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Thread: Gospel of Judas

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Gospel of Judas

    When Nat Geo found and restored the so-called Gospel of Judas there was a hue and cry in the obvious circles in Rome. They do not like people who wrote a Gospel they did not write. Their own account is flawed however and it actually makes it appear this account written before Irenaeus on 180 AD already existed. This makes it right around the time Rome was putting the wraps on their propaganda blaming Jews and Gnostics for things the Romans had supposedly done. Yes, that is the normal course of what we call history. The bulk of scholars now question the authorship of Acts being the work of Paul and you can check into many other lies proven regarding this Roman who actually was an assassin of Stephen and attempted to have James (older brother of Yeshua) killed. He is a proven liar and we have threads addressing his obvious lies. Judas (if the myth of Gethsemane is true) might have been the only apostle who thought Jesus was the son of God. He would have reasoned God would dispatch the Romans for killing his 'only-begotten' and thus took the shekels and laughed at having set the Romans up for a great demonstration of God's power.

    The Romans did crucify many people and even though they may have crucified Yeshua I think he and his wife Mary knew how to fake death and escaped. That means what about the so-called resurrection vison on the road to Damascus? And the whole Salvation myth which has made so much lucre for the despots all falls down. But that is a much longer and well-researched report replete with facts. So let us get to the meat of my disgust.

    "Were the first Christians really split between pro- and anti-Judas camps, each with radically different teachings? Did the Bible and the people who chose its books deliberately exclude a legitimate tradition about Jesus' teachings? Should the Church re-open the canon of the Bible and add another Gospel? Of course not, but let's consider the context of the Gospel of Judas itself.

    Problems of Dating and Style

    Thirty or more years ago, an ancient codex or collection of manuscripts that included the Gospel of Judas was discovered in Egypt. After years on the black market, the National Geographic Society was able to acquire and restore this fragile artifact. The Gospel text is in Coptic, a language commonly used in ancient Egypt. We are fairly certain that it was written in the 3rd or 4th century AD.

    We are also quite certain that the Coptic manuscript is a translation of a 2nd-century Greek composition. {Did someone even check this - how do they say in the sentence following that it was written in the 3rd or older century with this?} There are many good reasons for this date, of which we will mention two for the moment. First, the Gospel of Judas refers to a well-known account from the Book of Acts: Judas' replacement after his death (Acts 1:15-26). While it's not impossible that the account came from a source other than Acts, since the rest of the evidence points to the 2nd century for the composition of the Gospel of Judas, it is probable that it was taken from the Book of Acts. Since the Book of Acts was probably written between 80 and 100 AD, the Gospel of Judas would therefore have been written after that time. Second, the early Christian bishop, St. Irenaeus, refers to the Gospel of Judas in his Treatise Against Heresies (Book 1, chapter 31). He also accurately describes two of its central claims about Judas. Irenaeus wrote his book about 180 AD, so the Gospel of Judas was likely written between 100 and 180. Many other historical facts that we will mention below confirm that this Gospel was first written in the 2nd century. Of course, this also means that Judas did not compose or dictate it.

    Also, when we think of the term "Gospel," we think of a long, complex biography about Jesus with many stories and discourses. But the Gospel of Judas is much shorter (only seven single-spaced pages) and quite different in style. It begins during the last weeks of Jesus' life, three days before his last Passover. The Gospel of Judas gives us some dialogue between Jesus and his disciples. But the bulk of the text presents Jesus' monologues to Judas revealing the greatest secrets of the universe. The style already suggests that we are far from the religious world of the Bible."

    Which Roman paid for the authorship of Acts by Luke or Lucan or a liar like Josephus should not matter one iota. The likelihood that the Gospel of Judas was written after Acts is important only because it illustrates there were many fictions being written and words put in the mouths of the possible apostles. (All dead at this time)

    Acharya S. is a doctor of Divinity or religious studies whose work I find honest and fair.


    Creative impulses seem much more
    Than what humans seek to store
    If we see where it comes from
    Will it make our minds succumb?
    To things perceived, not understood
    To put it simply – just be good
    Trite expressions, clichéd nomenclature
    Jargon, ‘New Age’, anaphoristic vernacular
    Perhaps better than the past priesthood
    We must vigilantly live with ‘Brotherhood’.

    No one is better deep within
    Enable everyone to chin
    Way up!
    Feel the heavens creative sway
    Do not focus on one day
    Bring men past mediocrity
    Allow all women to be free.

    Our science brings us closer yet
    To G-d in truth, I’ll make a bet
    Eschew the callous callow leeches
    Who cull the Earth as they beseech us
    As Jesus said it is ‘within’
    Buddha surely agreed with him
    Let’s end the denominational prejudices
    Accept there is only one true Path
    End the endless expressing of wrath
    Based on stupid religious differences!

