Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: Lawrence of Arabia, Kemal Ataturk

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Lawrence of Arabia, Kemal Ataturk

    Due to the current state of affairs including the ISIS/ISIL terror sweeping Europe after the US let their spiritual leader gain converts in a prison camp before letting him go free, thinking he presented no threat, we have to ask many questions. Firstly you should ask if any person dissented from the opinion to let him go and whether in fact he was not a person they wanted to sow the very seeds of unrest which will guarantee continued war and weapons spending. It would not be the first time such a thing happened, not by any stretch of the imagination.

    Secondly you need to know it is not just the Sephardic Jewish Donmeh who are involved in Kabbalah and esoteric Jewish thought, the Masons are. Thus we need to deal first with Mustafa Kemal Ataturk who brought the end to the Ottoman Empire and founded Turkey as we know it today. I am leaving the Armenian genocide which we have dealt with elsewhere out of this for this thread. I present the information of a meeting between Lawrence and Ataturk leading to his being considered a British agent. He is also a Mason, which unlike many people who report these historical facts, I don't say that proves anything except that he was interested in learning and networking. You can also read in this site about Churchill approving the use of gas against the Mesopotamians when he was the Colonial Secretary; and how the US gave Saddam such WMDs which were used on Kurds and Iranians. Yes, I also detail more in-depth things about Masonic hierarchies and certain adept individuals in or derived therefrom.

    "British Agents Mustafa Kemal and T.E. Lawrence together (They knew each other)

    T.E. Lawrence & Mustafa Kemal

    Source: Lawrence of Arabia, by J Wilson
    page 558:

    Kemal was held briefly by the Arabs and interrogated by Lawrence before being released. Kemal had been corresponding with Faisal for several months, and the Arab Nationalists saw his Pan-Turk party as a potential ally. As a prisoner, he would have been in no position to further their cause. Some years after the war, Lawrence told a Foreign Office official that "by a curious accident he was able, in September 1918, to have several conversations with Mustafa Kemal Pasa."

    Lawrence recalled that they had talked, among other things, about Turkish war aims and the aspirations of the Pan-Turk party. His statement gave the gist of these conversations in considerable detail. Kemal had told him that Turkey's real interests lay to the east. They had entered the war primarily to gain territory in Persia, Muslim Trans-Caucasia, and so on. He had confirmed that the Pan-Turks were not interested in the Arab Provinces: Palestine, Syria, Mesopotamia were not only valueless in the Pan-Turkish scheme of things(except in certain strategical aspects relating to the war) but would be positive dangers and encumbrances if they remained in Turkish possession. The Pan-Turks, he declared, would lose them without a regret; they would even be glad to be rid of them.

    Although Kemal was a high-ranking enemy officer, the Arab leaders saw him as their best hope for future relations with Turkey, and with Lawrence's agreement he was released.

    Both Faisal and Lawrence were later to be staunch supporters of Kemal during his struggle for control in Turkey and for international recognition."

    I am averse to anti-Semitism but I am also averse to ignorance of the Halakah and who the elites are who are involved in playing people against each other. I side with truth and transparency including history and ecumenicism as the best means to overcome the racist agenda including genocidal wars and worse. The above site has more than enough dogma and disgusting data I am no fan of. This is another part of the stuff they are saying - and you should know it if, like Woolsey and Bennett who are important US opinion makers in the early part of this millennium, you want to bring Peace and not further de-stabilization to the region.

    "One of the essential characteristics of the religion of Islam is its insistence that when a people recognize Allah Most High as 'sovereign' (al-Malik) then they must ensure that the State and all its institutions submit to Allah's supreme authority and supreme law. If the State, rather than Allah, is recognized as sovereign, and that is the essence of the secularism, Islam declares such to be Shirk (blasphemy) and that is the greatest sin possible.

    Around the world today the modern secular State is universally recognized as sovereign. Its authority is recognized as supreme, and so too its law. And so, around the world today mankind is now embraced by a universal political Shirk (blasphemy). This is, in fact, one of the major signs that we now live in the age of Dajjal, the false Messiah or Anti-Christ, who deceived mankind into worshipping other than Allah Most High. He, Dajjal, is the mastermind behind today's world order about which the Hadith declares that 999 out of every 1000 will enter into the hellfire. But even Muslims seem to be unaware of this.

    This book is a part of a larger unpublished work on the Organisation of Islamic Conference. It documents and exposes the complicity of the Saudi-Wahabi alliance in the fall of the Khilafate and the subsequent obstacles imposed to prevent the re-establishment of the Khilafat. Required reading for Muslims who are seeking to make sense of the world today."

    The link below is focused on the present situation in Syria if you need to connect history to the present.

    Turkey and Syria Intervention: Sow the Wind, Reap the Whirlwind (Yusuf Kanli, Turkey, 09/05/13)

    The September 2014 issue of Smithsonian magazine has an interesting article on T. E. Lawrence, his conflicted history (as a pawn for the British monarchy or a true leader of the Arab people) and his relevance today. The text surrounds an interview by the author, Scott Anderson (The Man Who Tried to Save the World: The Dangerous Life and Mysterious Disappearance of an American Hero, The Story of Fred Cuny, 2000), with Shiek Khaled Suleiman al-Twoun, a leader of Mudowarra, Jordan. The article is a biography and a battle history, set in the greater context of WWI, particularly the 1919 Treaty of Versailles which officially ended the war. While Winston Churchill eulogized T. E. Lawrence as "one of the greatest beings alive in our time," among people of the Middle East there is discord over whether Lawrence worked for an "Arab Nation for Arab People" or for Britain. .
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-12-2016 at 10:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    There are so many things we can learn from Ataturk in how we should encourage change in the middle east. I think we made a huge mistake not getting behind Nasser's plan to unite all Arab people. Freedom for the women is high on the list of things he did - through education. It will not be as easy with his cousins to the south. When men see how much better their own lives become through equality they can become the rational and devoted people they need to be. Women who are free will spend less time doing counter-productive acts which demean each other and their children who are all sexes or genders and proclivities thereof.

    "by Ezgi & Fatih from Adana, Turkey

    Once upon a time, there was a land which was occupied by many countries. People had bad days under a dark sky. A man came out. He said “ my people should be independent.” He was like the sun. He appeared and the black clouds disappeared. He wrote a national legend with the people who believed him. People believed him because he was a good leader; strong, determined, planned, disciplined.

    He became a pioneering model to many emerging countries. After the independence war, he created a new country, The Republic of Turkey, which is modern, democratic and secular.

    He was born in Salonika in 1881 and died in 1938. He did not live long, but he did a lot of things which have life-long effects. He made a lot of reforms in all fields of life; education, health, economy, politics, industry, agriculture, transportation, social life, culture, music theatre, cinema. He himself formed a new alphabet, adopted from the Latin one. He travelled round the country and taught the people to read and write. The rate of the literate in the country increased swiftly. He took education as important as The Republic. He wanted the children to learn science, literature, art and music. He made clothing reforms. So women stopped wearing black veils and started to wear modern clothes. Men wore hats not fez. With the reforms of Ataturk, Turkish women, who had been neglected for centuries, were given new rights, including the right to vote and be voted. They had the same rights as men.

    He loved children most. He tried to spend time with them whenever he could. He presented them with a festival which is unique in the world because he thought they are the future of the world. So every year on the 23rd April, many children from other countries come to Turkey to celebrate 'The National Sovereignty and The Children Festival. My country becomes like a big garden of many colourful flowers.

    Ataturk is my hero because he didn't hesitate to devote his life to his country. Because of the things he had done, I can breath freely in my own country. I can go to a school and study many subjects as other students in the world do. I can wear the clothes I am wearing now. So I am grateful to him."

    Of course this is pandering propaganda but there is truth in it, and we can help to bring such truth to all people. As Lawrence said - "To have news value is to have a tin can tied to one's tail."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-12-2016 at 11:13 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Some excellent insights from Wikipedia show us that long after the war Lawrence should have had a role in forming policy for the region.

    "The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honor. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiques are belated, insincere, incomplete. Things have been far worse than we have been told, our administration more bloody and inefficient than the public knows. It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure. We are today not far from a disaster. "Report on Mesopotamia" The Sunday Times (22 August 1920)

    Whether they are fit for independence or not remains to be tried. Merit is no qualification for freedom. Bulgars, Afghans, and Tahitans have it. Freedom is enjoyed when you are so well armed, or so turbulent, or inhabit a country so thorny that the expense of your neighbour's occupying you is greater than the profit. "Letter to the Editor" The Times (22 July 1920)

    This death’s livery which walled its bearers from ordinary life was sign that they have sold their wills and bodies to the State: and contracted themselves into a service not the less abject for that its beginning was voluntary. The Revolt in the Desert (1927) Ch. 35"

    I am often reminded of Chinese Gordon when I think of Lawrence. Perhaps it is because they were people who stood up against the 'machine' or military fools exemplified by Kitchener who happened to be in charge of them both at least for a while. Here we have a little description about Lord Kitchener and a rumour of sorts about him getting 'deep sixed' as they say.

    "By the time of his appointment as war secretary, Kitchener had already served as consul-general in Egypt and commanded the army in India. Most famously, he was “the Sudan machine”, the man who had crushed the massive force of Islamists which had risen in the desert against the British empire and beheaded another imperial hero, the romantic, half-mad General Charles Gordon of Khartoum. After a retaliatory campaign in 1898 (more slaughter than combat), Kitchener had led his punitive expedition into Omdurman riding on a white charger surrounded by kilted Highlanders. There he set up his machine guns on the plain and mowed down 11,000 spear-carrying “dervishes” in their long, patched smocks, for the loss of a mere 48 officers and men. Soon, his moustache was the personification of empire, emblazoned on biscuit tins, buttons and postcards.

    The famous Kitchener recruiting poster: his efforts garnered enough volunteers to see Britain through the early stages of the war

    So, even though he had several times said that he would rather sweep the streets than have a job in the War Office, when war broke out in 1914, K was immediately appointed war secretary. The Times reflected the popular mood, writing: “We need hardly say with what profound satisfaction and relief we hear of Lord Kitchener’s appointment.” The new war secretary was no bonehead and quickly delivered himself of the hugely significant judgment that, far from being over by Christmas, the fighting would last for years. He recognised at once that Britain’s small professional army – vastly outnumbered by the conscript forces of continental Europe – would need to be multiplied in size many times. The war would be won, he said, by “the last million men”.

    The Cabinet table was an odd place for a man who despised politicians. And by 1916, many of them were coming to despise him, too. Thousands of lives had been lost in the doomed Gallipoli adventure, and Kitchener carried the can, too, for a calamitous cock-up in the supply of artillery shells in the spring of 1915. In a true pots-and-kettles observation, the new minister of munitions, David Lloyd George, castigated his managerial style by likening Kitchener to “one of those revolving lighthouses which radiates momentary gleams of revealing light far out into the surrounding gloom and then suddenly relapses into complete darkness”. Two years into the war, Prime Minister Herbert Asquith felt able to reduce Kitchener’s responsibilities but dared not cast him completely aside. A motion in the House of Commons in May 1916 sought to reduce his salary by £100, a signal of loss of confidence which the war secretary undermined two days later by appearing before a committee of MPs in his field-marshal’s dark-blue undress uniform: his apparent frankness and his colossal reputation won them round. The electorate loved him and the politicians knew it.

    But then came an opportunity to get the man out of the way, for a little while at least.

    Say what you like about the Kaiser, he was good for Orkney, the windswept, sparsely populated islands north of the Scottish mainland. When the German navy threatened Britain, the Orkneys’ huge, protected bay at Scapa Flow provided a vast natural refuge for much of the Royal Navy’s Grand Fleet. This was Kitchener’s destination when, on June 4 1916, he boarded a night train at King’s Cross station in London for the 700-mile journey north to the most northerly town on the British mainland, Thurso. The following morning he crossed to the Scapa anchorage. Here he boarded the armoured cruiser HMS Hampshire to embark upon a secret voyage to Archangel, for talks with Britain’s Russian allies. The tsar was begging for fresh supplies of guns and explosives and Britain was worried whether Russia, which had taken enormous casualties, would have the will to stay the course of the war. Kitchener jumped at the idea of leading a mission of reassurance. As the commander of the Grand Fleet, Admiral John Jellicoe, recalled later, the war secretary “expressed delight at getting away for a time from the responsibilities and cares attaching to his Office”: he seemed almost to think of his mission as something of a holiday."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-12-2016 at 11:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I am not sure which of the theories about Kitchener's death that I believe. I doubt the one about his Freemason friends for sure, I find the last theory presented enough to laugh or at least chuckle. But I must admit the one about the people of Orkney being prevented from assisting the drowning seamen has a ring of authenticity.

    "Kitchener’s ship was said to have struck a mine laid by the newly launched German U-boat U-75 and sank west of the Orkney Islands. Kitchener, his staff, and 643 of the crew of 655 were drowned or died of exposure. His body was never found. The survivors who caught sight of him in those last moments testified to his outward calm and resolution. Locals in Orkney, however, tell a different and quite disturbing story. They say that, when they were woken that night by the terrible sounds of a wrecked ship and drowning men, they did their utmost to help. However, their efforts were hindered – by whom, it is not entirely clear. What is beyond dispute is that, during his controversial life, Kitchener made no shortage of enemies. Consequently, when news of his death spread, among the heartfelt obituaries and widespread outpourings of genuine grief, there were more than a few who had cause to be happy that Kitchener was gone.

    Kitchener was a soldier and imperialist to the core – one of the main reasons why the British Empire was feared at its height. But he was never an easy man to get on with. His term as Commander-in-Chief (1902–09) of the Army in India saw him quarrel with the Viceroy Lord Curzon, who eventually resigned. Kitchener’s campaign in Khartoum in particular was marked by a brutal efficiency which earned him the moniker ‘The Machine of the Sudan’. It was said even among his own soldiers that Kitchener was a man without a soul. It was under his command that British forces imprisoned Boer civilians in concentration camps during the Boer War. Shortly before Kitchener’s death during the First World War, he was blamed for the shortage of shells in the spring of 1915 and stripped of his control over munitions and strategy. It is perhaps unsurprising, in light of all this, that after his death there were no shortage of candidates willing to step forward to take responsibility for ending his life.

    Foremost among these was Frederick Joubert Duquesne, a Boer soldier and spy, who claimed that he had assassinated Kitchener after an earlier attempt to kill him in Cape Town failed. Duquesne’s story was that he posed as the Russian Duke Boris Zakrevsky in 1916 and joined Kitchener in Scotland. While on board HMS Hampshire with Kitchener, Duquesne supposedly signalled a German submarine that then sank the cruiser, and was rescued by the submarine, later being awarded the Iron Cross for his efforts. This far-fetched story is almost universally derided as wish-fulfillment by an attention-seeker. Another popular theory – that the Hampshire did not strike a mine at all, but was sunk by explosives secreted in the vessel by Irish Republicans – has similarly been discredited because there is not a shred of evidence to support it (although it is admittedly equally hard to disprove, for the same reason). The German General Erich Ludendorff stated that Russian communist elements working against the Tsar had betrayed Kitchener’s travel plans to Germany. He stated that Kitchener was killed “because of his ability”, as it was feared he would help the Tsarist Russian Army to recover and for this reason had to be disposed of at all costs.

    The never-ending conspiracy theories and attempts to find a definitive explanation for Kitchener’s death have also had the unexpected side-effect of rehabilitating his reputation to some extent. Some historians now praise his strategic vision in World War I, especially his laying the groundwork for the expansion of munitions production and his central role in the raising of the British army in 1914 and 1915, providing a force capable of meeting Britain’s continental commitment. There are even some who have suggested that Kitchener did not die at all when the Hampshire went down. There are two main theories (both, unfortunately, as crack-brained as the other). One points to Kitchener’s membership of the Freemasons and suggests that his powerful friends in this organization, becoming aware of his many enemies, staged the entire incident for his benefit, so that he could escape them for good. The second theory (which is sometimes regarded as an extension of the first) points to the strange facial familiarity between Josef Stalin and Lord Kitchener. It is suggested that, when he escaped the wreck of the Hampshire (with or without the assistance of the Freemasons), Kitchener took on a new identity as the Russian communist leader. Bizarre as this theory may be, there is no denying that there is an uncanny resemblance between the pair…"

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    The region we call Turkey today was important before the Black Sea was created in 5300 BCE. We have Catal Hayuk, Catal Alicia, Gobekli Tepi and Smyrna archaeology to attest to these statements. What archaeology finds in the era just after the great meteor hit in 8350 BCE will reflect a lot less on what was there or elsewhere in the world before the millennia or more of nuclear winter and tidal waves destruction which occurred as a result of the earthquakes, volcanoes and diseases which followed that event.

