians were ousted by assistance from Brutti in Britain coming to the aid of their cousins who knew no one could own God (nature or land). We have been told a lie even though no one really believes the stories of Romulus and Remus or any other myths - nonetheless people still act and write as if the true history is simply not available since the nuraghi on nearby Sardinia were built as Medieval castles (See Atlas of Archaeology among other sources taking it back before the great woman Dido founded Carthage at the end of the Phoenician interests in being in charge of governments). Some do grasp the importance of the Battle of Alalia and some do see the Trojan War participants came to Italy and founded Sybaris and Etruria (see thread). It is not easy to connect the dots if you are told all the answers for a course include only the books and accounts of the people in that region and era. Historians are accessing more scientific sources like Linguistics and archaeology but it is only in the last decade or two that DNA began to rip off the scales of blindness ego and Empire has left us with.

    "Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius was born on April 26, 121, in Rome, Italy. Known for his philosophical interests, Aurelius was one of the most respected emperors in Roman history. He was born into a wealthy and politically prominent family. Growing up, Aurelius was a dedicated student, learning Latin and Greek. But his greatest intellectual interest was Stoicism, a philosophy that emphasized fate, reason and self-restraint. Discourses, written by a former slave and Stoic philosopher Epictetus, had a great deal of influence over Marcus Aurelius. His serious and hard-working nature was even noticed by Emperor Hadrian.

    After his earlier choice for a successor died, Hadrian adopted Titus Aurelius Antoninus (who would be known as Emperor Pius Antonius) to succeed him as an emperor. Hadrian also arranged for Antoninus to adopt Marcus Aurelius and the son of his earlier successor. Around the age of 17, Marcus Aurelius became the son of Antoninus. He worked alongside his adopted father while learning the ways of government and public affairs.


    Entry into Politics

    In 140, Aurelius became consul, or leader of the senate—a post he would hold two more times in his lifetime. As the years passed, he received more responsibilities and official powers, evolving into a strong source of support and counsel for Antoninus. Aurelius also continued his philosophical studies and developed an interest in law."


    http://www.biography.com/people/marcus-aurelius-9192657
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-28-2016 at 07:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,796
    The Gracchi are part of a continuum of socialism back to the Druids including Pythagoras. Mr. Draper has a hard time with reality and making a real government function when you begin a new system inside a culture of slave and master - and I agree with Kautsky. More importantly I see Draper putting terms and definitions on the work of people like Plutarch who lived in the era - and I dare say Plutarch knew better what was happening in Toto. I could post this under Cultural Marxism but I think that was a dead horse when stupid people pronounced it had some egis or origin with the Frankfurt School to begin with.

    "1. Some Socialist “Ancestors”

    Karl Kautsky, the leading theoretician of the Second International, began his book on Thomas More with the observation that the two great figures inaugurating the history of socialism are More and Münzer, and that both of them “follow the long line of Socialists, from Lycurgus and Pythagoras to Plato, the Gracchi, Cataline, Christ ...”

    This is a very impressive list of early “socialists,” and considering his position Kautsky should certainly have been able to recognize a socialist when he saw one. What is most fascinating about this list is the way it falls apart under examination into two quite different groups.

    Plutarch’s life of Lycurgus led the early socialists to adopt him as the founder of Spartan “communism” – this is why Kautsky lists him. But as described by Plutarch, the Spartan system was based on equal division of land under private ownership; it was in no way socialistic. The “collectivist” feeling one may get from a description of the Spartan regime comes from a different direction: the way of life of the Spartan ruling class itself, which was organized as a permanent disciplined garrison in a state of siege; and to this add the terroristic regime imposed over the helots (slaves). I do not see how a modern socialist can read of the Lycurgan regime without feeling that he is meeting not an ancestor of socialism but a forerunner of fascism. There is quite a difference! But how is it that it did not impress itself on the leading theoretician of social-democracy?

    Pythagoras founded an elite order which acted as the political arm of the landed aristocracy against the plebeian-democratic movement; he and his party were finally overthrown and expelled by a popular revolutionary rising. Kautsky seems to be on the wrong side of the barricades! But besides, inside the Pythagorean order a regime of total authoritarianism and regimentation prevailed. In spite of this, Kautsky chose to regard Pythagoras as a socialist ancestor because of the belief that the organized Pythagoreans practised communal consumption. Even if this were true (and Kautsky found out later it was not) {Again a matter of who defines what is or is not a managed society that has a goal to create spiritual disciplines and has a hierarchy of adepts who know how people must go through stages of growth before having any luxuries - see Erickson's hierarchy of needs.) this would have made the Pythagorean order exactly as communistic as any monastery. Chalk up a second ancestor of totalitarianism on Kautsky’s list."


    https://www.marxists.org/archive/dra...-ancestors.htm
    Last edited by R_Baird; 02-29-2016 at 03:52 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,796
    You might recall in Gladiator and other movies how the Nubians or black men fought with honour beside their 'brothers' such as the Romans were throwing into these 'civilized' theatres of the absurd while re-writings of history were going on side by side with the destruction of all evidence that any other people should or could take pride in. I hope my efforts to re-capture the pride all people deserve to have in our Brotherhood will grow long after I am here no more. But I want every reader here to know the period when the evidence was being destroyed still had common knowledge that Rome had destroyed these things of decency in every way they could. When our academics are providing proof of this from every science - such as I have done, we will hope for laws and the religions behind those laws can change.

    The derivation of words like Moor, Asoka's family Maurya and the Maori connect with the Hobbit and evidence on Flores Island or more recent art of 524,000 BPE. ESOP had an article of interest with this title - Tunisia: Numidian/Libyan script. Maori = Mauri = Moors.

    I have demonstrated a recent word use on the Aleutian trade route which we know was constant even when Ice Ages and water levels made baidarkas and kayaks necessary - for over ten millennia and probably 250,000 years. This word connects the Tulkus to the tuatha (people of) and the work of Clyde Winters who connects the homeland of Asoka to the Tarim Basin at the foot of Temujin's Mountains. The word is apparent in this link and I will highlight it. I also see possible connections with Moriori Kelts and the work of Martin Doutre, in New Zealand which I have connected with Heyerdahl and Rongorongo etc..

    Linguistics on the Term Moor and its derivatives and MOOR ...

    abundancechild.com/linguistics-on-the-term-moor-and-its-derivatives-an...

    Jan 24, 2009 - The Meroitic script is an alphabetic script originally derived from ... Māori people often use the term tangata whenua (literally, “people of the ... It can be traced from times predating the small Numidian Kingdom of Maure of the 3rd century BC. ... The Mauri people were indicated with the Greek word mauros.
    The young woman in the above link has inspired me by detailing my Phoenician origins and included many more associated words and places they went. It takes me past what the ESOP people proved with the Figuig from Tunisia after the fall of their beloved Carthaginian Phoenician Brotherhood lead inexorably to the Holy Roman genocides. It brings me past the Davenport Stele with it's Egyptian script and leaves me knowing the Mediwiwin inner sanctum of my friends in the Dakotas are in ancient company which I have demonstrated all the way back to Poverty Point in 4000 BPE, with certainty.

    "The term Maure derives from the Phoenician term Mahurin (Westerners). From Mahurin the ancient Greeks derive Mauro meaning original, and later Greeks derive Maurikios (Marrakush) after them, the Latin derive Mauri meaning dark. From the same root we derive: Maur, Maurus, Marra, Moro, Morisco, Mohr, Moritz, Moor, Moru, Maru, Morelo, Maureta, Mauretania, Mauritius, Maureen, Maroon, Morocco, Moore, Maurice, Meuric, Meurig, Morien, Morin, Moryan, Moreto, and such. At one time the whole of the western arm of Africa (what is now West Africa, from Libya to Nigeria and around the Atlantic coast), was called Mauretania. The word Mauretania was interchangeable with all the names of what is now Africa or the Aboriginal Continent: ‘Ethiopia’, ‘Kemet’, ‘Netdjer’, ‘Sudan’, ‘Libya’, ‘Kush’, ‘Guinea’ and the now defunct /defacto and or colorable term ‘Negroland’.

    Indigenous Linguistic & Etymological roots: The Meroitic language was spoken in Meroë during the Meroitic period (about 300 BC-400 AD). It was written in two forms of the Meroitic alphabet.

    Meroe is mentioned succinctly in the First century CE. Meroë derives from (Meroitic: Medewi or Bedewi; Arabic: مرواه Meruwah) Maroc, Meroë is the spelling that we have inherited from the writings of the ancient Romans of the Roman Empire & not the Holy Roman Empire. According to partially deciphered Meroitic texts, the name of the land was Medewi or Bedewi (Török/Tamarok) Muu Lan Pi, 1998). In the third century BC it was an indigenous alphabet, consisting of twenty-three letters, replaced misnomerd Egyptian script."

    http://abundancechild.com/linguistic...ives-and-moor/

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,796
    The Equestrian Class in Rome had control of land they did not even have to own or pay for. The debate over taxes or usage had started Rome when the Etruscan Nobles had done the same thing to the lesser folk who needed the land to grow things upon or in. The same debate raged into the halls of justice and greed two millennia later.

    You have heard the slogan and you know not from whence it came. It is the sort of double talk which makes you think the perps are hard done by, it seems all the more true today when bureaucrats drive people into wreck and ruin while giving themselves the best pensions and perks.

    "the government that governs least governs best".

    It is a catchy phrase and you should know anything written about the Physiocrats and Adam Smith as being the first economic school of thought is utter nonsense. The monopolists and oligarchs including the family of Pierre Dupont de Nemours who authored some of the French Physiocratic writings have always understood and managed the Wealth of Nations. His family wrote the Hebrew Bible in 600 BCE and gave his fellow family members, the Benjaminites, the monopoly on usury. Keep this in mind as you read what I have excerpted herewith from a book on the web addressing Smith's book The Wealth of Nations. Or just read the last sentence.

    "The Physiocrats, on their part, clearly laid down and steadily contended that nothing that did not have material existence, or was not produced from land, could be included in the category of the wealth of society. Adam Smith, however, with seeming inadvertence, has fallen in places into the inconsistency of classing personal qualities and obligations as wealth. This is probably attributable to the fact that what it seemed to him possible to accomplish was much less than the Physiocrats aimed at. The task to which he set himself, that in the main of showing the absurdity and impolicy of the mercantile or protective system, was sufficiently difficult to make him comparatively regardless of speculations that led far beyond it. With the disproval of the current notion that the wealth of nations consists of the precious metals, his care as to what is and what is not a part of that wealth relaxed. He went with the Physiocrats in their condemnation of the attempts of governments to check commerce, but stopped both where they had carried the idea of freeing all production from tax or restraint to the point of a practical proposition, and where they had fallen into obvious error. He neither proposed the single tax, nor did he fall into that mistake of declaring agriculture the only productive occupation. That there is a natural order he saw; and that to this natural order our perceptions of justice conform, he also saw. But that involved in this natural order is a provision for the material needs of advancing society he seems never to have seen.

    There are passages in the Wealth of Nations where Adam Smith checks his inquiry with a suddenness that shows an indisposition to venture on ground that the possessing classes would deem dangerous."


    http://www.politicaleconomy.org/speII_3.htm

    The very term "Physiocrat" is an invention of Pierre Dupont de Nemours. He sold weapons to both sides of all conflicts in his time, before moving his family to Delaware where they continued playing both ends against the middle (Hegelian Dialectic) and benefitting from what became the Military Industrial Complex. I know the serious thinker will see what I quote next about only taxing land, meant he wanted no taxes on his income, and he wanted rents on land to carry the full burden of government. What a master-stroke of deceit he achieved when he got economics to follow this path of reasoning - and then came Keynesian nonsense and building weapons which would never be used (Even giving a complete air force to the Russians shortly before saying they were not to be trusted and therefore we must increase military spending during Peacetime.) just to make work.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Nanaimo
    Posts
    3,796
    Every book in the Bedford series appeals to me. Here is one.

    http://philosophyproject.org/wp-cont...ry-Sources.pdf

    Articles on real history and the role of women - are most important today.

    http://www.suppressedhistories.net/a.../articles.html
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-19-2016 at 01:39 PM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •