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Thread: The Assassins

  1. #1
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    The Assassins

    You might remember the guy who came out of the desert in The Mummy and helped protect the secret city where the Mummy had been kept. I recall him being called a member of the Assassins. There are many mentions of them in many places and no doubt in some language you can say the translation fits. I am including a long discourse between knowledgeable occultists who also mention a variation spelling of Jesus which fits my history (Iesa, Iesoos etc.). You might not want to know about such ultra secret groups or K2 which Ollie North operated in under General Secord. If so do not read further.

    "Subject: Re: Assassins
    Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 23:13:48 GMT

    Matango wrote:

    > I read somewhere (Hakim Bey, I think), that "Assassins", the term,
    > comes from "Hashishim", regarding their practice of numbing the body
    > with hashish before a battle...

    The etymology of the words "assassin" and "hashish" do not point
    conclusively to the above... in fact there has been much speculation
    on the origin of both words over the years. There is an excellent
    chapter on this subject in "The Assassin Legends - Myths of
    the Isma'ilis" by Farhad Daftary... one of the better scholars on
    the subject of the Nizari Isma'ilis.

    There is also no conclusive evidence pointing to the adherents
    smoking hashish as its use was not condoned within the Nizari
    Isma'ilis. Myths suggest it was used primarily as an inducement in
    recruiting new initiates and possibly by those trained as assassins.
    Though the use of intoxicants to recruit new members does not
    seem unreasonable I find the attribution of drug use to the Nizari
    Isma'ilis to be dubious considering Hasan Ibn Sabahs own
    abstentious nature as well as having his son executed for public
    drunkeness.

    -Douglas

    > Dagon Productions wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > You have provided many any interesting takes on the Assassins or more
    > > properly called the Nizari Isma'ilis.
    > >
    > > One must be careful in taking much of the below as fact... the
    > > majority of legends/myths of the Assassins were propagated by
    > > their enemies and have only a slight basis in fact.
    > >
    > > Such as calling the Master of Alamut "The Old Man of the
    > > Mountains"... the "Old Man of the Mountains" was not
    > > Hassan Ibn Sabbah but Rashid Al-Din Sinan, Grand Master
    > > of the Syrian Assassins from about 1162 to his death in 1193.
    > > The phrase "Old Man of
    > > the Mountains" being of Syrian origin. Later other leaders
    > > were often called this name by westerners but this
    > > is apparently traced back to a misunderstanding of the Arabic
    > > word "shaykh", often used of the Isma'ili chiefs.
    > >
    > > -Douglas
    > >
    > > Dan Clore wrote:
    > >
    > > > For whatever interest it may have, I've put together a few
    > > > excerpts from texts that deal with the Assassins.
    > > >
    > > > _The Voyages and Travels of Sir John Mandeville_ is a
    > > > twelfth-century pseudo-travel record that recounts all sorts
    > > > of marvels which the author, whoever he was, had borrowed
    > > > from his reading.
    > > >
    > > > There was a man that was called Catolonapes, he was full
    > > > rich, and had a fair castle on a hill, and he made a wall
    > > > all about the hill right strong and fair, within he had a
    > > > fair garden wherein were many trees bearing all manner of
    > > > fruits that he might find, and he had planted therein all
    > > > manner of herbs of good smell and that bare flowers, and
    > > > there were many fair wells, and by them were made many halls
    > > > and chambers well dight with gold and azure, and he had made
    > > > there divers stories of beasts and birds that sung and
    > > > turned by engine and orbage as they had been quick [alive],
    > > > and he had in his garden all thing that might be to man
    > > > solace and comfort, he had also in that garden maidens
    > > > within the age of XV year, the fairest that he might find,
    > > > and men children of the same age, and they were clothed with
    > > > cloth of gold, and he said that they were angels, and he
    > > > caused to be made certain hills and enclosed them about with
    > > > precious stones of jasper and crystal, and set in gold and
    > > > pearls, and other manner of stones, and he had made a
    > > > conduit under the earth, so that when he would the walls ran
    > > > sometime with milk, sometime with wine, sometime with honey,
    > > > and this place is called Paradise, and when any young
    > > > bachelor of the country, knight or squire, cometh to him for
    > > > solace and disport, he leadeth them into his paradise, and
    > > > showeth them these things as the songs of birds, and his
    > > > damsels, and wells; and he did strike diverse instruments of
    > > > music, in a high tower that might be heard, and said they
    > > > were angels of god, and that place was paradise, that god
    > > > hath granted to those that believed, when he said thus:
    > > > _Dabo vobis terram fluentem lacte et melle_; that is to say,
    > > > I shall give you land flowing with milk and honey. And then
    > > > this rich man did these men drink a manner of drink, of
    > > > which they were drunken, and he said to them, if they would
    > > > die for his sake, when they were dead, they should be of the
    > > > age of those maidens, and should dwell alway with them, and
    > > > he should put them in a fairer paradise where they should
    > > > see god in joy, and in his majesty: and then they granted to
    > > > do what he would, and he bade them go and slay such a lord,
    > > > or a man of the country that he was wroth with, and that
    > > > they should have no dread of no man. And if they were slain
    > > > themself for his sake, he should put them in his paradise
    > > > when they were dead. And so went these bachelors to slay
    > > > great lords of the country, and were slain themself in hope
    > > > to have that paradise, and thus he was avenged of his
    > > > enemies through his desert, and when rich men of the country
    > > > perceived this cautell [guile] and malice, and the will of
    > > > this Catolonapes, they gathered them together and assailed
    > > > the castle and slew him and destroyed all his goods and his
    > > > fair places and riches that were in his paradise; and the
    > > > place of the walls is there yet, and some other things, but
    > > > the riches are not, and it is not long ago since it was
    > > > destroyed.
    > > >
    > > > Another version:




    http://www.arcane-archive.org/societies/assassins-2.php
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-04-2016 at 10:37 PM.

  2. #2
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    Continuing from above.

    "> > > There was dwelling, sometime, a rich man; and it is not long
    > > > since; and men clept him Gatholonabes. And he was full of
    > > > cautels and of subtle deceits. And he had a full fair castle
    > > > and a strong in a mountain, so strong and so noble, that no
    > > > man could devise a fairer ne stronger. And he had let mure
    > > > all the mountain about with a strong wall and a fair. And
    > > > within those walls he had the fairest garden that any man
    > > > might behold. And therein were trees bearing all manner of
    > > > fruits, that any man could devise. And therein were also all
    > > > manner virtuous herbs of good smell, and all other herbs
    > > > also that bear fair flowers. And he had also in that garden
    > > > many fair wells; and beside those wells he had let make fair
    > > > halls and fair chambers, depainted all with gold and azure;
    > > > and there were in that place many diverse things, and many
    > > > diverse stories: and of beasts, and of birds that sung full
    > > > delectably and moved by craft, that it seemed that they were
    > > > quick. And he had also in his garden all manner of fowls and
    > > > of beasts that any man might think on, for to have play or
    > > > sport to behold them.
    > > >
    > > > And he had also, in that place, the fairest damsels that
    > > > might be found, under the age of fifteen years, and the
    > > > fairest young striplings that men might get, of that same
    > > > age. And all they were clothed in cloths of gold, full
    > > > richly. And he said that those were angels.
    > > >
    > > > And he had also let make three wells, fair and noble and all
    > > > environed with stone of jasper, of crystal, diapered with
    > > > gold, and set with precious stones and great orient pearls.
    > > > And he had made a conduit under earth, so that the three
    > > > wells, at his list, one should run milk, another wine and
    > > > another honey. And that place he clept Paradise.
    > > >
    > > > And when that any good knight, that was hardy and noble,
    > > > came to see this royalty, he would lead him into his
    > > > paradise, and show him these wonderful things to his
    > > > disport, and the marvellous and delicious song of diverse
    > > > birds, and the fair damsels, and the fair wells of milk, of
    > > > wine and of honey, plenteously running. And he would let
    > > > make divers instruments of music to sound in an high tower,
    > > > so merrily, that it was joy for to hear; and no man should
    > > > see the craft thereof. And those, he said, were angels of
    > > > God, and that place was Paradise, that God had behight to
    > > > his friends, saying, DABO VOBIS TERRAM FLUENTEM LACTE ET
    > > > MELLE. And then would he make them to drink of certain
    > > > drink, whereof anon they should be drunk. And then would
    > > > them think greater delight than they had before. And then
    > > > would he say to them, that if they would die for him and for
    > > > his love, that after their death they should come to his
    > > > paradise; and they should be of the age of those damosels,
    > > > and they should play with them, and yet be maidens. And
    > > > after that yet should he put them in a fairer paradise,
    > > > where that they should see God of nature visibly, in his
    > > > majesty and in his bliss. And then would he shew them his
    > > > intent, and say them, that if they would go slay such a
    > > > lord, or such a man that was his enemy or contrarious to his
    > > > list, that they should not dread to do it and for to be
    > > > slain therefore themselves. For after their death, he would
    > > > put them into another paradise, that was an hundred-fold
    > > > fairer than any of the tother; and there should they dwell
    > > > with the most fairest damosels that might be, and play with
    > > > them ever-more.
    > > >
    > > > And thus went many diverse lusty bachelors for to slay great
    > > > lords in diverse countries, that were his enemies, and made
    > > > themselves to be slain, in hope to have that paradise. And
    > > > thus, often-time, he was revenged of his enemies by his
    > > > subtle deceits and false cautels.
    > > >
    > > > And when the worthy men of the country had perceived this
    > > > subtle falsehood of this Gatholonabes, they assembled them
    > > > with force, and assailed his castle, and slew him, and
    > > > destroyed all the fair places and all the nobilities of that
    > > > paradise. The place of the wells and of the walls and of
    > > > many other things be yet apertly seen, but the riches is
    > > > voided clean. And it is not long gone, since that place was
    > > > destroyed.
    > > >
    > > > _Gesta Romanorum_ (or _Deeds of the Romans_) is a mediaeval
    > > > collection of tales gathered from a very wide range of
    > > > sources (despite the title), retold and voluminously
    > > > moralized. The translator has been kind enough to cut most
    > > > of the morals down to essentials, as in this excerpt.
    > > >
    > > > Tale XXIV
    > > >
    > > > Of the Suggestions of the Devil
    > > >
    > > > There was a celebrated magician, who had a very beautiful
    > > > garden, in which grew flowers of the most fragrant flavour.
    > > > In short, nothing on earth could exceed it. But he
    > > > invariably refused admittance to all except fools, or such
    > > > as were his enemies. When suffered to pass in, however,
    > > > their wonder was extreme; and they straightway implored to
    > > > be allowed to remain. But the magician would grant this boon
    > > > to no one who did not give up his inheritance to him. The
    > > > fools, of course, believing it to be Paradise, while they
    > > > themselves were the chosen and happy possessors of the land,
    > > > gave not another thought to the future. The consequence was
    > > > that, one night, finding them asleep, the magician cut them
    > > > off; and thus, through the instrumentality of a factitious
    > > > Eden, perpetrated the foulest enormities.
    > > >
    > > > Application
    > > >
    > > > My beloved, the magician is the world. It supplies what is
    > > > called wealth; and this, when men have obtained, they close
    > > > their hand upon it, and believe themselves rich. Presently
    > > > they open their hands, and the treasure has disappeared.
    > > >
    > > > Robert Burton's encyclopedic masterpiece, _The Anatomy of
    > > > Melancholy: What It Is, With All the Kinds, Causes,
    > > > Symptomes, Prognostickes & Severall Cures of It
    _, includes a
    > > > retelling of the story:"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-04-2016 at 10:44 PM.

  3. #3
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    Continuing

    "> > > A Tartar prince, saith Marcus Polus [Marco Polo], lib. I,
    > > > cap. 28, called Senex de Montibus [the Old Man of the
    > > > Mountains], the better to establish his government amongst
    > > > his subjects, and to keep them in awe, found a convenient
    > > > place in a pleasant valley, environed with hills, in which
    > > > "he made a delicious park full of odoriferous flowers and
    > > > fruits, and a palace of all worldly contents" that could
    > > > possibly be devised, music, pictures, variety of meats,
    > > > etc., and chose out a certain young man, whom with a
    > > > soporiferous potion he so benumbed that he perceived
    > > > nothing; "and so, fast asleep as he was, caused him to be
    > > > conveyed into this fair garden"; where after he had lived
    > > > awhile in all such pleasures a sensual man could desire, "he
    > > > cast him into a sleep again, and brought him forth, that
    > > > when he awaked he might tell others he had been in
    > > > Paradise." The like he did for hell, and by this means
    > > > brought his people to subjection.
    > > >
    > > > Donn Byrne, _Messer Marco Polo_ (1921) In this nifty little
    > > > Oriental fantasy, an Irish story-teller describes the
    > > > adventures of Marco Polo, taking a small amount of poetic
    > > > liberty with the details, such as in this visit with Hassan
    > > > bin Sabbah.
    > > >
    > > > And they came to Alamoot, the fortress of _Senex de Monte_,
    > > > the Old Man of the Mountain, the King of the Assasins [sic],
    > > > the greatest wizard of all time . . .
    > > >
    > > > Now this is the tale of the Old Man of the Mountain.
    > > >
    > > > Whenever within his dominions there was a fine young
    > > > horseman, the Old Man would put a spell on him and draw him
    > > > to the Castle of Alamoot, and outside of the castle sleep
    > > > would come on him. And when he woke up, he would be inside
    > > > the castle, in the wonderful gardens. And they'd tell him he
    > > > was dead and in paradise. And paradise it would be for him,
    > > > what with the lovely women and the great playing on the
    > > > flutes, the birds singing, and the sun shining, the crystal
    > > > rivers and the flowers of the world. And after a while the
    > > > Old Man of the Mountain would call for him, and tell him he
    > > > was sending him back on earth again on a mission to punish
    > > > Such-and-Such. And the Old Man would put sleep on him and a
    > > > knife in his hand, and when he woke he would be outside the
    > > > Castle of Alamoot. And he would start on his mission. And
    > > > when he came back he would be readmitted to paradise. And if
    > > > he didn't come back, there were others to take his place.
    > > >
    > > > The Old Man of the Mountain always kept one hundred and one
    > > > assasins [sic] and four hundred and four women to tend them.
    > > >
    > > > Now when the caravan of the Polos had come to rest for the
    > > > day, the Old Man of the Mountain put out white, not black
    > > > magic, and he drew Marco Polo to the castle as a magnet
    > > > draws a needle. And Marco Polo galloped up to the Castle in
    > > > the waning moon, and the Old Man looked down on him from the
    > > > battlements and stroked his long white beard.
    > > >
    > > > "Do you know me, Marco Polo?"
    > > >
    > > > "I know you and I have no fear of you, Old Man of the
    > > > Mountain."
    > > >
    > > > "And why have you no fear of me, Marco Polo?"
    > > >
    > > > "Because the cross of the Lord Jesus is between me and harm.
    > > > Because it protects me night and day."
    > > >
    > > > "I know Eesa ben Miriam [i.e., Jesus son of Mary]," said the
    > > > Old Man. "He was a great prophet. But whether he would have
    > > > protected you from me, we will differ about that. I've often
    > > > thought of you, Marco Polo, and you coming this way. I could
    > > > have used you in my work of keeping the kings and chieftains
    > > > of the world in fear and subjection."
    > > >
    > > > "Then why amn't [sic] I in your garden, Old Man of the
    > > > Mountain?"
    > > >
    > > > "The four most beautiful women in the world are in my
    > > > garden. There is a tall, black-haired woman, and she is
    > > > fairer and more adroit than Lilith, who was before Eve; and
    > > > there is a tall, blond woman, and she is like a queen; and
    > > > there is a slim, copper-colored woman, and she is like an
    > > > idol in a shrine; and there is a little brown-haired woman,
    > > > and she is like a child. But none of those women could make
    > > > you believe you were in paradise while there's a face in
    > > > your heart. Not the cross of the Lord Jesus is between you
    > > > and me, but the face of little Golden Bells of China."
    > > >
    > > > "But I am not going to China to woo Golden Bells, Old Man of
    > > > the Mountain. I am going to convert the men of Cathay."
    > > >
    > > > The Old Man of the Mountain laughed and stroked his beard.
    > > >
    > > > "You had a sermon from Gregory before you came away. Did he
    > > > tell you you were to convert the men of Cathay?"
    > > >
    > > > "He did not."
    > > >
    > > > "Ah, Gregory's a sound man. He knew you can't make saints in
    > > > a day. Why, child, I've seen the beginning of the world, and
    > > > I've seen the end of it. I've seen the beginning in a
    > > > crystal glass, and I've seen the end in a pool of ink in a
    > > > slave's hand. I've seen mankind begin lower nor the
    > > > gibbering ape, and I've seen them end the shining sons of
    > > > God. Millions on millions on millions of years, multiplied
    > > > unto dizziness, crawling, infinitesimal work on overcoming
    > > > nature, overcoming themselves, overcoming the princes of the
    > > > powers of darkness, one of whom I am. But this is too deep
    > > > for you, Marco Polo."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-04-2016 at 10:49 PM.

  4. #4
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    Continuing

    " "Now you can go on your way without hindrance from me, Marco Polo, because of the memory of an old time, when the courting of a woman was more to me than the killing of a man, when beauty meant more nor power.

    "Let you be on your way, Marco Polo, while I sit here a lonely old man, with wee soft ghosts whispering to him. Let you be hastening on your way before I remember I am a prince of the powers of darkness and should do you harm . . ."

    Robert E. Howard's novel _Three-Bladed Doom_, published posthumously in 1977, involves a revival of the Assassins. From their secret base in Afghanistan, these hemp-maddened fanatics carry out terrorist attacks against the West. When the protagonist, Francis Xavier Gordon, confronts their leader, they both seem to have come fresh from reading reference works on the Assassins.

    "Then you know our purpose? Our ambition?"
    "I know what you call yourselves. Long ago there was another city on a mountain, ruled by _emirs_ who called themselves Shaykhs Al Jebal-the Old Men of the Mountain. Their followers were called Assassins. They were hemp-eaters, hashish addicts, and their terrorist methods made the Shaykhs feared all over Western Asia."

    "Aye!" a dark fire lit the Persian's eyes. "Saladin himself feared them. The Crusaders feared them. The Shah of Persia, the _emirs_ of Damascus, the Khalifs of Baghdad, the Sultans of Egypt and of the Seljuks paid tribute to the Shaykhs Al Jebal. They did not lead armies in the field; they fought by poison and fire and the triple-bladed dagger that bit in the dark. Their scarlet-cloaked emissaries of death went forth with hidden daggers to do their bidding. And kings died in Cairo, in Jerusalem, in Samarcand, in Brusa. On Mount Alamut, in Persia, the first Shaykh, Hassan ibn Sabah, built his great castle-city, with its hidden gardens where his followers were permitted to taste the joys of paradise where dancing girls fair as _houris_ flitted among the blossoms and the dreams of _hashish_ gilded all with rapture."

    "The follower was drugged and placed in the garden," grunted Gordon. "He thought he was in the Prophet's Paradise. Later he was drugged again and removed, and told that to regain this rapture he had only to obey the Shaykh to the death. No king was ever given such absolute obedience as the _fedauis_ accorded the Shaykhs. Until the Mongols under Hulagu Khan destroyed their mountain castles in 1256, they threatened Oriental civilization with destruction."

    "Aye! And I am a direct descendant of Hassan ibn Sabah!" A fanatical light gleamed in his dark eyes. "Throughout my youth I dreamed of the greatness of my ancestors. Wealth that flowed suddenly from the barren lands of my family-western money that came to me from minerals found there-made the dream become reality. Othman el Aziz became Shaykh Al Jebal!

    "Hassan ibn Sabah was a follower of Ismail, who taught that all deeds and men are one in the sight of Allah. The Ismailian creed is broad and deep as the sea. It overlooks racial and religious differences, and unites men of opposing sects. It is the one power that can ultimately lead to a united Asia. The people of my own native hills had not forgotten the teachings of Ismail, nor the gardens of the _hashishin_. It was from them I recruited my first followers. But others soon flocked to me in the mountains of Kurdistan where I had my first stronghold-Yezidees, Kurds, Druses, Arabs, Persians, Turks-outlaws, men without hope, who were ready even to forswear Muhammad for a taste of Paradise on earth. But the _Batini_ creed forswears nothing; it unites. My emissaries travelled throughout Asia, drawing followers to me. I chose my men carefully. My band has grown slowly, for each member was tested to prove that he was fit for my service....

    "Look!" He rose and beckoned Gordon to follow him. The giant
    > > > blacks closed in on each side of the Shaykh, and he led the
    > > > way into an alcove unsuspected until one of the negroes drew
    > > > aside a tapestry behind the throne. They stood in a latticed
    > > > balcony looking down into a garden enclosed by a
    > > > fifteen-foot wall, which wall was almost completely masked
    > > > by thick shrubbery. An exotic fragrance rose from masses of
    > > > trees, shrubs and blossoms, and silvery fountains tinkled
    > > > musically. Gordon saw women moving among the trees, unveiled
    > > > and scantily clad in filmy silk and jewel-crusted
    > > > velvet-slim, supple girls, Arab and Persian and Hindu,
    > > > mostly, and he suddenly saw the explanation of the
    > > > mysterious disappearances of certain Indian girls, which of
    > > > late years had increased too greatly to be explained by
    > > > casual kidnappings of native princelings. Men, looking like
    > > > opium-sleepers, lay under the trees on silken cushions, and
    > > > native music wailed melodiously from unseen musicians. It
    > > > was easy to understand how an Oriental, his senses at once
    > > > drugged and inflamed by _hashish_, would believe himself to
    > > > be in the Prophet's Paradise, upon awakening in that
    > > > fantastic garden.
    > > >
    > > > "I have copied, and improved upon, the _hashish_ garden of
    > > > Hassan ibn Sabah," said the Shaykh, at last closing the
    > > > cleverly disguised casement and turning back into the
    > > > throneroom.
    > > >
    > > > Mack Reynolds' _After Utopia_ (1977) is one of a large
    > > > number of science-fiction novels by this author, exploring
    > > > different socio-politico-economic systems, usually in the
    > > > year 2000. This one introduces a device that will create a
    > > > dream to order, subjectively indistinguishable from reality.
    > > >
    > > > Tracy said, "Well, one thing that's always intrigued me was
    > > > the gardens of Hasan Ben Sabbah."
    > > >
    > > > Jo Edmonds said, "Never heard of him. Stretch out on the bed
    > > > here. You can do this yourself, after the first time. I'll
    > > > show you how."
    > > >
    > > > Tracy obeyed orders. "Nothing can go wrong, eh?"
    > > >
    > > > Edmonds put electrodes on both of Tracy's eyes and one at
    > > > the nape of his neck. "The idea is," he explained "to send
    > > > low-frequency pulses to your cerebral cortex. All right, now
    > > > tell all you know about this Hasan-whatever-his-name-was and
    > > > about those gardens of his."
    > > >
    > > > Tracy said, "I read a biography about him while I was in a
    > > > concentration camp. Hasan Ben Sabbah was a contemporary of
    > > > Omar Khayyam, the poet. In fact, they went to school
    > > > together and were friends. Hasan became head of the Persian
    > > > sect of the Ismailian Moslems and began a reign of terror in
    > > > the country. He seized the castle of Alamut on a mountain
    > > > just south of the Caspian Sea, and it was there he built
    > > > possibly the most fabulous gardens ever known. When the
    > > > Crusaders came, he was known to them as the Old Man of the
    > > > Mountains. He became the most powerful force in Persia. This
    > > > is how his system worked. He would take one of his younger,
    > > > stronger-and more stupid, it's to be assumed-men and feed
    > > > him some hashish. The follower would pass out and when he
    > > > awakened find himself dressed like a Prince from the Arabian
    > > > Knights [sic]. He would be in beautiful gardens the
    > > > fountains of which gushed wine, supposedly forbidden by
    > > > Allah on Earth, but available in abundance in paradise. The
    > > > walks of these fabulous gardens were graveled with precious
    > > > and semiprecious stones. The buildings were probably similar
    > > > to those later erected by the Moors in Spain in Grenada, the
    > > > Alhambra.
    > > >
    > > > "The follower was a simple Arab. He probably came from a
    > > > small desert town, or had been in nomad tents. This to him
    > > > was inconceivable. The most water he had probably ever seen
    > > > in his life would have been only enough to quench his
    > > > thirst. He had probably never been clean before in his life.
    > > > But the baths and fountains here were everywhere. On top of
    > > > all else, there were eight of the most beautiful women he
    > > > had ever dreamed of, and they came in a wide selection of
    > > > flavors. And they all adored him. They were obviously the

    > > > houris promised by Mohammed for each man when he entered
    > > > paradise. They were supposedly not truly human-because the
    > > > Moslem woman does not enter paradise, but only the man-but
    > > > each was more beautiful than any woman on Earth. At least,
    > > > the Hasan follower must have thought so, probably never
    > > > having seen a truly beautiful woman in his life, certainly
    > > > not unveiled.
    > > >
    > > > "On him they pressed the most delicious food he had ever
    > > > eaten. They vied for his favors. They continued to ply him
    > > > with hashish. They played exotic music for him, sang softly
    > > > to him, saw he was most comfortable on his cushions. And,
    > > > above all, they submitted him to every sexual act known at
    > > > the time . . . and they knew as much then as ever before or
    > > > after. [ellipsis in original]
    > > >
    > > > "Before he became seated [sated?], they gave him still more
    > > > hashish so that he passed out again. When he awakened, he
    > > > was back in the presence of Hasan Ben Sabbah, in that
    > > > worthy's throne room. The follower was again in his original
    > > > dirt and rags, and probably had a hangover, at least a
    > > > slight one, from the unaccustomed wine, the rich food, the
    > > > sex, and the hashish."

  5. #5
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    Continuing

    " "Hasan explained to him gently that he had just been to paradise, just as a sample of what would be his for all eternity if he but followed the commands of Hasan Ben Sabbah, leader of all the faithful Ismailians. Upon death, in the service of Hasan, he would immediately return to paradise and his eight houris. {Or 72 virgins in an Hadith from that era.} Obviously, the simple countryman swore devotion.

    "Hasan would then dispatch him to assassinate this vizier, this sheik, or that emir, who was currently standing the way of Ismailian ambitions. When it comes to assassination, there is little defense against who is willing to die in the
    > > > attempt. Or, if there was a successful defense against the
    > > > first one, another assassin came, and a third, and a fourth.
    > > > And finally the proposed victim either got the message and
    > > > made his peace with Hasan, or, sooner or later, he fell to
    > > > the knives of the assassins.
    > > >
    > > > "The origin of the word assassin is debated. It is evidently
    > > > either derived from 'Hasan' or 'hashish' the drug he
    > > > befuddled his followers with."
    > > >
    > > > "To use your favorite term, Jesus Christ," Jo Edmonds said.
    > > > "Just what do you want to dream doing in this garden of
    > > > Hasan Ben Sabbah?"
    > > >
    > > > Tracy said, "I want to enter it exactly as did his drugged
    > > > followers. I'll have to be able to speak Arabic or Persian,
    > > > or whatever it was they spoke in Omar Khayyam's time. Either
    > > > that, or whoever I meet will have to speak English."
    > > >
    > > > "That's no problem," Edmonds said. "All right. Here you go."
    > > > He reached over to the small table beside bed and flicked a
    > > > switch.
    > > >
    > > > James Branch Cabell, "The Music from Behind the Moon:
    > > > Another Comedy of Woman-Worship" (combined with _Domnei: A
    > > > Comedy of Woman-Worship_ in most editions, hence the
    > > > subtitle) makes a brief mention, as follows.
    > > >
    > > > Just so it fared with Madoc in many kingdoms. He wandered
    > > > everywhither, writing noble songs with his black pen. He
    > > > sang these songs before great notabilities, before the
    > > > Soldan of Ethiopia under a purple awning worked with silver
    > > > crescents, and before the Pope of Rome in a white marble
    > > > room quite empty of all furnishing, and before the Old Man
    > > > of the Mountains beside a fire in a grove of fir trees at
    > > > midnight. Everywhere people of every estate delighted in
    > > > Madoc's song-making.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Dan Clore
    > > > mailto:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > > Now available: _The Unspeakable and Others_
    > > > Including all my fiction through 2001, and more.
    > > > http://www.wildsidepress.com/index2.htm
    > > > http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...edanclorenecro
    > > >
    > > > Lord We˙rdgliffe:
    > > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
    > > > Necronomicon Page:
    > > > http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/necpage.htm
    > > > News for Anarchists & Activists:
    > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
    > > >
    > > > I've watched the dogs of war enjoying their feast
    > > > I've seen the western world go down in the east
    > > > The food of love became the greed of our time
    > > > But now we're living on the profits of crime
    > > > --Black Sabbath, "Hole in the Sky"

    --
    **********************************************
    Dan Clore wrote:

    > Dagon Productions wrote:
    > > Matango wrote:
    > >
    > > > I read somewhere (Hakim Bey, I think), that "Assassins", the term,
    > > > comes from "Hashishim", regarding their practice of numbing the body
    > > > with hashish before a battle...
    > > >
    > > The etymology of the words "assassin" and "hashish" do not point
    > > conclusively to the above... in fact there has been much speculation
    > > on the origin of both words over the years. There is an excellent
    > > chapter on this subject in "The Assassin Legends - Myths of
    > > the Isma'ilis" by Farhad Daftary... one of the better scholars on
    > > the subject of the Nizari Isma'ilis.
    >
    > A more likely derivation is from _asas_ meaning something
    > like a saint or holy man. They don't seem to have ever used
    > the term themselves.
    >

    Can you cite a source for this claim... I have not been able to
    find anything in my reference books on the Assassins pertaining
    to such.

    I have found a reference to the term "assis" which was a word
    they used for the hemp plant though.


    >
    > > There is also no conclusive evidence pointing to the adherents
    > > smoking hashish as its use was not condoned within the Nizari
    > > Isma'ilis. Myths suggest it was used primarily as an inducement in
    > > recruiting new initiates and possibly by those trained as assassins.
    > > Though the use of intoxicants to recruit new members does not
    > > seem unreasonable I find the attribution of drug use to the Nizari
    > > Isma'ilis to be dubious considering Hasan Ibn Sabahs own
    > > abstentious nature as well as having his son executed for public
    > > drunkeness.
    >
    > The Nizari Isma'ilis would certainly have known of the
    > effects of hashish, as it was in common use in that time and
    > place. This includes among Sufis who used it for spiritual
    > illumination.

    I agree.


    > So, it's not unlikely that the Nizari
    > Isma'ilis used hashish, but there would be nothing special
    > about such use.

    I thought so for years... but current research seems to lean
    away from such a stance these days.



    > The two stories about their use are both
    > likely false. The idea of using hashish while fighting or
    > performing an assassination is ridiculous. (The idea that it
    > induces a fearless fighting ability seems to be longlived,
    > though. One rumor that spread during the Lon Nol regime in
    > Cambodia was that the Khmer Rouge gained their fierceness
    > through use of hashish, so the Lon Nol soldiers started
    > taking it. It did not improve their fighting ability any
    > more than the special uniforms equipped with magic sigils
    > that Lon Nol had designed for them made bullets bounce off.)
    > They still might have used it for its painkilling effects.
    > The story about the phony garden of paradise is more
    > interesting. Here the big problem would be the location of
    > this garden. William Burroughs' buddy Brion Gysin actually
    > visited the fortress at Alamut, and if there was any sort of
    > garden there it was in the valley below. But see Burroughs'
    > comments in _Ah Pook Is Here_ on this matter.

    Hard to say if the garden was "phony," since it was destroyed.
    I haven't read _Ah Pook is Here_ in a decade but after quickly
    thumbing through it I did not find any references to Alamut or
    Gysin... could you cite the passage you are refering to?

    Gysin did visit Alamut and I've not previously heard of the
    garden being in the valley... but here are some pics I have on
    file of what is left of Alamut:

    http://www.dagonproductions.com/alamuta.jpg

    http://www.dagonproductions.com/alamutb.jpg

    http://www.dagonproductions.com/alamutc.jpg

    -Douglas


    I will have to do a thread on Hakim Bey. His pirate governance model might be the real governance we can trust.

    http://hermetic.com/bey/

    A ditty serves to make things clearer
    About my thought which I hold nearer

    Hearken here to hear the call
    Of those who know not what the thrall
    Of witches round you, cauldron make
    Or e'en their mind why it should quake
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-07-2016 at 12:07 AM.

  6. #6
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    You might think that all the funny thinking is not sincere or tuned in to much more than absurd hallucination. But the thinking expands and encompasses all that is real and if you cannot see it, then you might need to look until you do, then throw it out!

    "Because the focus of much conspiracy research has been dirverted to the Federal Reserve, UFOs, "the Jews" and even the Jesuits, it has failed to apprehend the most important development of occultism in modern times and the source of transhumanism.

    Until recently, occultism was dominated by societies like the Golden Dawn, or Aleister Crowley’s OTO. While the influences of these societies are still central, they have proliferated in entirely new ways. While once associated with solemn candlelit rituals and dark incantations performed by robed mystics, occultism has a new face, and it's the pranksterism of a bizarre parody religion called Discordianism, founded by a close friend of Lee Harvey Oswald, Kerry Thornley.

    The principles of Discordianism are mockery. But it's jocularity hides a more sinister agenda, which is the prejudice that nothign is sacred, underlying their bigroty towards "traditional religions."

    The principles of Discordianism were in part developed in The Illuminatus! Trilogy, speculative fiction novels co-authored by Robert Anton Wilson and Robert Shea. But Discordianism began with Greg Hill (aka Malaclypse the Younger or Mal-2) and Kerry Thornley (aka Omar Khayyam Ravenhurst or Lord Omar), who were drawn together by their common interest in humanism, atheism, black magic, hypnotism and their own deranged sense of humor. The Discordian Society was founded after the 1965 publication of its first holy book, the Principia Discordia.

    According to historian Carole Cusack, the modern pagan revival is largely understood to be the result of the influence of Gerald Gardner, the founder of Wicca, whose rituals were developed with Aleister Crowley.[1] Whenever something goes wrong, pagans will typically pronounce, “Hail Discordia!” in reverence of the goddess of chaos of Discordianism. Margot Adler in Drawing Down the Moon, which provided the first comprehensive look at modern nature-based religions in the US, credits Thornley for being the first to coin the word “pagan” to refer to the various occult movements who paraded themselves as “nature” religions.

    The modern popularization of the terms “pagan” and “neopagan,” as they are currently understood, is largely traced to Oberon Zell-Ravenheart, co-founder of the Church of All Worlds (CAW), which was heavily influenced by Discordianism. CAW was influenced by OTO member Robert Heinlein’s science-fiction novel Stranger in a Strange Land. In the science-fiction novel, a Martian-raised human named Michael Valentine Smith founded The Church of All Worlds, preached sexual freedom and the truth of all religions, and is martyred by narrow-minded people who are not ready for his teachings.”[2]



    Killing the King

    Thornley was deeply implicated in the strange and murky world of the assassination of JFK, which has often been suspected by conspiracy theorists as representing the ancient pagan right of killing the “sacred king.” Like Oswald, Kerry later served at Atsugi Air Base in Japan, the CIA’s headquarters in the Far East, as a radar technician, though they were not stationed at the same time. Kerry’s experience with the consequent mayhem and insubordination that predominated at the base was recounted in The Idle Warriors. While he seemed unaware of it, the rambunctious atmosphere was obviously the result of the unwitting use of LSD. Since the early 1950s, Atsugi served as one of two overseas field stations where the CIA conducted extensive MK-Ultra testing with LSD.[3]

    After he moved to New Orleans in 1961, Thornley had also met a mutual friend of Oswald, the strange David Ferrie, at one of his “parties,” as well as Clay Shaw and Guy Banister. These men formed the hotbed of the anti-Kennedy conspiracy uncovered by Garrison, which involved the Mafia, anti-Castro activists, writers, artists, bohemians, Nazis and a homosexual subculture.

    Garrison suspected that the Discordian Society itself was a CIA front. What especially incriminated Thornley was his public celebration on the announcement of JFK’s murder, and the fact that he would introduce himself as follows: “I’m Kerry Thornley. I masterminded the assassination—how do you do?”[4] Garrison finally charged Thornley with perjury after he denied he had been in contact with Oswald since 1959. The perjury charge was eventually dropped by Garrison’s successor Harry Connick, Sr., father of the successful singer and movie actor Harry Connick, Jr.

    Garrison argued that Thornley had impersonated Oswald between the years 1961 and 1963. Thornley lived only a few blocks away from Oswald, in New Orleans, and they were seen together on repeated occasions according to several witnesses. One of these was Barbara Reid, a voodoo priestess who was a member of Thornley’s Discordian Society, and “up to her ass” in the Process Church.[5]...

    An early prototype of the Principia Discordia was copied using a mimeograph machine in Garrison’s office, by Greg Hill and his friend Lane Caplinger, who worked as a typist in the office. Lane Caplinger’s sister was Grace (Caplinger) Zabriskie, who became one of Thornley’s lovers. There were rumors that she was the subject of Bob Dylan’s Like A Rolling Stone. She later became a successful Hollywood actress, appearing in many popular films, including Norma Rae, Fried Green Tomatoes, Twin Peaks (as the eerily psychic mother of the doomed Laura Palmer), Seinfeld, Big Love and Charmed, which follows three sisters, known as “The Charmed Ones,” and the most powerful good witches of all time.

    In 1992, in an interview with the tabloid magazine show A Current Affair, Thornley confessed that prior to the assassination, “I wanted to shoot him. I wanted to assassinate him very much…I wanted him dead I would have shot him myself. I would have stood there with a rifle and pulled the trigger if I would have had the chance.”

    The interview was arranged with the assistance of Thornley’s friend Sondra London, who has since come to be known as the “Serial Killer Groupie,” for her relationship with death row serial killer inmates G.J. Schaefer and Danny Rolling. Between 1992 and 1998, Thornley had participated in a series of interviews with London about what he would recollect of his knowledge of the JFK assassination, which are now available on YouTube.[7]

    Thornley supposedly became convinced that he and Oswald were products of a, and that his parents were undercover Nazis. He further believed that he was a product of a Nazi breeding experiment that used both him and Oswald, who he suspected might have been his brother, as guinea pigs. Kerry even came to suspect his own parents were Nazis spies who had made a deal with occult Nazis to conduct these eugenics experiments, the ultimate purpose of which was to create a Manchurian candidate. In fact, Thornley viewed the whole psychoanalytical establishment as a product of Nazism and an outgrowth of the eugenics movement.[8]

    Thornley ultimately came to believe that Robert Anton Wilson was his MK-Ultra handler. Famed JFK assassination researcher Mae Brussell also asserted that Robert Anton Wilson was a CIA agent. When asked about the claim, Wilson retorted, “Ahh, if I were, I would deny it.”[9] Wilson, who was working as associate editor of Playboy magazine at the time, met Hill and Thornley in 1967, and helped develop many of the Discordian Society’s creeds and dogmas.[10] Wilson and Thornley developed “Operation Mindfuck” (OM) in 1968, and Adam Gorightly argues that Thornley deliberately issued statements during the investigation claiming he was an agent of the Bavarian Illuminati, simply to “mindfuck” Garrison.[11]


    Church of the SubGenius

    There is some question as to whether Discordianism should be regarded merely as a parody of religion. According to Robert Anton Wilson, however, “Many people consider Discordianism a complicated joke disguised as a new religion. I prefer to consider it a new religion disguised as a complicated joke.”[12] Discordians use irreverent humor to promote their philosophy and to prevent their beliefs from becoming “dogmatic.”

    The tom-foolery of Discordianism has a sacred purpose, according to Ian Bear, who referred to it in the neopagan journal Green Egg, as "Divine irreverence":

    The trickster is able to bring up in a humorous way issues that may still be too controversial to begin serious debates over. Willingness to parody ourselves protects us from becoming truly ridiculous, and renders parodies of us by our enemies utterly useless. If the New Agers were more willing to parody themselves, their culture might have filtered out some of its more absurd notions, and spared itself much vicious lampooning from without. It is the job of the Discordian to disrupt unhealthy patterns, including one's own. It should be noted that making pointless wisecracks just as the energy is peaking in a ritual is not a positive use of irreverence.

    On a larger scale the chaos magician is able to work vast changes unattainable through ordinary, orderly means. Where chaotic systems exist, it is now well known that in the right place, a small flutter can transform the entire system. This is known in chaos science as the butterfly effect. In these fast changing times, at this crossroads of history, in this time of crisis and opportunity, our entire society is a chaotic system. By observing society keenly, and choosing the appropriate moment for the golden apple to be launched, the chaos magician can work great changes in society through the social butterfly effect."


    http://www.conspiracyschool.com/blog...-transhumanism
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-05-2016 at 03:10 AM.

  7. #7
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    Far be it for me to disagree with an author who blames the Arabs for the Crusades. I seem to recall Charlemagne made a deal with the Moors at Roncesvalles and was inviting them to Spain. But the Durants were my source, and they covered how Charlemagne was fighting local people and forfeited the lives of many of his own in that battle which served him well. I have no reason to bother looking into his. I know very well the nature of lies by Empire and I find his rationalizations racist and offensive, as the Muslims are invading Europe and one or two truths do not equate to the horror show of the Crusades. I am not even including the Crusades aimed at Spain and Southern France during the Cathar era. Yes, they too included Sufis and Muslim esoteric sects. I will supply his website (reluctantly) and here is about half of what it says.

    "Secret Societies: The Templars and the Assassins
    James Wasserman

    Good evening. Turn on a TV or open a newspaper in any country on earth today, and you will be faced with the inescapable conclusion that the Crusades did not end in 1290. Western civilization and Islam are now fully engaged in what I believe can only be understood as the modern Crusades. This war began with the Muslim invasion of Spain in 711. It continued with the attack on France in 732. In 1095, the Muslim military advance drew perilously close to Constantinople (modern Istanbul). The Byzantine emperor approached the West and vowed to abandon the Greek Orthodox faith in return for Roman Catholic assistance in the defense of Christendom. The medieval Crusades were an act of self-defense.

    The politically correct version of this story attributes the Crusades to an outbreak of religious fanaticism and aggression on the part of Europe. However the author of the Song of Roland, the classic ninth century account of the defense against the Muslim invasion of France, would heartily disagree — as would the many thousands who lost their lives in that campaign. A similar interpretation of the modern Crusades — such as American lust for oil — might be equally rejected by the three thousand people who died here on September 11.

    It is important to place the political situation in context because it hints at the primary theme of tonight’s discussion. And that is the modern relevance of two groups of warrior monks from the Crusades — secret societies vowed to the extension and defense of their religions. We will also examine some of the roots of their mystical doctrines.

    One unexpected consequence of the medieval Crusades was the end of centuries of control of Europe by the Roman Catholic Church. In addition to the military defeat of Christian armies, there were three primary spiritual causes for the fall of the Church’s political and religious hegemony — and the flowering of the Renaissance beginning at the end of the 14th century. That burst of religious and cultural creativity would result in the rise of the esoteric movements, of which Freemasonry may be considered the crown jewel.

    The Knights Templar

    The first of these influences was of course the Knights Templar. They were founded in Jerusalem in 1118 or 1119 by nine knights who pledged themselves to poverty, holy obedience, and chastity under the leadership of Hughes de Payens. Hughes had spent two decades in the Holy Land as a Crusader. His wife died leaving him with no ties to this world other than his faith. Of late, he had despaired of fighting and the secular life, and was in the throes of a spiritual crisis. The Patriarch and King of Jerusalem suggested that Hughes and his men serve God by protecting pilgrims who came to visit the sites of the Christian faith, and walk in the very footsteps of Christ and the Apostles.

    The pilgrimage had become especially popular in the tenth and eleventh centuries as the dreary conditions of the Dark Ages began to improve. Swamps were drained, forests cleared, houses, castles and towns constructed, roads improved, and a more positive mindset infused Europe. Millennial fears and the dark expectations of a fervently anxious and superstitious people passed. Think back to our own reaction to the millennial fears of Y2K. To the medieval mind, St. John’s description of the Beast of the Apocalypse and his thousand year reign of evil was even more unnerving than the threat of a worldwide computer breakdown.

    Survival brought hope, and tentative steps were made toward the modern world — of which the pilgrimage was a prime component. For it offered the opportunity to scholars, students, religious devotees, wanderers, merchants, even criminals punished by exile, to move beyond the limited confines of Europe. (During the period from 6th through 10th centuries we call the Dark Ages, most people never traveled more than ten miles from their birthplace.)

    Travelers discovered that the Holy Land of their dreams and aspirations was occupied by an alien populace, whose language, customs, and beliefs were in sharp contrast to their own. The biblical sites of Bethlehem, Sinai, and Jerusalem were controlled by those who demanded a tax for pilgrims, who might unleash bands of brigands against people they considered infidels, and who had erected mosques and madrassas where churches should stand. In Constantinople, Roman Catholic pilgrims learned that the burial shroud of Christ, fragments of the True Cross, and other precious relics of their faith were in the hands of unrecognizable Christians —who claimed to worship Jesus, but who did so in strange languages, with a married clergy, alternate Mass, and no allegiance to the pope.

    The pleading of the Byzantine emperor for help against the invading hordes of Islam aligned perfectly with the stars to launch the First Crusade in 1095.

    After a stunning series of hard-won victories at Nicaea, Antioch, and Jerusalem — in which God’s assent to the plan seemed demonstrated — a new period of European civilization developed in the Palestinian region. Construction of castles and fortifications, churches, residences, the development of government, farming, commerce, and military readiness proceeded.

    At the same time, pilgrims continued to visit in increasing numbers. Yet travel was still difficult. Muslim robbers and insurgents attacked Christian caravans. A particularly horrific assault took place in 1119 in which 300 pilgrims were killed and another 60 captured and held for ransom.

    It was in this setting that Hughes and his friends approached the Patriarch and King. And they assumed the obligations to bear arms in service to Christianity as protectors of the Holy Land.

    The Order of the Poor Knights of Jesus Christ was awarded lodgings on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem at the site of the Temple of Solomon in the al-Aqsa mosque. Thus they were known as the Knights of the Temple, or Knights Templar. Their vow of poverty caused them to dress in the donated clothing of the faithful, while their lodgings were described by a contemporary visitor as shabby. Yet something was happening. Count Fulk of Anjou (later King of Jerusalem) is believed to have become an associate member. A castle was donated to the Order in the northern mountain region of Lebanon. One of the original nine knights was the nephew of Bernard of Clairvaux {This is one of the reasons I suspect Bernard was a triple agent - see thread.}, an enormously influential Cistercian abbot, later canonized,.

    In less than a decade, the Order was catapulted into prominence and history. The Patriarch wrote to Bernard asking his help in getting the Templars regularized by the Church, and in drafting a Rule for their conduct. Bernard was captivated with the idea of an order of warrior monks in service to Christ and His Church. He worked to get them papal sanction and proselytized on their behalf throughout Europe. The Templars were recognized at the Council of Troyes in 1128. Bernard helped draft a Rule, based on the fourth century monastic Rule of Saint Benedict. In 1136, he wrote a long letter to Hughes de Payens, In Praise of the New Knighthood, that hymned the ideal of the Holy Warrior.

    "Neither does he bear the sword in vain, for he is God’s minister for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of the good. If he kills an evildoer, he is not a mankiller, but, if I may so put it, a killer of evil. … These men are appointed by God and searched out by his hand to the limits of the land; honorable men of Israel to guard faithfully and protect vigilantly the tomb, which is the bed of the true Solomon, each man with sword in hand, and skillfully trained to battle."

    Yet within two hundred years, these heroic warrior/monks would be arrested, tortured, and executed — slandered as demonically inspired heretics, devil worshipers, sexual libertines, and traitors to Christianity.

    The Assassins

    While images of a Crusade to reclaim Jerusalem were inspiring European Christians, a Persian visionary was meditating upon a fortress in which he and his flock could maintain their independence, pursue their religion, and spread the doctrines of pure Islam. For Hasan-i-Sabah, founder of the Assassins, understood the secret of the true line of succession from the Prophet Muhammad, and the proper direction for the faith.

    When Muhammad died in 632, most Muslims (known as Sunnis) believed he had endorsed his father-in-law Abu Bakr as his successor. (The Caliph, or successor, is not the spiritual equal of the Prophet. Rather, he is charged with leading the flock and enforcing religious regularity. Since Islamic government is a theocracy, the Caliph is a combination of Pope and King.) An alternate contemporary faction (known as Shiites) claimed that Muhammad had actually appointed his son-in-law and cousin Ali as his heir. They asserted that the genetic stamp..."


    http://jameswassermanbooks.com/templar-lecture.html

    The stories of the Hardy Boys and the assassins are as good as this guy.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-06-2016 at 04:17 PM.

  8. #8
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    It is not like me to avoid reading nonsense just because I know it is nonsense. I did read this enough to see what was going on, and I just checked his source (The Song of Roland) to see if our schools are promoting his point of view in any manner. This one gets it right but who knows - in the realm of Templar origins and people talking utter nonsense nothing would surprise me. That includes anyone claiming they are Templars - and there are many different claimants thereto.

    "Song of Roland Study Guide

    La Chanson de Roland, or The Song of Roland, is the oldest surviving French poem. It is also the oldest and greatest of the chansons de geste, medieval epic poems written in French. In old French, "geste" means a deed or action, often of heroic proportions. A hundred or so of these epic poems survive, dating from around the year 1100 to the late fourteenth century. In their time, they were exceedingly popular.

    Although we know neither the identity of The Song of Roland's composer nor the date of its composition, most scholars estimate that the poem was written between 1098-1100. This dating puts the poem's origin at the time of the First Crusade, and indeed the poem has been characterized by some scholars as "propaganda" to encourage Christians to take up arms against Islam. "Propaganda" here is a loose term, including a broad range of artistic creations that can intend to push listeners to action or simply paint certain policies or events from a specific perspective. What can be said for certain is that The Song of Roland seems animated by the spirit of the Crusades, a time when the medieval Catholic Church, at the height of its power, sought to expand Christendom into the Holy Land.

    The poem describes events happening several centuries earlier, during the reign of the mighty Christian warrior-king Charlemagne. The historical context of the poem therefore straddles several centuries, and to properly understand the poem we must bear in mind its rich historical background.

    The poem is a legendary account with some basis in reality: in 778, the rearguard of Charlemagne's army was slaughtered in the Roncesvalles (old French: Rencesvals) pass of the Pyrenees mountains. Accounts from this dark period of European history are always problematic, but the most reliable European account of the event comes from Einhard, Charlemagne's own biographer:

    At a moment when Charlemagne's army was stretched out in a long column of march, as the nature of the local defiles forced it to be, these Basques [Wascones], who had set their ambush on the very top of one of the mountains, came rushing down on the last part of the baggage train and the troops who were marching in support of the rearguard and so protecting the army which had gone on ahead. The Basques forced them down into the valley beneath, joined battle with them and killed them to the last man. They then snatched up the baggage, and, protected as they were by the cover of darkness, which was just beginning to fall, scattered in all directions without losing a moment. In this feat the Basques were helped by the lightness of their arms and by the nature of the terrain in which the battle was fought. On the other hand, the heavy nature of their own equipment and the unevenness of the ground completely hampered the Franks in their resistance to the Basques. In this battle died Eggihard, who was in charge of the King's table, Anshelm, the Count of the palace, and Roland, Lord of the Breton Marches, along with a great number of others. What is more, this assault could not be avenged there and then, for, once it was over, the enemy dispersed in such a way that no one knew where or among which people they could be found. (Burgess, 9-10, translated from Einhard's Vita Karoli Magni, or, The Life of Charlemagne)

    Those familiar with the events of the poem will notice several divergences between the poem and history. For one thing, the adversaries of the poem are Saracens (called also in the poem "pagans"), not Basque natives. And while Einhard's account mentions Roland, the other chief characters of the poem are missing. According to Einhard, revenge was not possible, but in the poem Charlemagne seeks out an immediate and satisfying revenge that also completes his conquest of Spain.

    The campaigns in Spain must be seen within the greater context of Charlemagne's life and times. Charlemagne lived during an era when the tide of Islam seemed unstoppable. Islam, a religion not yet three centuries old, had swept up the world of North Africa and the Middle East. These newly Moslem kingdoms were richer, stronger, and culturally and technologically well ahead of the kingdoms and tribes of Europe. Moslem Spain, to cite one example, was one of the most magnificent parts of Europe: Islam had brought the benefits of sophisticated culture, science, and institutions.

    Europe itself was not yet fully Christianized. {Or more correctly they should say Romanized.} In many places, particularly in the north, pagan and barbarian tribes still maintained strongholds. The Catholic Church seemed threatened on all sides. The Roman Empire had fallen several centuries before, and life had become less ordered, more dangerous, and far more difficult. Charlemagne was a devout Christian and a fierce warrior, who expanded his Frankish borders until he ruled a Christian empire including large areas of present-day Germany and France, as well as a foothold in Spain. The pope crowned him emperor in 800, recognizing him as a new ruler of the old Western Roman Empire.

    The defeat at Roncesvalles forced Charlemagne to rethink his strategy in Spain; he became defensive, focusing on capturing and holding a few strategic areas to act as a buffer between his own empire and Moslem Spain. Eventually his vassals were able to conquer Barcelona in 803, which enabled him to maintain an area under Frankish control called the Spanish March.

    The Song of Roland more or less ignores this history, depicting instead a Charlemagne capable of conquering all of Spain. The account is legend. Roland, instead of being "Lord of the Breton March," as detailed by Einhard, is a Frankish lord and Charlemagne's own nephew. The "treachery" of the Christian Basques becomes transformed into the treachery of a single man, Ganelon, and the Basques themselves are replaced by Moslems, whom the poet calls Saracens or pagans. The battles are epic and grand, worthy of intervention by God himself, and historical ambiguities or defeats are ignored."


    http://www.gradesaver.com/song-of-roland

    In a book titled World War Deception linked here under the Pearl Harbor thread you will find author Ahmad Subani has notes on the Byzantine intrigues including Mongol deals around the time of the Cathar Crusade or the supposed time of The Song of Roland. I cannot copy sections of the book on scrib'd so you will have to read and search for it yourself. It is probably more than worth your while to buy this book. If I were to buy any book - this would be it!!!

    Contrary to what Wassermann says about Rome falling - it grew every time it fell - in power and wealth. Even Gibbon doesn't date it's fall until 1493 with the fall of the Byzantines. And if you only get your facts from TV you will know this is when Pope Alexander (Rodrigo Borgia) split the world up between two of his vassal states. The mini-series The Borgias (which I did not watch and I am sure I would have been disappointed) properly calls them "The Original crime family". Even though there is truth in that - it is far more wide-reaching than even I can know. Some day some of these families will let loose the family books or the Vatican Catacombs will provide some of what they have.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-06-2016 at 04:45 PM.

  9. #9
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    The Sufis contribution to philosophy is interesting and worth serious de-construction about us being asleep to our true soul or in the dual reality we live as seen here.

    There is far too much writing in the Bible lore to spend a great deal of time worrying about - because it is lore - or myth from the Phoenicians and then made into Empire by Rome. It is not Holy it is un-Holy though the land is now full of holes. We also have insights from the Greek Qabalah as to interpretations of The Logos which I consider to be the source for the science of Harmonics brought anew by Tesla who says all he ever achieved was from Revelations in the Bible.

    " 14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " 16From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. 17For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[e][f]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.


    This then combines the two planes into one; though we should be careful as the Gospel of John was written long after the disciple called John had died. Also, an apocryphon is a secret teaching and probably would have only been available to initiates of the Barbelo school. From the Apocryphon of John we also get a mythological rendering of the Barbelo cosmogony in greater detail from that preserved by Irenaeus and here presented by Sufis:

    The Apocryphon of John 4:1-16 describes through a myth/teaching narrative the Story of the AUTO-GENES/Self Brought Forth (Apocyphon of John 4:11,13-16, because G-D's Purpose is expressed through this One whose Light is More Dim for He is conceived by Pronoia/Barbelo His Morther who is the Pleroma/Sephorah/Mumkinat and His Fthr, Who as Beyond Being, Pours Himself out into H-R as Unmanifested Being, then SH- continued by Pouring Herself as Unmanifested Being into the Logos as Manifested or Breathed out Being [Apocryphon of John 4:1-3]). He, the Logos is described as a Mono-genes/the Only Brought Fourth (Apocryphon of John 4:3-4). The Logos who is called Christ/Messiah/Mashiah/Anointed One, because he is the One that the Fthr, G-D, annointed with H-S Goodness, and It was Transmited to the Logos through H-S Mother, Who is called Barbelo, Pronoia, Hagiou Pneumata/Holy Spirit (Apocryphon of John 4:5-6; Apocryphon of John 3:6,8). The Apocryphon of John 4:7-8 then mentions that Christ, the fruit of Emanation, asks for Nous/Mind for a "companion". The Nous/Mind, then Praises in Silence the Pleroma, who is Barbelo, and the Anointed One, Who is the Logos (Apocryphon of John 4:8-9). Thelema/Will is Produced by the Higher Logos/Word, who is the Son of the Hagiou Pneumata/Holy Spirit, Who is Barbelo--the Pleroma (Apocryphon of John 4:10). Then the Lower Logos/Rhema/World followed after Thelema/Will (Apocryphon of John 4:11). It mentions in the Apocryphon of John 4:13 that Hagiou Pneumata/Holy Spirit, Who is here the Male Half, of Androgynous Barbelo (Apocryphon of John 3:8), perfects the Manifested Being of Spirit (Manifesting Being) and Unmanifested Being of Barbelo, Who is the Pronoia. The Auto-genes then Stands before the Spirit, Who is Manifesting Being, Who Honors Him with Loud Praise/Doxa (Apocryphon of John 4:14). The Apocryphon of John 4:15 mentions that Son, who is also called Autogenes issued forth from Pronoia/Forethought, Who is Barbelo (Unmanifested Being), and that this Selfsame Autogenes (Manifested Being) was placed in charge of everything by the Pneuma/Spirit, Who is Manifesting Being. The Apocryphon of John 4:16 then alludes to the Secret of G-D's Inexhaustable Name currently composed of Seventy-two Manifested Huruf with a Seventy-third Harf Hidden/Concealed/Burried Deep into the Realms wraiting to be Manifested. http://famfaerch.dk/pseudigrapher/gnostic/apocjn.html P.S. The Auto-Genes/ the Self Brought Forth, Who is called the Annointed One, the Logos (Manifested Being) of the Pneuma/Spirit (Manifesting Being) creates by a Lesser Logos/Rhema/Speech (see Bereshit 1:3-27; Genesis 1:3-27). The Auto-Genes, the Annointed Logos appears to be a Group Soul for all the Chosen Ones of G-D annoined with H-S Goodness, such as Prophets, Imams, and the Ahl al-Bayt, who are also called the Ahl adh-Dhikr (Surah 16:43).


    In this, the Logos is divided between higher and lower planes, as well as itself being called the Christ as in the Gospel. And indeed in Gnostic cosmogony, it is the Christ that comes from the Pleroma to teach humanity of its true divinity; that it has a soul. This is also the essential inner-school or initiated teaching of the Greek mystery schools as founded by Pythagoras and developed by Plato. And so before we concern ourselves with Gnosticism, we really need to understand the teachings of this school system,"


    http://www.astronargon.us/A%20Greek%...0Sephiroth.pdf

    And as I make clear Pythagoras the Druid is a look backwards past bards like Orpheus who some academics say Pythagoras authored some of the writings we have, to the ancient verbal tradition of Qabala, kept by the BRDs - my name.

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