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Thread: Marija Gimbutas - The DNN

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Gary Rendsburg writes eloquently and passionately about his teacher Cyrus Gordon. Gordon was a person who actually was living amongst the people and conversed with the great discoverers like Sir Flinders-Petrie so he knew what forces were aligned against real history. Crete was connected with New Grange in Ireland by Joseph Campbell - another truth teller. Campbell observed the wear on floor rocks or stones where Investitures took place at the same astronomical time in these far away places. Of course, there are numerous other discredited sources which back up Campbell, Gimbutas, Gordon and Fell including the last two speakers of the five dialects of Ogham I met about a quarter of a century ago. It has made me into the same passionate seeker who speaks about the hegemony in academia - as Gary indicates was true for Gordon in this excerpt from a great resource you can now read.

    "ALTHOUGH CYRUS H. GORDON'S EARLIEST PUBLISHED WORK ON Minoan 1957, his rumination on the problem began as early as 1931. In June of that year the young Gordon was sailing to the Near East for his first visit. His own words tell the story:

    One June night as we were sailing along the coast of Crete, I was sitting with a group of companions on deck, and I was impelled to express my thoughts somewhat as follows: "The Minoan inscriptions from this island are the main challenge to the decipherers of tomorrow. Some- one with the necessary knowledge will succeed, through hard and honest work, in deciphering Minoan." In retrospect, I realize that is no way to talk to travelling companions on a moonlit night in the Mediterranean, but I was shamed and silenced by a middle-aged businessman named Mr Davis, who looked at me with disgust and said, "You sound like a high school valedictorian." I mention the incident only to bring out the fact that my active concern with the problem twenty-five years later had a quarter century of brooding (much of it subconscious) behind it (Gordon 1971:154-5).1
    Fast forward to the year 1956. In the intervening years Gordon had produced three editions of his standard works on the Ugaritic language (Gordon 1940; 1947; 1955c), as well as a standard translation of the Ugaritic myths and epics (Gordon 1949). As is well known, Gordon's work on Ugaritic did not end with his contributions on the language and the literature. Gordon saw that Ugarit was much more than a major source of Canaanite literature providing invaluable material for the background of the Hebrew Bible. For Gordon, Ugaritic was a bridge which spanned the worlds of the Hebrews and the Greeks. Thus, during this same period Gordon pro- duced his seminal works on the common background of the two cultures (see most importantly Gordon 1955a). More- over, it became clear to Gordon that the hub which connected these worlds was Crete (kptr is the home of Kothar-wa-Hasis, the Ugaritic god of arts and crafts; his correspondent in the Greek pantheon is Hephaistos, whose home is also Crete; the Philistines of the Bible emigrated to Canaan from Caphtor; and so on). Others in this special issue are discussing Gor- don's work on Ugaritic and on the common background of Greek and Hebrew civilizations, so there is no need for me to say more on these subjects. Still, it is worth pointing out the obvious, that no portion of Gordon's world is unconnected from the other portions. This singular scholar's work on Minoan did not surface ex nihilo; it can only be understood in light of his work on Ugaritic and Aegean interconnections. In 1956 Michael Ventris and John Chadwick published their important book Documents in Mycenaean Greek (Ventris and Chadwick 1956). A bit of background is necessary to bring us to this important event in modem archaeological and philological research. Starting in 1893 and for several decades there- after, Sir Arthur Evans excavated at various sites on Crete and there discovered the great Bronze Age civilization of ancient Crete which he called Minoan after the legendary king Minos (Evans 1921- 36 is his most comprehensive work). Among his important finds were several hundred day tablets bearing writing in two different, yet very similar, scripts. Evans called the older of the two scripts Linear A and the more recent one Linear B.2 Due to the number of signs, it was assumed by all scholars that both scripts were syllabaries (i.e., non-alphabetic).

    ....A Partial view of the remains of the palace at Knossos, the major Minoan center excavated by Sir Arthur Evans between 1899 and 1935. Located on the north coast of Crete, Knossos, the largest Minoan palace site, produced clay tablets inscribed with Linear A as well as tablets bearing Linear B. V A partial grid of the Minoan syllabary (Gordon 1966:Plate XI). Other signs appear in the texts, but these are of certain reading based on their close similarity to the Linear B signs used to represent Mycenaean Greek."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-19-2016 at 08:01 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    The interests of scholars on any era or subject is fraught with many problems. The archaeologists do need to dig the dirt and get the funds to do that. The Professors need to recognize where their bread is buttered and not stray too far from their professorial heritage as they work their way into a tenured position. I understand the disconnects these things create. I was a public accountant and owned a PR medium which put me in touch with the mind-benders who shape the world for their Masters.

    Although the Wikipedia contributors to a major post on Linear Pottery say it is not connected with Linear A or B I am not so sure. I would love to get a discussion going with actual scholars on the subject who have an open mind like Cyrus Gordon or Marija Gimbutas. I also question the assertions there were no people moving across borders. Do they imagine some king or country was in control - or what?

    "In one view, the AVK came "directly out of" the Körös.[8] The brief, short-ranged Szatmár group on the northern edge of the Körös culture seems transitional.[8] Some place it with the Körös, some with the AVK. The latter's pottery is decorated with white painted bands with incised edges. Körös pottery was painted.

    As is presented above, however, no major population movements occurred across the border. The Körös went on into a late phase in its accustomed place, 5770–5230.[16] The late Körös is also called the Proto-Vinča, which was succeeded by the Vinča-Tordo, 5390–4960. There is no necessity to view the Körös and the AVK as closely connected. The AVK economy is somewhat different: it used cattle and swine, both of which occur wild in the region, instead of the sheep of the Balkans and Mediterranean. The percentage of wild animal bones is greater. Barley, millet and lentils were added.

    Around 5100 or so, towards the end of the Middle Neolithic, the classical AVK descended into a complex of pronounced local groups called the Szakálhát-Esztár-Bükk,[8][16] which flourished about 5260-4880:
    The Szakálhát group was located on the lower and middle Tisza and the Körös Rivers, taking the place of the previous Körös culture. Its pottery went on with the painted white bands and incised edge.
    The Esztár group to the north featured pottery with bands painted in dark paint.
    The Szilmeg group was located in the foothills of the Bükk Mountains.
    The Tiszadob group was located in the Sajó Valley.
    The Bükk group was located in the mountains.

    These are all characterised by finely crafted and decorated ware. The entire group is considered by the majority of the sources listed in this article to have been in the LBK. Before the chronology and many of the sites were known, the Bükk was thought to be a major variant; in fact, Gimbutas[17] at one point believed it to be identical with the Eastern Linear Pottery culture. Since 1991, the predominance of the Alföld has come to light.

    The end of the Eastern Linear Pottery culture and the LBK is less certain. The Szakálhát-Esztár-Bükk descended into another Late Neolithic legacy complex, the Tisza-Hérpály-Csöszhalom, which is either not LBK or is transitional from the LBK to the Tiszapolgar, a successor culture."

    This report fits my history perfectly - and that means the many authors I have quoted are vindicated whereas academia or historians are again shown to write propaganda.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-22-2016 at 01:37 PM.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    There may have been a time when the Romish plotters had a bet with their allies in Britain over who eradicated their assigned enemy first. Most people are aware of the 'Flagellants' and the Holocaust or Inquisitions against the heretical Jews. There are few who know the Irish were almost successfully eliminated and had disappeared into the bogs so the English couldn't find them. The Mayans did the same thing with the Spanish and no doubt lots of others have sought to blend in with the environment in order to avoid such persecution by becoming 'conversos' in public. Bede was probably not the first English historian to jump all over the Irish. Hume was a great historian in this tradition of debauched prejudice too. Here is a letter from him congratulating another conspirator in this continuing plot.

    "I see you entertain a great doubt with regard to the authenticity of the poems of Ossian. You are certainly right in so doing. It is indeed strange that any men of sense could have imagined it possible, that above twenty thousand verses along with numberless historical, could have been preserved by oral tradition during fifty generations, by the rudest, perhaps of all European nations, the most necessitous, the most turbulent, and the most unsettled. Where a supposition is so contrary to common sense, any positive evidence of it ought never to be regarded. Men run with great avidity to give their evidence in favour of what flatters their passions and their national prejudices. You are therefore over and above indulgent to us in speaking of the matter with hesitation." (2)

    Yes, ego of men and their need to flatter their national prejudices are a fact of life, and not just with 'verbal tradition'. In many ways the ancient egalitarian peoples had less political and social reasons to lie, and they supported equality between all people. The author of this letter was regarded by Edward Gibbon as England's greatest historian. He is David Hume and his intellectual progeny and fallout are directly connected to the far less but just as influentially prejudicial words of the great Encyclopedia. This letter is a masterwork of insipid prejudice.

    We know for a fact that Hume is speaking the kind of vile invective that allowed Gibbon's friend Lord Sheffield to benefit so much from the rape of Ireland. Sheffield was a paid off absentee landowner and key political player in Britain's impoverishment of Ireland. This buying of support by giving lands in other nations claimed by 'Divine' or other debatable 'Right' has a long history in European monarchistic management. These authors of hatred and war, prejudice and ignorance, have unclean hands and obvious conflicts of interest. They were called the cause of the Rwandan genocide of the last decade in lock-step and clear order as Number one and two criminals. Number one was the Catholic Church and then the Anglican. They are not separate from their government or secular authority as the recent Canadian court awards make evident. The Catholic request for government to make payment with them for the billions they owe the Indians or the insurance companies the government works with that are paying up are all part of the menagerie.

    Sein Fein was the name of a cultural revival newspaper and society began by Prof. MacManus and others. Now it is a guerrilla or terrorist organization. Why do the Irish fight amongst themselves and believe in Catholicism (south or Eire) that practices the same usages as the English Anglican Church? Why is the Protestant North that feigns to abhor those usages engaged in fighting for the English? The English gave them their land and brought them there from Scotland, while making trade and taxation deals with them to ensure they remained loyal and prospered. Is the church promoting hatred and divisiveness? Sure it isn't engaged in secular matters, what with the separation of church and state and all that kind of fiction!

    "Naturally, of course, the first thing that people in power should do, for a country facing starvation, was to forbid the export of foodstuff from Ireland. But, as Englishmen, having this source of supply cut off, would then have to pay a higher price for their corn, the British Government, 'could not interfere with the natural course of trade'. 'But' the Viceroy Lord Heytesbury, reassured the dying ones, 'there is no cause for alarm-the Government is carefully watching the course of events!" (5)

    What a wonderfully careful Government it was, too. The movie Far and Away portrays a little of the situation and Michael Collins with Liam Neeson states there had been 700 years of war in its opening scroll. The English sent scientists to discover the effects of blight on potato crops as well as the effects of starvation on people, despite their lesser 'civilized' nature. They didn't even return a reasonable portion of the taxes they collected from Ireland during the Famine. The papers in London ridiculed and satirized (in the inimitable English intellect of Hume et. al.) the 'unsettled' or adle-brained drunken Irish, who could offer no more resistance.

    "As they were unable to pay rack rent to the absentee landlord, thousands of the starving ones were thrown out, and other thousands threatened to be thrown out of their wretched homes, to perish on the roadside. In consequence frenzied poor men shot a few of the vilest of the land-agents and landlords. At the opening of the Parliament in January '46, Queen Victoria, addressing her 'Lords and Gentlemen' observed, with deep regret, the fearful situation In Ireland-adding-'It will be our duty to consider whether any measure can be devised, calculated to give peace and protection for life there.'

    The simple reader, who knows not the way of the British with Ireland, would here naturally come to the conclusion that the tender-hearted gentlewoman, full of sympathy... was directing her Parliament to try to save a multitude of lives. But this would be a mistaken conclusion. She was here referring to the handful of Anglo-Irish landlords and agents, whose lives must solicitously be protected whilst, in trying times, they were endeavouring to hack and hew their usual pound of flesh from the walking skeletons in the bogs and mountains of Ireland. Some of these thoughtless ones were in danger of slaying a landlord rather than see him slay their famished wife, or hollow-eyed children. Hence the good Queen advised her 'Lords and Gentlemen' that a stringent Coercion Bill was needed, and must be provided to relieve the unfortunate conditions prevailing in Ireland. [3]
    [3]-Notes: Among other benefits which the excellent Bill proposed to confer upon the suffering people, it rendered liable to fourteen years transportation away for anyone found out of his own house after the sun set in the evening and before it arose in the morning. In the operation of this beneficial Act many things occurred, that to an outsider might seem strange. For instance John Mitchell records such happenings as that of a quiet respectable farmer, who on a summer evening, when the sun was near setting, strolled a short way down the road to pay his working-men and walking back when the sun had just sunk-though it was still broad daylight-was arrested for heinous crime against 'the Queen and Constitution of this realm.'" (6)

    Hitler had to pay his guards just like the Turks who made the first fenced concentration camps around this time (for the care of the Armenians). Of course the ghettoes were a form of concentration camp that cost the administrative countries that had Jews a very little amount of money. This was especially true when they were inclined periodically to dispossess them of their treasure. The Romish churchians had learned the benefits of not being an Empire and having to share the booty with the citizens of Rome in earlier times. Christianity should be studied as the pre-eminent marketing plan of this whole era we call 'his'-story. Is there a possibility that the Jews and the Irish are a threat to someone for something to do with history? Is it their inclination to regard Jesus as a man who preached truths like the divinity and freedom of each soul while on Earth? You would have to study what went on at the Synod of Whitby in 664 AD in order to get a feel for the reason the date of Easter had to be changed and to know the Celtic Church and their monastic Orders like Iona (in the Emerald Isles and in places like the Greek Islands) were a real threat to Rome. Then you would know the Jewish and Irish perception that Jesus was a prophet and not a Messiah was part of it.

    The Irish were hounded and pursued, ridiculed and beat upon in all ways or methods available to man. In America as indentured slaves or Civil War soldiers they were worse off than the blacks or Chinese. Over the course of a long time they lost even the bulk of their verbal tradition. The Ossianic tales and legends bear close scrutiny despite what Hume and Gibbon have written. Taliesin was more of a fabricator or fancy and Frank Lloyd Wright was enamoured of him. It is worth noting the status of the blacks in the Christian church as well as the excellent civil rights record of this church that has been the dominant force in Western society through all the Crusades and other heretical inquisitions and divisive tactics. Gradualistic god-guided 'chosen ones' who reach rapture or the Goff, due to their elitist prejudices are soon going to get their karmic due I hope. The cells of cultural adepts like the de Danaan are getting more support as archaeology uncovers things like Gimbutas' Old European alphabet even if the gods of archaeology cling to Sumer like they did to Clovis. Richard Rudgely isn't the only one to notice if things don't fit the prevailing theory they require different standards or are thought to be a hoax. His credentials are impeccable just as were Campbell's and Gimbutas'.

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