    Perhaps a thought from humors lie, or no thought in it does cry.

    "What hour it was I cannot certainly tell; philosophers will agree more often than clocks; but it was between midday and one after noon. "Clumsy creature!" you say. "The poets are not content to describe sunrise and sunset, and now they even disturb the midday siesta. Will you thus neglect so good an hour?"" - Lucius Seneca
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-07-2016 at 01:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    This is a post from the thread on the historical Jesus. There are many other threads on this man/myth.

    We have a thread on many scholars saying Know Rome = Know Jesus which establishes Rome authored a propaganda program to cover it's ass in case Christianity grew useful. They also could wrap a whole new Empire up in a nice sounding rap which they would not have to share as much of the rewards, women, power and other things from whence eventually came great bounty. My books cover the point of what is real and good about the family of Jesus (Merovingians) but this thread will not quote my books or thoughts a great deal. For more on origins of Christianity and the family of Jesus you can read threads like this.

    This is the kind of thing we should address in this thread. The chart includes many authors I have quoted including Eisenmann and Hyam Maccoby.

    "Historical Jesus Theories: Comparison Chart

    Modern historians have differentiated between the "historical Jesus" (what can be known about Jesus from academic historical study) and the "Christ of faith" (what can be known about Jesus through faith and theology) and attempted to discover the nature and teachings of the historical Jesus.

    The following chart provides a summary of the main “theories of the historical Jesus” and those who teach them (including those who believe the historical Jesus and the Christ of faith to be one and the same), listed in alphabetical order by author.

    It is important to note that although the authors are listed equally in this chart, not all have equal credentials or expertise, and some are not academics at all."

    It has been nice to have a positive role model named Jesus but it is even better to learn what he did and why his message is still relevant today. In order to do what he wanted we must know more than the liars have put into his mouth, I say. Some of the lies smell sweet and provide great fortunes for those who put those sweet-sounding verses into your heart and mind. But like most people who say they know Jesus, I say I have lived his life. However, I am not a Christian and obviously there was no such religion as Yeshua grew up and became a wise man like many in his family since Melchizedek, David and Sol - o - moon. I am going to stay on topic and not get into who this family was in the many millennia I know they were important. I am not even going to address the Halakah or other laws of his people - except to say Mishnah requires a teacher (Rabbi) to be married and not at all meek. Meek people will have to return to learn until they get it right, if you believe in ego re-incarnating for normal people, I do not. I am told the whole 'meek shall inherit the Earth' verse was improperly translated anyway. It was 'Mensch' and a 'mensch' is strong and loyal with the strength to give and to fight as the situation called for. Yeshua was a 'mensch' as the scholars mostly agree. He may not however, have been the bandit or zealot that Josephus wanted his Roman friends, who paid him well, to believe. Surely James the Righteous and likely older brother of Yeshua was part of the amalgam or myth we will consider. I like what many of these scholars say, including Marcus Borg.

    "Marcus J. Borg

    "A spirit person, subversive sage, social prophet, and movement founder who invited his followers and hearers into a transforming relationship with the same Spirit that he himself knew, and into a community whose social vision was shaped by the core value of compassion."

    Jesus did not believe he was the Messiah, nor did he regard "the supernatural coming of the Kingdom of God as a world-ending event in his own generation."

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time (1995) "

    Stephen Davies gives us an insight to a more magical adept who people gave ever-increasing power to, probably you have gone fishing and heard about the BIG one. This g-d projection and production is truly the BIG, BIGGER and BIGGEST one of all time.

    "A "spirit-possessed" healer who was possessed by the "Spirit of God," by which he performed his healings.

    Jesus' followers came to think of him as divine by identifying him with the Spirit of God that had possessed him.

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    Jesus the Healer: Possession, Trance, and the Origins of Christianity (1995)"

    Earl Doherty and most serious people know there is a whole lot of myth in the story, and yes, there are some wise things attributed to him. John 10:34 says "Ye are gods." and the Dag Hammadi Scrolls are closer to this kind of vision of the man or myth. They did not have two millennia of copywriters messing with them.

    The Bart Ehrman fellow surely is preaching to the choir in his Bible belt homeland. Maybe someone can tell me how a prophet who only has a few years in his prophecy for mankind to live keeps being quoted after a period of two thousand years. Bart rhymes with another explosive force with not so sweet smells. I do know these pulpit-pounders can speak out of every orifice all at once, but this is a rue four part harmony, he may even need to get the handcup under the arm in the pits going.

    "An apocalyptic prophet who expected the imminent end of the world.

    The teachings of Jesus are an "interim ethic" intended to apply to the short period of under a generation between the time of Jesus and the end of the age. Elements of realized eschatology in some of the gospels are a softening of Jesus' original message.

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium (1999)"

    Eisenmann fits the mold of Rome created a fiction and even describes Rome's motive as he notes their Jesus is a pacifist which would hopefully not incite riots and revolts.

    "A nationalistic Jew of insurrectionist bent.

    Jesus' teachings were continued by James the Just, but "Jamesian Christianity" was played down by the Gospels, which are pro-Gentile, pro-Roman fictions which deliberately portray Jesus as a pacifistic, spiritual Messiah. Jesus and Paul are also identified with figures in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    Main work on the Historical Jesus:
    James the Brother of Jesus (1998)"

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    One of my good accounts in Los Angeles was the colleges at Claremont. Ms. Dawson-Gonzales and I often chatted about many things. Here we have a source on scrolls I consider to be more important than the Dead Sea Scrolls as far as religion is concerned, Marvin Meyer and other scholars at Claremont have done good work shedding light on a Jesus with something we can learn from. I suppose this source deserves a thread of it's own. For now however, I have just added it to threads with appropriate commentary.

    "The Gnostic Bible, edited by Barnstone and Meyer

    by Marvin Meyer

    Reproduced by permission from:
    Willis Barnstone & Marvin Meyer, The Gnostic Bible, (Shambalah, 2003), pp. 1-11.


    Know what is in front of your face
    and what is hidden from you
    will be disclosed.

    – Gospel of Thomas

    The gnostics were religious mystics who proclaimed gnosis, knowledge, as the way of salvation. To know oneself truly allowed gnostic men and women to know god directly, without any need for the mediation of rabbis, priests, bishops, imams, or other religious officials. Religious officials, who were not pleased with such freedom and independence, condemned the gnostics as heretical and a threat to the well-being and good order of organized religion. Heresiologists—heresy hunters of a bygone age who busied themselves exposing people judged dangerous to the Christian masses—fulminated against what they maintained was the falsehood of the gnostics. Nonetheless, from the challenge of this perceived threat came much of the theological reflection that has characterized the intellectual history of the Christian church.

    The historical roots of the gnostics reach back into the time of the Greeks, Romans, and Second Temple Jews. Some gnostics were Jewish, others Greco-Roman, and many were Christian. There were Mandaean gnostics from Iraq and Iran; Manichaeans from Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, and all the way to China; Islamic gnostics in the Muslim world; and Cathars in western Europe. The heyday of their influence extends from the second century CE through the next several centuries. Their influence and their presence, some say, continue to the present day."

    Stephan Hoeller has these words to say about extreme early polemicists like those employed by Rome. He also correctly characterizes those who seek to point fingers rather than study. He correctly points our the early authors which are often quoting the Gospels could not in all honesty really say Gnostics were heretical because there was no orthodoxy.

    "The politicized view of Gnosticism continues to have its adherents, but these are increasingly recruited from the lunatic fringe. Gnostics are still represented as dangerous subversives in pulp magazines and obscure conspiracy pamphlets "exposing" Freemasons, Satanists, and other pests. Meanwhile, respectable conservative thinkers have dropped the Gnostic issue. Some, like scholar and former U.S. Senator S.I. Hayakawa, have subjected Voegelin and his theories to severe criticism and ridicule.

    Traditionalist Difficulties

    Another sometimes confusing voice comes from writers who are bent on proving that within the existing major religions a secret tradition of gnosis may be found which is not identical to the "heretical" Gnosticism of the early Christian centuries. In his 1947 work The Perennial Philosophy, Aldous Huxley promulgated a kind of gnosis that was in effect a mystery reserved for elites, revealed at the dawn of history and handed down through various religious traditions, where it still maintains itself in spite of its ostensible incompatibility with the official dogmas of those traditions. With this view, Huxley approximated the more radical position held by Traditionalists such as René Guénon and Frithjof Schuon.

    Huxley, on the other hand, never passed judgment on anyone who called himself a Gnostic. One could only wish the same could be said of other Traditionalists. Followers of Guénon (who, born a Catholic, converted to Islam in a somewhat untraditional manner) often castigate the early Gnostic teachers in a manner reminiscent of the more extreme ancient polemicists like Irenaeus or Tertullian. The Traditionalists' division of Gnostic writers into "false Gnostics" and "authentic Gnostics" reflects standards that are nothing if not arbitrary; contemporary research indicates that during the first three of four centuries A.D. there was as yet no true orthodoxy and thus no heresy either. Instead, many opinions on religious matters, including gnosis, flourished side by side. Certainly there were disagreements, but to arbitrarily extrapolate standards of falsity and authenticity from these polemics does not seem justified."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-14-2016 at 11:17 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    The hits just keep on coming - but the Believers never waver in their rock hard heads with no grey matter. Thus proving their treasured creationist dogma that no growth occurs in human existence - for their kind! Watch out, rapture straight ahead!

    Here is a report about Judas being crucified and Jesus ascending in the usual adept manner.

    It might just happen some day, we might throw off the coils of religious indoctrination into Empire and mind controlling terror and torture of our women and children by demons and Armageddon. It also might not.

    Continuing this biased Gnostic account from Kabbalah which is derivative of the earlier discipline we should pay homage to.

    "These teachings of Jewish Gnosticism (coming from Egypt) were so similar to those of Pagan Gnosticism that many Jews claimed that the great Pagan philosophers had originally received their wisdom from Moses. This condition continued into the Middle Ages. The Zohar, believed written by Moses de Leon in 1305 C.E., claimed to draw on the secret teachings of Simeon Ben Yohai, a rabbi of Galilee in the second century C.E., which were in turn said to have been drawn from the hidden wisdom of Moses. The medieval flowering of Kabbalah in the south of France {Cathars are Gnostic and ecumenical - see my books) in the 13th century was inspired by Jewish Gnostic tradition that had somehow survived from the first centuries (G. Scholem, Origins Of The Kabbalah, 1987). This belief encouraged Jews to enthusiastically embrace the philosophy and mythology of the Pagan Gnostics to augment their own tradition, producing a Miarge number of spiritual treatises which synthesized Pagan and Jewish motifs.

    The spirituality of the Therapeutae and Essenes is an example of this mixture of Jewish and Pagan Gnosticism. As well as being followers of their own Jewish master Moses, they were also followers of the great Pagan philosopher Pythagoras {The Druid}, whose disciples had set up communities throughout the Mediterranean world. The Jewish historian Josephus informs us that the Essenes are comparable to the Pythagoreans (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, 15.371). In creating the Gnostic Jesus Myth these Therapeutae-Essenes drew upon inter-testamental literature which had already been synthesized from Pagan and Jewish mythological motifs. These inter-testamental texts not only echo the Pagan Mysteries but also prefigures Christianity and by so doing forms a bridge between the two. For example motifs that prefigure Christianity are found in the Sibylline Oracles {Druidic priestesses} which look forward to the coming of "the Christ" and the Books of Enoch which anticipate the arrival of the "Son of Man" - a title that will be used to define Jesus in the New Testament.

    Philo, himself known as "the Pythagorean" (Josephus, The Jewish War, 2.8.10). Philo, himself a Pythagorean, describes the Therapeutae as practising "the contemplative life", which was a way of describing Pythagoreans (Clement of Alexandria, Clement of Alexandria, 1919, 1.15.72 and 2.19.100). Philo tells us their wisdom stems from Greece and that "this kind exists in many places in the inhabited world". The "contemplative life" is a term used to describe the life lived in the Pythagorean communities.

    Following the practice of the Cynic school of Pagan Gnosticism, these Jewish Gnostics called their spiritual tradition simply "the Way" - a term also adopted by the original Christians. "The Way" was a phrase used by Essenes, Cynics, and Christians to describe their faith (A. Ellegard, Jesus: One Hundred Years Before Christ, 1999, p. 167).

    Acts 9:2 2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. (KJV)

    Answer for yourself: Are these Therapeuate-Essene-Pythagorean-Jews the earliest Christians we read about in the Book of Acts? It sure would appear so!

    Partly due to Philo's writings, the fourth-century Christian Literalist historian Eusebius saw so many similarities between the Way of the Therapeutae and the Christian Way that he claimed the Therapeutae were amongst the first followers of Christ.

    Answer for yourself: But when did Philo write of these Therapeutae? Before or after Jesus of the New Testament times?

    Philo's description of the Therapeutae was written before the time that Jesus is supposed to have been teaching, so Philo is clearly NOT writing about disciples of an historical Jesus or a historical Messiah, as Eusebius believed. Ironically, Eusebius was probably right nevertheless, albeit in an entirely different way from how he intended. The Essenes and Therapeutae did not follow Jesus. They created him!

    The idea of some sect "making up" the Jesus myth may seem strange today, but this is because we no longer think of myths in the same way as our ancestors did. To us myths are irrelevant fantasies, but the ancients regarded "myths" as profound allegories encoding mystical teachings. Mythical motifs represented philosophical principles. They were an archetypal vocabulary {Memes are not new!} with which to think. Creating new myths was a way of exploring new ideas.

    Reworking old myths and syncretizing them to create new ones was a major preoccupation of the Gnostics. Philo tells us that the Therapeutae were devoted to "philosophizing and interpreting their ancestral scriptures allegorically, for they think that the words of the literal meaning are symbols of a hidden nature which is made plain only by the undermeaning" (Philo, De Sept, 3.4, quoted in W. Kingsland, The Gnosis, 1937, p. 28). Imaginative mythologizing is also what the later Christian Gnostics specialized in. One of their critics condemns them for using "allegorical interpretation" to freely "recompose" Jewish scriptures and "Greek epic mythology" (Epiphanius, Pan., 26.1.4), which are precisely the two sources used to create the myths of Jesus and the Goddess."

    In the millennia before his focus the Gnosis was maintained throughout the Mediterranean in Hermetic teachings by intellectuals who studied Thoth/Hermes or Imhotep/Asklepios (Same system - one Greek - one Roman).
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-29-2016 at 06:53 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    We all know Judas was made into a scape-goat for things the Romans wrote about him. None of us really can say how he behaved or what his innermost thoughts were but no doubt you have had some expert tell you this best educated and only Judean of the apostles was a bad man. He probably thought Yeshua was the immaculate born son of the supreme god of these people (Which one is supreme - is it Spook?) and he was the only one who believed this god would expel the invaders and their wanton ways from his land. Yes, if Rome can write lies I can interpret them. This is why Judas told the Romans where Yeshua could be found - hoping God's wrath would befall them - he being one of the people who was learned in his tribe's Scriptures. You have also heard he did it for some shekels.

    "139:12.2 When Nathaniel met Judas at Tarichea, he was seeking employment with a fish-drying enterprise at the lower end of the Sea of Galilee. He was thirty years of age and unmarried when he joined the apostles. He was probably the best-educated man among the twelve and the only Judean in the Master's apostolic family. Judas had no outstanding trait of personal strength, though he had many outwardly appearing traits of culture and habits of training. He was a good thinker but not always a truly honest thinker. Judas did not really understand himself; he was not really sincere in dealing with himself.

    139:12.3 Andrew appointed Judas treasurer of the twelve, a position which he was eminently fitted to hold, and up to the time of the betrayal of his Master he discharged the responsibilities of his office honestly, faithfully, and most efficiently.

    139:12.4 There was no special trait about Jesus which Judas admired above the generally attractive and exquisitely charming personality of the Master. Judas was never able to rise above his Judean prejudices against his Galilean associates; he would even criticize in his mind many things about Jesus. Him whom eleven of the apostles looked upon as the perfect man, as the "one altogether lovely and the chiefest among ten thousand," this self-satisfied Judean often dared to criticize in his own heart. He really entertained the notion that Jesus was timid and somewhat afraid to assert his own power and authority.

    139:12.5 Judas was a good business man. It required tact, ability, and patience, as well as painstaking devotion, to manage the financial affairs of such an idealist as Jesus, to say nothing of wrestling with the helter-skelter business methods of some of his apostles. Judas really was a great executive, a farseeing and able financier. And he was a stickler for organization. None of the twelve ever criticized Judas. As far as they could see, Judas Iscariot was a matchless treasurer, a learned man, a loyal (though sometimes critical) apostle, and in every sense of the word a great success. The apostles loved Judas; he was really one of them. He must have believed in Jesus, but we doubt whether he really loved the Master with a whole heart. The case of Judas illustrates the truthfulness of that saying: "There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is death." It is altogether possible to fall victim to the peaceful deception of pleasant adjustment to the paths of sin and death. Be assured that Judas was always financially loyal to his Master and his fellow apostles. Money could never have been the motive for his betrayal of the Master.

    139:12.6 Judas was an only son of unwise parents. When very young, he was pampered and petted; he was a spoiled child. As he grew up, he had exaggerated ideas about his self-importance. He was a poor loser. He had loose and distorted ideas about fairness; he was given to the indulgence of hate and suspicion. He was an expert at misinterpretation of the words and acts of his friends. All through his life Judas had cultivated the habit of getting even with those whom he fancied had mistreated him. His sense of values and loyalties was defective."

    Misinterpretation of lies and propaganda does not make him a 'poor loser' in comparison to other losers and not when the lies are raised to the status of Scripture from a g_d.

    Not only was there no Diaspora in the time of Nebuchadnezzar as recent tablets found by archaeology prove; the Benjaminite satrap overlords are documented doing perverse things to the people of Israel in the Bible.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 04-09-2016 at 10:57 AM.

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