    Although there was no Noah's Ark of such proportion as Ron Wyatt or other myth-making money-grubbing liars tell us, it is entirely possible that the people went to the mountains to survive the early cataclysm mentioned. So it is interesting to see some artifacts might exist on the mythical Mr. Ararat. The other interesting event which history recounts in the Mahabharata (Which includes my clan name Bharat or BRD - as I have detailed in translation.) sees men of the north coming into the sub-continent and waging war or immigrating to their emporiae and colonies. Was this when the Black Sea event occurred as many Indian scholars say? I am certain it was not when the European colonial forces in history say it was (1500 BCE is a Trojan War era event and can be connected thereto.). But it is possible all three dates had such northern incursions and that is my preferred explanation.

    The other area of great involvement in all of this is the Taklamakand Desert, Urumchi, Altaic Mountain region (and other names) which Clyde Winters linguistically shows is connected to India (Bharat) through trade in the early eras and I show is connected to Troy from the book Mummies of Urumchi. It is a likely location for the Hindu motherland location called Mt. Meru. That connects with Harappa to Dwarka and every one of these events as well. Gene Matlock explains Dwarka Mohenjo, Ilavarta or Harappa as a Phoenician origin and colonizing area which I agree it is, but I say the Ainu predate his Phoenicians and I go back even before there were white people in my explanations. I use different but connected linguistics and archaeology, it does not matter which of us is right. No doubt there is much more proof to be found and satellite imaging systems have already found a lot on the Silk Roads and near Angkor Wat which does connect. DNA is my greatest support now, and I expect more will come to show the important connections between Ainu who we now know colonized the whole Pacific including the Americas; and what Churchward called Mu (not a separate continent) and Mayax.

    Sutton and his book showing the connection between Hitler and Rothschild bankers is quoted by racist haters who do not know the Rothschilds prey on Jews and have for at least five millennia and they wrote the Bible to give themselves the monopoly on usury and share other money with their elite friends.

    These racist haters will never learn or read the Halakah which establishes the hierarchy and who can (by law) do what to whom. Some are beginning to see how almost every genocide is attributable to elites except the ones their sometimes friends do to them. The Cathar era is a study in Hegelian play, and Rome or Empire, to beat any moral person to a near death state. But few study it anyway.

    Here is Jeff Rense quoting one such racist fool who will not learn. He says John Kerry is guilty for his role in Vietnam where he spoke out avidly against atrocities. It is so bad an example of what fools will believe I would laugh - except it is not funny.


    How Labor Zionists Sacrificed
    Europe's Jews In WWII
    Kerry, Gaza And The New Sabbatean Holocaust
    By Barry Chamish
    [email protected].i

    In the first week of February 2004, two related incidents occurred in Israel and America. Prime Minister Sharon announced his decision to evacuate the Jewish residents of Gaza and John Kerry won enough primaries to just about settle the issue of who will be the Democratic Party candidate in the upcoming American elections.

    Here are a few less than publicized facts about Kerry:

    - He is a graduate, like both President Bushes, of the occultic Yale University cabal, the Skull And Bones Society. So whoever Americans vote for, they get the same secret society determining their lives. {This is a low level cult - but there is truth in this.}

    - Kerry, like Howard Dean, Wesley Clark and Joe Leiberman are all members of the Council On Foreign Relations (CFR). So whoever Americans choose to be the Democratic candidate, they will get the same CFR agenda.

    - The well publicized CFR agenda insists on Israel withdrawing from Gaza, Judea and Samaria and half of Jerusalem, making Israel unviable as a state. To that end, like Dean before him, Kerry has promised to appoint Jimmy Carter (CFR) or Bill Clinton (CFR) as his administration's Middle East advisor.

    - Not that Kerry will receive any new advice from either of them, since his campaign manager is Alan Solomant, an executive of Peace Now - America.

    - Kerry is being protected from exposure of the ugly crime of participating in a massacre in Viet Nam. {A total lie as noted already.}

    - But as his prominence grew, so did the investigation of his past. And what did we recently discover; why Kerry is Jewish on his father's side. Somehow, he forgot the fact that his grandparents were prominent Jewish business people in Prague and that his father is 100% Jewish. Ask yourself, do you know anyone who doesn't know his father's religious background?

    As rare as it must be, that affliction runs rampant in CFR circles. Former CFR Secretary-of-State Madeleine Albright also forget that both her parents were Jews, even though she was raised in the Jewish home of her relatives in London.

    If you don't feel like voting Kerry, there is Wesley Clark waiting in the wings. Uncannily, he is also a CFR member who only discovered his father was Jewish while he was burning Bosnia to ashes.

    Now how come, no matter which Democrat you choose, you get a CFR half-Jew who forgot all about it? The answer is found in the Sabbatean (also Shabbataian and similar spellings) policy of having their Jewish apostate followers converting and hiding their roots and beliefs. {He contradicts himself and is raving.}

    Allow me to quickly summarize Sabbateanism/Frankism:

    In my previous article, The Deutsch Devils, I revealed {Revealed how the Zevi character converted to Islam is all. It was just as bad as this so called scholarship.}the findings of Rabbi Antelman in his books To Eliminate The Opiate Volumes I and II. His focus is the false messiah Shabtai Zvi, and the continuation of his evil ministry through the Turkish sect called the Donmeh. In the eighteenth century, Jacob Frank brought the Donmeh ideology to Europe and joined a fateful alliance. This was described in the article as:

    Frankfurt at the time was the headquarters of the Jesuit, Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Illuminati, as well as Rothschild Brothers' financial empire. This is worth repeating: Frankfurt was the birthplace of both the Illuminati and the Rothschild empire. {It was not! It was at William of Hesse's castle. And that is not the Illuminati - it is just the Bavarian Illuminati.} When Jacob Frank entered the city, the alliance between the two had already begun. Weishaupt provided the conspiratorial resources of the Jesuit Order, while the Rothschilds contributed the money. What was missing was a means to spread the agenda of the Illuminati and that the Frankists added with their network of agents throughout the Christian and Islamic worlds.

    Jacob Frank became instantly wealthy because he was given a nice handout by the Rothschilds of Frankfurt. There is no other explanation.

    And from this starting point, Rabbi Antelman gave us a blueprint for the war against Judaism and all its good, and indeed against humanity and all its moral treasures. A movement of complete evil now took hold. The Jesuits' goal was the destruction of the Protestant Reformation leading to a return of one pope sitting in judgement on all mankind. The Rothschilds goal was to control the wealth of the planet. And the Frankist vision was the destruction of Jewish ethics to be replaced by a religion based on the exact opposite of God's intentions. When these factions blended, a bloody war against humanity, with the Jews on the front lines, erupted and it is reaching its very pinnacle at this moment."

    It is important in that it explains a little of the Donmeh connection which can also be connected to what happened recently in the Balkans which the Bogomil/Cathars. What the author calls the opposite of God's intentions requires psychiatric analysis but suffice it to say, yes, there is some truth in it too. Kabbalists do utilize forces we all can use if we study, and they have been part of every major religion, I ask you to see the work of Malachi Martin who consulted on it for three Popes of the 20th Century.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-14-2016 at 04:46 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Archaeology provides a link to Lawrence at the famous train attack.

    "In the decades since Lawrence published the memoir “Seven Pillars of Wisdom” describing his wartime experiences, critics have accused him of exaggerating or even falsifying his participation in certain events. For instance, some biographers have said he embellished his role in the Hallat Ammar train ambush, recognized by historians as a clash that helped define tactics used in modern guerilla warfare.

    But now, archaeologists have discovered a piece of evidence that appears to place Lawrence at the scene of the ambush. It’s not quite a “smoking gun,” but it’s the next best thing — a bullet fired from a Colt 1911 automatic pistol, a gun that Lawrence was known to have carried."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-18-2016 at 07:07 PM.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts