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Thread: Gnostic Alchemy

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015

    Gnostic Alchemy

    This will be a thread to reckon with. We will not quote any of the other threads on Gnostics. Most of the scholarship in those threads does not do any real depth work on alchemy other than the psychoanalytical archetypes or discourse about political efforts to maintain the destruction or avoidance of hermetic teachings. Those teachings include consciousness in all things and we might reference sciences today which are proving this is a truth. I will still not copy anything in the Epigenetics, wholistic and other alchemy threads. I think there is enough to make this thread work on it's own with all new materials.

    Drilling into one of their embedded words we have what we need to understand about words like materialistic science and real science which observes in the esoteric tradition from which modern science is born.

    "What is Consciousness?

     Category: Psychology

     Created: 2011

    The modern English term Consciousness is derived primarily from the Latin word conscius, "knowing, aware."

    Philosophers in Western civilization have struggled for centuries to define and understand Consciousness, primarily because they have lacked access to the authentic science of the Consciousness, which has long been preserved in secrecy by the esoteric traditions. It is interesting then, how those traditions have been widely mocked, persecuted and subject to terrible abuses by Western society.

    In recent centuries, Western philosophers attempted to separate their philosophies from religion and mythology, denouncing them, thereby excluding themselves from the greatest Western sources of knowledge about the Consciousness. In Eastern civilizations, the esoteric traditions were considered the pinnacle of society, and were therefore better able to inform the public and its philosophers about the Consciousness and its functions. Additionally, the Eastern traditions never made the fatal mistake of attempting to separate science from religion and myth. This brief history is important, because it underscores a critical divergence of our understanding of Consciousness, and reveals a central cause for the failure of modern theory to unravel the suffering of humanity. Without understanding Consciousness, the problem of suffering cannot be understood, nor changed.

    "Wherever there is life, there exists the Consciousness. Consciousness is inherent to life as humidity is inherent to water." - Samael Aun Weor, Fundamental Notions of Endocrinology and Criminology

    Consciousness Defined

    From various dictionaries:
    1.The state of being conscious; knowledge of one’s own existence, condition, sensations, mental operations, acts, etc.
    2.Immediate knowledge or perception of the presence of any object, state, or sensation.
    3.An alert cognitive state in which you are aware of yourself and your situation.

    Consciousness is the foundational energy of perception.

    Consciousness is the basis upon which we as an existing being either evolve or devolve. Our improvement or degeneration is marked by the state or level of our Consciousness.

    The more elevated or purified our level of Consciousness, the more refined and penetrating our perception. That is why the purest individuals in our histories have also been the wisest and most perceptive, capable of seeing not only into the human heart, but into other dimensions. Conversely, the more degenerated or impure our Consciousness, the more limited and confined is our perception. That is why the most impure individuals are also the most short-sided, foolish, and dangerous.

    All religions were founded in order to encode the science of awakening Consciousness, a process of purification and improvement. Conversely, there exists many traditions that teach how to degenerate the Consciousness by infecting it with impure, selfish, and destructive elements.

    In the esoteric traditions of the Western world, the range of potential Consciousness is allegorized in the Ladder of Jacob, upon which the angels ascend and descend. Thus there are higher and lower levels of Consciousness, from the level of demons at the bottom, to highly realized angels in the heights."

    Those I call BELIEVERS only grasp the allegorical and not the underlying truth.

    Imhotep, Master of Sciences - VOPUS › ... › Great characters of Universal Gnosticism

    This one is Imhotep, doctor, architect and the main chancellor of king Zoser (approx. 3150 BC). ... 'Gnostic Egypt' – Oscar Uzactegui Quintero. Imhotep - ...

    The above link has a spiritual course you can take but it will only get you to where you have a rather egotistical spiritual ignorant viewpoint. I take their own words herewith and point to how they say materialism does not get it and spiritualism does. I say spirituality might be the word they seek in translation. It could be the whole issue I have with it is a matter of imperfect translation. However, when I see their Golden Language is Runic and not Ogham, I think they have only pierced history to Roman times. I have looked further and I find so many errors and appeals to ignorance on all matters including calling Sitting Bull and Apache and supporting the Bulgarian pyramid, I can only warn you or tell you it is BS.

    In their quote you find Goethe (a founder of the Bavarian Illuminati who could be called a true Illuminatus) gets it correct. Black and white answers are for initiates. Grey is the condition of wisdom and sayings such as
    "A fool thinks he is a wise man, a wise man knows he is a fool."
    "The spiritualist trend believes that it, only it, has the truth. The materialist, atheist trend, assumes also that it has the truth. Theories do not serve to anything; we need to be practical and to know through own living the purpose of our existence. Goethe rightly said: 'Any theory is grey, and green is only the tree with golden fruits, that is life'..."

    Yes, and their theory denigrates the pursuits of science and actual observation of "what is". But many are the scientists who are blind to the soul or spiritual reality we have demonstrated in the words of other scientists who know better - see Kaku, Wigner, Heisenberg, Bohm, Bohr, Feynman, Gell-Mann, Zukav and Morowitz etc.

    Nov 5, 2012 - This is a transcription of a lecture originally given live and unscripted on Gnostic Radio. You can download the audio here: audio Alchemy 03 ...

    Alchemical Writings -- The Gnostic Society Library

    The site includes the Gnostic Library, with the complete Nag Hammadi Library and a large ... The site also now has a new location: The Alchemy Website.

    A very good exposure to what Claremont Colleges have. It is interesting to know Clare is "light" and mont is "mountain" so you have in that word the high 'see'-ing or enlightenment.

    The Gnostic Science of Alchemy Chapter One - San Graal

    The Gnostic Science of Alchemy. Part I - from its ... This was indeed the Greek word for alchemy, to which the Arabs added the article, al, of their own language.

    This site is very promising as it begins with an explanation of allegorical statements.

    "According to Zosimus of Panopolis, a fourth century alchemical apologist, the "sons of God" mentioned briefly in Genesis taught the alchemical arts to their human lovers in gratitude for having sex with them. Tertullian, an early Church Father, agreed with this and thought that these "fallen angels," or Nephilim, had the evil intention of seducing human woman with the joys of "mundane pleasures."

    Zosimus was just repeating the accepted wisdom of the Jewish and Christian sages of that era. As he warmed to his subject though, Zosimus related the story of the first alchemist, Chemes, who wrote the teachings of the fallen angels in a book called Chema. The nephilim used this book to instruct the daughters of men in the spagyric arts and therefore the art itself came to be called Chemia. This was indeed the Greek word for alchemy, to which the Arabs added the article, al, of their own language.

    As clever as this explanation is, like all statements in the study of alchemy, it should not be taken too literally. If we take it as a parable wrapped in a fable and disguised as an allegory, we would be closer to the truth."

    Zosimus is even listed as an alchemist by Wikipedia. Here is more.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-17-2016 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Jan 2015
    The truth (contrary to what many Gnostics know or even care to study) is you are going to get on the path to what the family of Jesus has studied since Dolni Vestonici in 27,000 BCE and probably part of far earlier Sidhe traditions. You will also find confirmation of what I have written about in many books on the Cathars.

    You can ask yourself why a man who knew the Catholic Church was a horror show when he lived and preached against them is also part of the Cathar influence - focused on Good Acts (BON HOMMES) rather than avoiding truth, discipline and divine potential assistance for the Providence we have been blessed to be able to harmonize and create. That man named Francis of Assisi has a whole order named after him and the current Pope is in that order. There are many Catholic Saints who the Church has demeaned and put false words into the mouths of, including Yeshua and David or Solomon (some of the Psalms may actually be his work - unvarnished - I am told) You can look into the Keys of Sol - o - mon and the Ars Goetia on your own.

    "Cathar Texts and Rituals

    Gnosis Archive | Library | Bookstore | Index | Web Lectures | Ecclesia Gnostica | Gnostic Society

    Archive Notes

    The eleventh, twelfth and thirteenth centuries were marked by resurgence in Europe of spiritual movements of clearly Gnostic character. During the late eleventh century a Gnostic religion that had survived orthodox persecution for many centuries in the Byzantine Empire and on the Balkan Peninsula – the Bogomil religion – found its way to the Languedoc region of Southern France and to areas of Northern Italy. There it took root and flourished over the next three centuries as the Cathar religion -- the tradition of the Good and True Christians, the Bons Hommes. (The term "Cathar" was used in medieval times in a derogatory fashion by opponents of the Bons Hommes; Cathars simply called themselves "Good Christians.")

    During these same centuries in the area around the Southern Pyrenees a form of heterodox mysticism took hold, a mysticism that had historical and archetypal roots in the Gnosis and Gnosticism of late antiquity. At precisely this time, and in the same area of Southern France, there came the first flowering of the Troubadour traditions and of the Jewish Gnosticism of Kabbalah. To the south in Spain, the mystical tradition that gave root to a Gnostic school in Islam took form – exemplified by Ibn 'Arabī (1165–1240), the seminal figure in Turkish, Persian and Sufi Gnostic traditions. St. Francis of Assisi (1181–1226) was also deeply influenced by the spirit of this time and this Cathar land.

    The relation of the Bons Hommes with this heterodox flowering of Christian, Jewish and Islamic mystical traditions has long fascinated historians. There is no verifiable answer to the relationship of these several movements, but the milieu in which they arose represents an obvious resurgence of Gnostic tradition: a spirit of Gnosis animated this time and region.

    Unfortunately, the Crusade against the Cathars in the thirteenth century effectively eradicated the tradition and destroyed most of its primary documentary history. Only a few original Cathar texts are preserved. Among the most important surviving writing are a Gospel text from the tradition of John and an authentic liturgical text known as the Cathar Ritual. (Two manuscripts of the Cathar Ritual survive, one in Latin and one in Occitan; the version in Occitan is often referred to as the "Lyon Ritual"). The longest surviving Cathar text is the Book of the Two Principles, a sophisticated and persuasive critique of orthodox theology. We provide all three of these texts below."

    To talk about a discipline as having ended when it caused a widespread change in the behavior of so many men towards women and so many people towards their own spiritual divine spark or part therein, seems incorrect to me. But it surely was necessary for people to say or make sure the Inquisitors thought you were contrite or a converso. You should read the Catalan thread to see how things panned out and understand the Huguenots, Bogomils and other escapees as well. To what extent I can say the Donmeh are escaped Cathars is debateable but the Ataturk thread addresses their impact to the present.

    I see a Plato fragment in the Dag Hammadi scrolls and I know he is part of the Imhotep/Asklepios writings on hermeticism which goes back to the dawn of consciousness. Mircae Eliade, Mark Haeffner and the Arab Encyclopedia by Roshdi Rashad are some of my mainstream academic proofs. I interpret Plato's "first matter" as being what Valentinus called the Father. I say the code spoken by Jesus through parables was Green Languages or Bardic spiritual code for those with proper spiritual insight. These point relate to what we will next quote from the Gnostic Library.

    "According to Valentinus, this secret tradition provides the key that is essential for a complete understanding of Jesus' message. One of his followers put this in the following words: "The scriptures are ambiguous and the truth cannot be extracted from them by those who are ignorant of tradition." (Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:2:1). The Valentinians claimed that the secret teachings are meaningful only to those who are spiritually mature. If a person was not ready to receive them, they seem like nonsense "because their value can be judged only on a spiritual basis" (1 Corinthians 2:14). According to the Valentinian tradition, Paul and the other apostles revealed these teachings only to those who were 'spiritually mature' (1 Corinthians 2:6)


    Valentinians believed that God is incomprehensible and cannot be known directly. Therefore he defies accurate description. {Science is trying to get it still.} He is infinite, without beginning or end and is the ultimate origin of all things. He encompasses all things without being encompassed. Everything including the world lies within the deity and continues to be part of it. The Godhead {Eastern religious usage and Nirvana apply.} manifests itself through a process of self-unfolding in the subsequent multiplicity of being while maintaining its unity.

    Valentinians believed that God is androgynous {Thus the alchemical pursuit is never prejudiced, it understands we are all capable of 'all that is' in any gender or every chakra, etc.}and frequently depicted him as a male-female dyad. {Druidic Dryads} This is related to the notion that God provides the universe with both form and substance. The feminine aspect of the deity is called Silence, Grace and Thought. Silence is God's primordial state of tranquillity and self-awareness She is also the active creative Thought that makes all subsequent states of being (or "Aeons") substantial. The masculine aspect of God is Depth, also called Ineffable and First Father. Depth is the profoundly incomprehensible, all-encompassing aspect of the deity. He is essentially passive, yet when moved to action by his feminine Thought, he gives the universe form. {In Aristotelian thought this was a coming together - a cold and hot dimension creating what we now call the Big Bang. In Nazi lore it was the cosmic Fire and Ice of Horbiger, taught to all Germans under their rule.}

    The Son

    The origin of the universe is described as a process of emanation {The rays from the sun you see in Renaissance paintings.} from the Godhead. The male and female aspects of the Father, acting in conjunction, manifested themselves in the Son. The Son is also often depicted by Valentinians as a male-female dyad. The Son manifests himself in twenty-six spiritual entities or Aeons arranged into male-female pairs. The arrangement and names of the Aeons will not be discussed here. They represent the energies immanent within Son and were seen as part of his personality. Together they constitute the Fullness (pleroma) of the Godhead.

    The Fall

    The Aeons who are manifested by the Son are conceived as having some degree of psychological independence. {Demons even less still.} They lie within God but are separated from him by a Limit or boundary. As a result, they do not know the one who brought them into being. The Aeons sensed that they were incomplete and longed to know their origin."

    And all are "within" though not able to see what is the totality from "without".
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-16-2016 at 08:31 AM.

  3. #3
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    Jan 2015
    Now we get to a more contentious issue as we consider the Cathars and Gnostics were forced into having to debate matters with those who were not intent on understanding but very much interested in control and power. I say the 13th C. scholar drafting the Book of Two Principles from earlier 2nd. C. (perhaps) Gnostic writings is Romanized and lost his understanding of Abraxas or the Oroborous and the Tao which harmonizes the feminine and masculine principles and makes for a truly androgynous at - one - ment. This is the true ONE - ness of "all that is" both within and without. If you question what I say please re-read the quotes from the other eminent sources in the first two posts of this thread. The Giza plateau has this knowledge through the Sphinx (feminine) and Great pyramid of Iesa (masculine) situated at the center (Harmonized) of the Earth's land masses. The Gnostics are thus traceable to at least the builders of the Great Pyramid which the Septuagint (Greek Bible) intimates when it says the family of Jesus and Joseph were "arch-tectons" or architects. This was the hardest thing to confirm from the writings of Conor MacDari along with the fruit of 'direct cognition' which comes from this harmony. This video gets it right about 'direct experience'.

    I further say the very concept of Free Will would say a person can only be 'free' if they are free from BELIEF or subjugation to a BELIEF in a God or other entity of spiritual conscious origin - which the Gnostics certainly say is reality - all things that exist have consciousness.

    "The Book of the Two Principles

    Part 1. On Free Will

    [1] Here Begins the Book of the Two Principles. Since many persons are hampered in rightly understand the truth, to enlighten them, to stimulate those who do have right understanding, and also for the delight of my soul, I have made it my purpose to explain our true faith by evidence from the Holy Scriptures and with eminently suitable arguments, invoking to my efforts the aid of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

    [2] On the Two Principles. To the honor of the Most Holy Father, I wish to begin my discussion concerning the two principles by refuting the belief in one Principle, however much this may contradict well-nigh all religious persons. We may commence as follows: Either there is only one First Principle, or there is more than one. If, indeed, there were one and not more, as the unenlightened say, then, of necessity, He would be either good or evil.. But surely not evil, since then only evil would proceed from Him and not good, as Christ says in the Gospel of the Blessed Matthew: "And the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit." And the Blessed James says in his Epistle: "Doth a fountain send forth out of the same hole sweet and bitter water? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear grapes; or the vine, figs? So neither can the salt water yield sweet."

    [3] On the Goodness of God. Now, our opponents are clear in their assertion that God is good, holy, just, wise, and true; that He is also called pure goodness and is above all praise, as they seek to prove by the following citations and many others of like nature. For Jesus the son of Sirach says: "Glorify the Lord as much as ever you can, for He will yet far exceed, and His magnificence is wonderful. Blessing the Lord, exalt Him as much as you can, for He is above all praise." And David says "Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised; and of His greatness there is no end"; and again, "Great is our Lord, and great is his power; and of His wisdom there is no number." And Paul says to the Romans: "O the depth of the riches of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God! How incomprehensible are His judgments and how unsearchable His ways, and so on. And in the Liber de causis is written, "The first cause is far greater than can be described."

    [4] That God Knows All Things from Eternity. Whence they stoutly affirm that God knows all things from eternity because of the greatness of His wisdom; that all the past, the present, and the future are always before Him and He knows all things before they come to pass, as says Susanna in the Book of Daniel, "O eternal God, who knowest hidden things, who knowest all things before they come to pass." And Jesus, son of Sirach, says, "For all things were known to the Lord God before they were created; so also after they were perfected He beholdeth all things." And the Apostle writes to the Hebrews, "Neither is there any creature invisible in His sight, but all things are naked and open to His eyes.

    [5] On the Goodness, Holiness, and Justice of God. It is clearly demonstrated, moreover, that our Lord God is good, holy, and just, as is said above. For David says: "How good is God to Israel, to them that are of a right heart"; and again, "The Lord is faithful in all His words and holy in all His works"; and again, "The Lord is sweet and righteousness; therefore He will give a law to sinners in the way"; and again, God is a just judge, strong and patient; is He angry every day?" And in the Book of Wisdom it is written, "For so much then as thou art just, Thou orderest all things justly."

    [6] On the Omnipotence of God. For the Lord is called omnipotent, as our opponents avow, and He can do whatsoever pleases Him; nor can anyone resist Him," or say, "Why dost Thou so?" As Ecclesiastes says: For He will do all that pleaseth Him and His word is full of power; neither can any man say to Him: 'Why dost Thou so?' " And David says, "But our God in heaven; He hath done all things whatsoever He would," And in the Apocalypse is written: "Saith the Lord God, who is and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." And again, "Great and wonderful are Thy works, O Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Thy ways, O King of Ages! Who shall not fear Thee, O Lord, and magnify Thy name? For Thou only art holy."

    [7] On the First Proposition, against My Opponents. At this point I take issue with the thesis (sententiam) of those who assert that there is only one First Principle. For I say: Assume that God—who is good, just, holy, wise, righteous, "faithful in all His words, and holy in all His works," who is almighty and knows all things before they come to pass, as I have shown above—created and arrayed His angels as He chose from the beginning through Himself alone and without any apparent extraneous compulsion from anyone; and assume, further, that that He knew the fate of all His angels before they came into being, because within His providence existed all the causes for which those angels must be found wanting in the future and must remain for all time things of evil and demons in His sight, as nearly all our opponents say: then, without doubt, it follows ineluctably that those angels could never remain good, holy, or humble with their Lord, in whose power of necessity all things occurred from eternity, except to the extent to which God himself had knowledge from the beginning. For one who knows fully all things that shall come to pass is powerless, in so far as he is self-consistent, to do anything except that which he himself has known from eternity that he shall do. This I prove."

    My argument on free will and destiny includes the debate on Pre-destination between Augustine the Hippo and Pelagius.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-16-2016 at 12:27 PM.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2015
    There certainly are many dualistic religions with the good and evil debate. Mani was part of the Mesopotamian cultus branch of what I consider to be alchemy or hermetics and his root source goes back to the Sarmoung of Gurdjieff and even further back to the Sidhe. I say the debaters deceive themselves or have not gained the insight through ONE-ness or androgynous (which does not require one to be homosexual, but no doubt this contributes to the prejudices against homosexuality) 'knowing' and direct access to the Logos or Harmonic Convergence. You can certainly be impressed by the energy or knowledge in either of the two forces aligned in dualistic belief systems - against each other. But common psi-sense alone should tell you two forces combined give greater potential than if they are in opposition to each other.

    A man named Lewis Loflin has a positive take on Pelagius and the Original Sin. He spells Manicheanism different than I do and he is addressing a more Empire oriented Gnosticism as I see it. There are many issues one must consider including how people had to protect themselves and their families from heresy trials and later the fires of the Dominican Hounds of Hell when children were sent to the fires singing hymns to the living love of Jesus with their parents. I have many threads and books on the Gnostic Cathars who contrary to what this person says actually brought love and romance back to an equal state between the genders.

    "An examination of Pelagius Why He was Right

    by Lewis Loflin

    Pelagius (c. a. 354-418?) and his Christianity are more in line with the teachings of Jesus while those of Augustine are derived from a Gnostic cult known as Manacheism, a form of Mesopotamian Gnosticism. Augustine would define the Original Sin for the Latin Church, but Pelagius saw through this appalling nonsense. (Gnosticism claims all creation and flesh are corrupt and even sex within marriage was evil.) Like Arius who tried to bring the Christian church in line with Bible, Pelagius too would try to bring the church back to the moral teachings of Jesus. Both lost.

    The whole argument is over the question of original sin a concept invented by Paul and later expanded by St. Augustine in the West. Due to the politics of Augustine, Pelagius was convicted of heresy in the West, but was cleared by the Eastern Churches while Augustine himself was rejected later on.

    Pelagius was accused along with his disciple, Coelestius of the following beliefs:
    1.Adam was created liable to death, and would have died, whether he had sinned or not.
    2.The sin of Adam hurt himself only and not the human race.
    3.Infants at their birth are in the same state as Adam before the fall.
    4.Neither by the death nor fall of Adam does the whole race of man die, nor by the resurrection of Christ rise again.
    5.The Law introduces men into the kingdom of heaven, just in the same way as the Gospel does.
    6.Even before the coming of Christ there were some men sinless.

    Ref. Catholic Encyclopedia.

    Thus he claimed one could achieve grace through ones own free will without the church, its priests, and all its trappings. Many early Christians believed that following Jesus example and living life as He taught was the way to salvation, but this left nothing for the church to do and so this was declared heresy. Like the Arian Heresy, controversy would rage in the church for years and still haunts us today.

    After much theological and political maneuvering, pope Zosimus condemned Pelagius and Augustine's view of sin more or less became the official one. Later, a middle road was sought which would be somewhere between Pelagius and Augustine. John Cassian. (360? - c. 435?) produced what is known as Semi-Pelagianism. What this boils down to is Augustine claims man is corrupt/dead and only the elect are saved; Pelagius claimed all man were alive/good and could be saved; Cassian says were just sick and can be cured.

    While it's true Pelagius was convicted in the West for heresy due to politics and the urgings of Augustine, Pelagius was cleared in the Eastern Churches. (The Catholic Church claimed this was because of his accusers not being able to be at the trial.) To quote: immense impact that Augustine has had in shaping the landscape of Western Christianity; and the divergence of the Augustinian trajectory of theology from the Apostolic and Patristic Tradition has been carefully charted...

    Condemnations of Pelagianism were included in the ecumenical Synod of Ephesus only under Western influence...was actually tried at local councils in the East, the evaluation was positive. Pelagius was not condemned simply on theological grounds. Rather, Pelagius' teaching was seen as a threat... See Pelagius: To Demetrias by Deacon Geoffrey O Riada

    Both Martin Luther and John Calvin (founded Calvinism) would base their theology on Augustine and Paul, rejecting Jesus' moral teachings as irrelevant. This is the basis of most evangelical/fundamentalist Protestant churches. Some claim "Pelagius accuses Augustine and Jerome of being under the influence of Manicheanism. Their doctrine of original sin restored evil to a Manichean status, and their predestination was tantamount to Manichean fatalism."

    Semi-Pelagianism would influence both Celtic Christianity and later may have contributed to Arminianism, which says as follows:
    1.God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. (In other words predestination is said to be conditioned by God's foreknowledge of who would respond to the gospel)
    2.Christ died for all men (not just for the elect), but no one except the believer has remission of sin.
    3.Man can neither of himself nor of his free will do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit.
    4.All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God, but his grace is not irresistible.
    5.Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it is possible for a believer to fall from grace.

    Arminius and his followers claimed they were not Pelagians, and they are certainly not.

    Arminianism is generally characterized by an emphasis on the fatherhood of God, the supreme moral and religious example of Jesus, the essential goodness of man and his infinite capabilities of growth in reason and freedom, the duty of doing something to correct all those conditions whether ignorance or social injustice-that stultified the being of man. Strongly indorse critical Biblical scholarship. Usually denies the existence of the wrath of God and equates God with love.

    This is what's followed by Mainline Protestant Churches today and sounds close to Pelagianism. For example, the evangelical tenets of Arminianism found a forceful expression in the teachings of John Wesley and the Methodists, with its emphasis on the moral responsibility of man, the need of a new birth, and the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit.

    Why Pelagius was Right

    Protestants claim the Bible is the sole authority on God, and considering the hostility of both Protestants and Catholics towards Pelagius, we must turn to the Bible and our God-given reason for answers. Let's take the issues Pelagius confronted one at a time and see if his claims are false based on Scripture.

    Adam was created liable to death, and would have died, whether he had sinned or not. There is nothing in Genesis claiming that Adam was immortal. In 2:17 we have thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. He didn't die of course from eating the fruit, but we find also this in Genesis 3:22, "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever..." Adam was expelled from the Garden for the express purpose he would not be made immortal. It seems God never intended humans to be immortal, which throws any idea of life after death (bodily resurrection) into question. Pelagius was right on this count.

    The sin of Adam hurt himself only and not the human race. Throughout the Jewish Scriptures God says over and over that only the sinner will die, not mothers, fathers, their children, etc. (See Deut. 24:16; 2 Kings 14:6; Ezek. 18:20; Ezek.33:20; etc.) One is held liable for his/her own actions, not that of others. If Adam was the "father" of the human race, we are not responsible for his actions. Thus God said clearly the innocent are not liable for the actions the guilty.

    The fact is Jesus Himself never mentions Adam or any "Fall" in any gospel. The Apostle Paul invented this entire concept of Adam causing humans to lose immortality they never had in the beginning because we are responsible for Adam. Romans 5:12, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:19, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners..." Paul by the way never met Jesus in the flesh. The entire concept of God sacrificing His "Son" an innocent person just to make up for the "crime" of someone else is immoral in itself and contrary to God's words in the Old Testament.

    Even before the coming of Christ there were some men sinless.

    This brings up one of the most thorny issues for Christian dogma in that all of those prior to Jesus are burning in hell for the mere fact they were born before Jesus was ever "conceived." Thus they are punished for something they had no possible power to prevent. The Bible again proves Pelagius was right on this issue."

  5. #5
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    Jan 2015
    I know I promised not to get too far into other debates about things already addressed. But I do have to cover some more of the Empire plagiarization or Hellenizing matters because the sources are slipping into Romanized thought forced upon the world through heresy trials and wars (crusades, manifest destiny or other words like genocidal mania). If I am wrong to suggest that these liars have no bounds and mystical contemplation did not originate where they say - may god strike me dead - right away.

    Oh, I am still here. You might want to read this thread which addresses the most secret Gnostic text (according to many in that academy) and reasons why the next people I quote get upset.

    Robert Tomes is quoted in this book saying the use of words like love, friendship, esteem, admiration and so forth are deceits which if not employed will cause a person to be "thrust' from society. Yes, "smiling faces tell lies, they don't tell the truth" and people get caught up in the lies to the point where sick societies result in communities of less aware people who never actually share. I miss my few days and fewer stays in jail, there I found truer expression was de riguere or the norm. I even discussed it with people who agreed they had been alienated and never understood why deceit was held in such high esteem while allowing their father to beat their mother and worse things. I suppose the link will not be active for long but you get the point, I trust.

    What better way to illustrate the fundamental problem than to quote fundamentalists who say they are supporting contemplation of mystical premises while in fact they also say they expose these various heresies for what they are. The truer heresy is deceit and speaking out of both sides of every orifice is their norm. The Catholic Church has conventions of their best scholars say they support ecumenicism and then the Church says that means all religions should recognize their primacy and other rot which has gotten us to the place and mess we are in. How can we pay Professors in Universities for spreading such rotgut?


    May 8, 2012 (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, [email protected]; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

    The following is excerpted from the book CONTEMPLATIVE MYSTICISM: A POWERFUL ECUMENICAL BOND, which is available from Way of Life Literature. Contemplative mysticism, which originated with Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox monasticism, is permeating every branch of Christianity today, including the Southern Baptist Convention. In this book we document the fact that Catholic mysticism leads inevitably to a broadminded ecumenical philosophy and to the adoption of heresies. For many, this path has led to interfaith dialogue, Buddhism, Hinduism, universalism, pantheism, panentheism, even goddess theology. One chapter is dedicated to exposing the heresies of Richard Foster: “Evangelicalism’s Mystical Sparkplug.” We describe the major contemplative practices, such as centering prayer, visualizing prayer, Jesus Prayer, Lectio Divina, and the labyrinth. We look at the history of Roman Catholic monasticism, beginning with the Desert Fathers and the Church Fathers, and document the heresies associated with it, such as its sacramental gospel, rejection of the Bible as sole authority, veneration of Mary, purgatory, celibacy, asceticism, allegorical interpretation of Scripture, and moral corruption. We examine the errors of contemplative mysticism, such as downplaying the centrality of the Bible, ignoring the fact that multitudes of professing Christians are not born again, exchanging the God of the Bible for a blind idol, ignoring the Bible’s warnings against associating with heresy and paganism, and downplaying the danger of spiritual delusion.

    A major section of the book is entitled “A Biographical Catalog of Contemplative Mystics” which deals with dozens of the current-day contemplative promoters as well as the ancient “saints” and mystics that are being resurrected today, including the following:

    Angela of Foligno, Anthony the Great, Augustine, Benedict of Nursia, Bernard of Clairvaux, Ken Blanchard, Bonaventure, Brother Lawrence, Catherine of Genoa, Catherine of Siena, Larry Crabb, Anthony De Mello, Dominic, Meister Eckhart, Tilden Edwards, James Finely, Richard Foster, Matthew Fox, Frances de Sales, Francis of Assisi, Alan Griffiths, Madame Guyon, Hildegard of Bingen, Ignatius of Loyola, Willigis Jager, John of the Cross, William Johnston, Julian of Norwich, Thomas Keating, Morton Kelsey, Thomas a Kempis, Sue Monk Kidd, Peter Kreeft, John Main, Brennan Manning, Thomas Merton, J.P. Moreland, Henri Nouwen, Basil Pennington, Eugene Peterson, Karl Kahner, Thomas Ryan, William Shannon, Henri Le Saux, Philip St. Roman, David Steindl-Rast, Henry Suso, John Michael Talbot, Johann Tauler, Wayne Teasdale, Pierre Teilhard, Teresa of Avila, Teresa of Lisieux, Majorie Thompson, Phyllis Tickle, Robert Webber, Dallas Willard, and John Yungblut.

    The book contains an extensive index.

    It is available in print and eBook editions from Way of Life Literature.

    DALLAS WILLARD (b. 1935) is a philosophy professor who has had an influence on the emerging church and evangelicalism at large through his writings on contemplative spirituality and the kingdom of God. Brian McLaren has called Willard and Richard Foster “key mentors in the emerging church.”

    Willard is a professor in the philosophy department at the University of Southern California. He has taught at Fuller Theological Seminary and elsewhere."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-19-2016 at 07:14 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Getting back to a more meaningFULL explanation of energy and alchemy we have the first link in the first post saying these words.

    "That is why in the previous lectures we were describing how to transmute, how to reduce elements back to their essence, and to reform them into something pure. What this essentially means is that we take that very power of the Divine Mother and harness it. And we pulverized everything that is within us in order to reform it. To create something new, something pure, something better. In other words, we withdraw the energy of the four elements in order to bring them back to their original source, which is Akash. In the tradition of Alchemy, that force is called Quintessence, which means the fifth power. It is the fifth element. Is is the Kundalini, it is the energy of the Divine Mother.

    In order to do that work, we need a laboratory. Without a laboratory, it is impossible to perform that type of work. We need a place within which we can bring the needed elements, focus on them, pulverize them, purify them, extract the essence, cast aside what is unneeded and unnecessary, and repeat. And repeat. And repeat. The four elements, through the process of heat and pressure, gradually, with patience, become pure. This means that the power of the Divine Mother grows in us. Awakens. Emerges... And instead of being a latent and static power, becomes an active or kinetic power, something that moves, something that acts.

    This illustration represents the laboratory that we need.

    Laboratorum of Heinrich Kunrath

    This illustration was designed by an Alchemist-Kabbalist from the 16th century named Heinrich Kunrath. He was a great Alchemist and a great Kabbalist, a Christian Kabbalist. He was a European, not a Jew, but a Christian, who applied the principles of Kabbalah and Alchemy to his Christian faith. He taught his principals through these type of drawings; he hired artists to create them. They are all beautiful, and there is a series of these types of images. This one in particular is important for our work, because it represents in symbolic form the teachings that only now are being taught publicly in lectures like this. The teachings that he was working with and protected were completely secret. He utilized these images both to communicate to other initiates who were practicing this science, and also to fish for students, to attract souls who were prepared, who worked with the science, which were very few, and even now are very few. The science was not stated explicitly or given explicitly but was given in symbolic form which only the trained could penetrate. Only those who were trained, only those who were given the keys or clues could understand the meanings hidden in these types of drawings.

    This drawing belongs to the Western tradition of Alchemy. If you go to a university or a school where they study Alchemy in a scholarly fashion, as history, they will tell you all kinds of inventive theories about Alchemy, but it is all garbage, because they are not initiated into the tradition of Alchemy. Everything the university and library books, and websites, tell you about Alchemy is just theories invented by people who have no idea what they are talking about; they are just spreading their ideas and theories about Alchemy, but none of that is what Alchemy actually is. Only the ones who have been initiated in the science, who have been brought into the actual tradition and experienced first hand know what Alchemy actually is. There are many famous books, websites and movies that claim to teach Alchemy and that talk about many beautiful and fantastic things, yet they are all wrong. Their theories can be very beautiful, very compelling, and move your heart, but be completely wrong.

    Alchemy is a science to access the power of the Divine Mother Herself, which is a divine power. It is not given to the profane. It is not given to those who simply are curious. Ever. Even now, in these times in which the teachings are being openly revealed, the actual access to the power is still restrained, it is only given by one being: God.

    Only the divine bestows the power of Alchemy on the person. No school, no book, no instructor bestows that power. They may open doors, but to actually become an Alchemist is a power given only by God. It can only be that way. To understand that we need to know what Alchemy means. We need to understand the real meaning. Not the meaning that we see in movies and in popular books, but the actual meaning. So to understand that we will study this drawing."

    Clearly you could be profane and utter profanities like alchemists believe in god or a quote taken out of context following a Christian myth maker to confirm utter "garbage" as they identify it above. Yes, it is OK for an advanced spiritual person to talk and use the word God with others who know what the word means. But they too may be schlepping garbage, and only you can know if you do real study. I agree with many things they say and if they mean Christian in the pre-Romanized sense we are probably not far apart. However, appeals to any of the existing Western religions has left me enraged more often than not, and they are making these vague appeals to those who need power.

    Jung can also be used to gain further insight but be careful of any quotes by those who say they take his full understanding to heart and remember the Dag Hammadi finds were Christianized which actually means it was Roman propaganda, and not fully translated in his era.

    " "A parallel form of alchemy also developed in the East, in which the liberation of the 'true man' from within was sought in forms of Indian yoga and Chinese Taoism....

    "For as science freed itself of religion in an Age of Enlightenment and work in the laboratory finally shed its arcane symbolisms... so the philosophical side of the work forfeit the creative medium - the living soul - of its projections only to become the inanimate preserve of secret societies such as the Rosicrucians....

    "Jung showed that the problem... of the body in general developed in Western alchemy as a compensatory undercurrent to the Christian conflict between the opposites, particularly the moral opposites of good and evil, which ever since the first day of Creation had been rent apart into upper and lower worlds. ... Alchemy represented the search for the divine spark of God's reflection in the darkness of the lower world, under the motto ascribed in antiquity to Hermes Trismegistus; 'as Above, so Below'....

    "As the power of faith upheld by the Church waned, it was left to psychology to uncover the source of this sickness in modern man, a sickness and distress which Jung argued can only be cured through greater knowledge and individual experience....

    "The opus of alchemy was essentially concerned with the union of opposites....

    "The stone, the lumen novum, arising from the conjunction of the reconciled opposites Sol et Luna was personified as the rounded, bisexual Anthropos and proclaimed... the saviour of the macrocosm and counterpart to Christ.... Because the experience of wholeness re-connects the individual with the universal life of the collective unconscious, Jung called the mandala 'a window on eternity', a moment of 'redemption' transcending the ego-personality as the whole transcends the part." 18

    Jung on Active Imagination: "Brief Extract from Analytical Psychology : its Theory and Practice The Tavistock Lectures (1935)"

    On the nature of tao - From Jung's Collected Works 6 Psychological Types (1921): "This psychological attitude essential condition for obtaining the kingdom of heaven, and this in its turn - all rational interpretations notwithstanding - is the central, irrational symbol whence the redeeming effect comes. The Christian symbol merely has a more social character than the related conceptions of the East....

    "According to the central concepts of Taoism, tao is divided into a fundamental pair of opposites, yang and yin. Yang signifies warmth, light, maleness; yin is cold, darkness, femaleness. Yang is also heaven, yin earth. From the yang force arises shen, the celestial portion of the human soul, and from the yin force comes kwei, the earthly part....

    "As a microcosm, man is reconciler of the opposites, Heaven, man, and earth form the three chief elements of the world.... Man is a microcosm uniting the world opposites is the equivalent of an irrational symbol that unites the psychological opposites.... The existence of two mutually antagonistic tendencies, both striving to drag man into extreme attitudes and entangle him in the world, whither on the material or spiritual level, sets him at variance with himself and accordingly demands the existence of a counterweight....

    "The aim of Taoist ethics, then, is to find deliverance from the cosmic tension of opposites by a return to Tao.""

    Unity in Yoga (one definition is union) and joining the yin and yang to get the ONE is a simple way to understanding all religious and philosophical debate. Eliade and Jung had 'words' over this and we have those letters here already.

    When you read the Eastern roots you are less likely to get Roman propaganda, called Christian but not.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-16-2016 at 12:08 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    So the final link from the first post comes to view - and it will be all I can do on this day - though perhaps later tonight I will return for more. I have doubt anyone can follow all that has been said already, and it certainly would take a lot of searching into other threads to grasp the debate or discourse I am covering. This site draws on Vincent Bridges and he is fine. I had occasion to debate him and support Acharya S. offsite in e-mails about a decade ago and his stuff on the Green Languages is worthwhile. I consider him a far better source than a person selling any religion. He is right to address the knowledge as pre-flood but do not think he is talking about Noah or anything like that myth. He knows better and I know it, from our discourses.

    "What Zosimus' fable seems to be telling us, then, is this:

    In the dim pre-history of mankind, a god-like race of beings inter-bred with humanity and taught them creative and generative forms of cultural wisdom. The first human master of this science codified the canon of its knowledge (wrote the book on it we might say) from which the children of gods and men built an advanced civilization. As we know from the Bible, this civilization was wiped out by the great flood. But its wisdom survived to start a new pattern of civilization in Egypt, the Black Land of the wise Osiris.

    Zosimus is suggesting therefore that alchemy is at the core of an ancient pre-deluge science, one that was revealed to mankind through sexual contact with semi-divine entities. Before we dismiss this out of hand as some sort of religious paraphilia, let's look at what is possibly the earliest surviving alchemical manuscript, "Isis the Prophetess to Her Son Horus" found in the Codex Marcianus, a medieval (11th century) collection of Greek fragments. This work seems to be a unique blend of Hebrew mysticism and Egyptian mythology that could only have come from Alexandria early in the first century of the Christian Era.

    Isis tells Horus that while he was away fighting and defeating Set, she was in Hermopolis studying angelic magick and alchemy. She relates that "after a certain passing of the kairoi and the necessary movement of the heavenly sphere, it happened that one of the angels who dwelt in the first firmament saw me from above. . ." The angel, a being of the lower realm between the earth and the moon, is enflamed by passion, but can't answer her questions about alchemy. He bargains on another encounter by offering to bring a higher angel who will tell her everything she wants to know. The first angel shows Isis the magickal sign of the higher angel, a bowl of shining water and a moon sign that resembles the emblem of the moon-god Khonsu of Thebes.

    At noon the next day, the angel returns with the higher angel, here called Amnael, who also finds Isis desirable and is willing to trade information for sex. He reveals the mystery of his sign and then swears her to a great oath. In this oath, we find echoes of the great mystery and the keys to its explication. "I conjure you in the name of Fire, of Water, of Air, and of the Earth; I conjure you in the name of the Height of Heaven and the Depths of Earth's Underworld; I conjure you in the name of Hermes and Anubis, the howling of Kerkoros and the guardian dragon; I conjure you in the name of the boat and its ferryman, Acharontos; and I conjure you in the name of the three necessities and the whip and the sword."

    After this oath, Isis is never to reveal the secret to anyone but her son, Horus, her closest friend. The knowledge will make them one, as the knowledge has now made Isis and the angel one.

    And then a curious thing occurs. When the mystery is revealed, it seems strangely flat, as if something is left unsaid in the answer. Horus is told to watch the peasant, who may or may not have been the boatman Acharontos, and then is given a lecture on "as you sow, so shall you reap." Horus is told to realize "that this is the whole creation and the whole process of coming into being, and know that a man is only able to produce a man, and a lion a lion, and a dog a dog, and if something happens contrary to nature, then it is a miracle and cannot continue to exist, because nature enjoys nature and only nature overcomes nature."

    Isis goes on to relate that she will now give the secret of preparing certain "sands." She says that "one must stay with existing nature and the matter one has in hand in order to prepare things. Just as I said before, wheat creates wheat, a man begets a man and thus gold will harvest gold, like produces like. Now I have manifested the mystery to you."

    The instruction then passes to hands-on lab work in melting and preparing metals such as quicksilver, copper, lead and of course gold. At the end of this lengthy preparation, Isis exclaims: "Now realize the mystery, my son, the drug, the elixir of the widow."

    © 1999 Vincent Bridges ALL RIGHTS RESERVED"

    That reference to the widow is a Masonic token or code.

    Here is Heraclitus writing about the Logos which you will also find in Buddhism, around the time that the Hebrew Bible was cobbled together. This Logos is in the Bible where you see "In the beginning was the word." All of energy and matter made from it, is built upon harmonic forces (words are harmonic especially when people like Pythagoras who is credited with the Octaves, use them) according to modern String Theory. If Gravitational Wave Theory is the best explanation it will be even more true - metaphysics is winning and people like Aristotle were able to think - despite having made many errors.

    "All things come out of the One and the One out of all things. ... I see nothing but Becoming. Be not deceived! It is the fault of your limited outlook and not the fault of the essence of things if you believe that you see firm land anywhere in the ocean of Becoming and Passing. You need names for things, just as if they had a rigid permanence, but the very river in which you bathe a second time is no longer the same one which you entered before. (Heraclitus, 500 B.C.)"
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-16-2016 at 12:22 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Drilling further into the San Graal website I wonder if Vincent was associated with Jim Honey of the San Graal book store near Fergus, Ontario and David Hatcher Childress's Adventures Unlimited. Jim introduced me to Childress via e-mail, and he was the president of the Canadian group of Adventures. I met him shortly after Vincent gave the following speech in my hometown - it was about five years later when I was having e-mail discourse with Bridges and Acharya S..

    What we have here is in line with the Rose Lines of Grail lore as you see it in the Da Vinci Code and all of us are circling this particular drain or wormhole to be sure. Check out the Polar Wander Path in the sidereal charts of the heavens and inside the Great pyramid according to MacDari and a math professor named Smith at Hobart College. Also know the precessional cycle he refers to is in the Mayan Long Count.

    "Presentation by Vincent Bridges
    At the Subtle Technologies Conference
    Sunday April 19th 1998, Toronto, Canada

    Introduction - The meaning of the Evidence

    In this article, I will present mathematical and geometric, historical and astronomical evidence of a past understanding of a unified field of knowledge. The evidence suggests that this understanding has formed a core part of the secret teachings of many of history's wisdom traditions and secret societies.

    What this means is that Mind has a way to inhabit matter, through us. Evolution is a co-creative endeavor, with nature providing the basic building blocks and the tools with which grow beyond yourselves. Contact with Mind, the experience of gnosis, can be accomplished in many ways, but any contact leaves residue in the form of an increased understanding of the nature of reality.

    Our evidence is composed of such residue, anonymous, eternal and sometimes poignant in its abstract simplicity. Form is the envelope of pulsations, and words are the residue of insight. But the Throne of Osiris is the fixed point on which all cycles of change and flux rest.

    I am One that Transforms into Two.
    I am Two that transforms into Four.
    I am Four that transforms into Eight.
    After This, I am One again.


    Heron of Alexandria, {See Hero and a machine here which one of the members is trying to re-create.} a 1st century AD Greek mathematician, defined a gnomon as "any figure which, when added to an original figure, leaves the resultant figure similar to the original." This is the symbol of growth by accretion, or evolution from a seed point. From the ground plan of a Hindu temple to the Throne of Osiris, this principle of gnomic expansion, or growth by accumulative increase, has been used throughout history to represent the unfoldment of space/time.

    In its basic form, the Throne of Osiris symbolizing the solar power on earth, which is constant through growth and change, the gnomon can be represented by a square of two growing into a square of four. (That is, a square with each side divided into 2 equal sections, for a total of four squares, expanding into a square with four equal divisions of each side length; twelve squares in the outer square, four in the inner, making a grand total of sixteen squares of equal size.) In many western magickal traditions, the altar is described as a double cube. The basic gnomon 2/4 square can be seen as an unfolded, or unpacked into 2D, representation of a double cube.

    (To see this, simply imagine the squares as cubes, then stack the outer twelve on the inner four to create two cubes of four.) Packing or stacking these cubes creates the irrational generative roots of volume, the square root of three, the diagonal of the volume of a cube, and the square root of five, the diagonal of the volume of a double cube.

    Therefore packing our basic gnomon into another dimension, from 2D to 3D, generates the irrational roots for volume. From the simple gnomon of two expanding into four, (which is also 1 into three times four) we can also unpack the basic length, or 2D, oriented generative irrationals, the square root of two and Phi.

    If we think of our inner square as four squares, then we can define four square root of two lengths by taking the diagonal of each square. The relationship of this length to the side length of the outer square is that of 1/Phi squared to 1. (We can see this best by adding another square, with sides the same length as the first, on a 90 degree tilt parallel to the square root of two length in the inner circle. This gives us an eight-sided figure.) Thus our basic gnomon generates a nest of irrational numbers, indefinable causes, which produce definite, structural effects. In this sense, the eight-sided gnomon is indeed the essence of gnosis, since it describes a kind of knowing about that which can be never be known precisely, the irrational numbers.

    Traditionally symbolized by an eight-pointed star, pointing the vertices of the gnomic octagon, knowledge of this Gnostic geometry ranges from the ogoad/ennead of ancient Egypt, through Alexandrian mathematics and mysticism to the Islamic scholars and renaissance hermetic humanists at the dawn of modern science. Echoes, such as the double cube altar or the chess board floor of Freemasonry, survive in western occult traditions, usually without an understanding of why. Islam, however, retained the use of this figure as a key component in its calligraphic sacred geometry.

    By Michael Schneider from "A Beginner's Guide To Constructing The Universe"

    The concept of One and Eight, unity divided into an ordered, centropic diversity, is achieved through a configuration of transcendental proportions. The supra-rational divisions of unity within a square whose side length and area is 1 define three unique proportions of three terms each. These statements of logos, division of unity into mean and extreme, are composed of eight incommensurables and unity itself.

    This trinity of trinities expresses the fusion of temporal harmony and spatial geometry. The arithmetic proportion (1/3:2/3:1) gives us the Pythagorean musical scale; the harmonic proportion (square root of two - 1: 2 - square root of two:1) defines the curves and volumes of the grail cup; the geometric proportion (1/Phi squared:1/Phi:1) creates the nest of Phi ratios that unites all wave fronts by addition and multiplication. Therefore, the One and the Eight symbolizes the interaction of music, mass and magick, or wave, particle and mind.

    The Labyrinth {AKA Maze on Crete}

    From our basic gnomon, the square within a square, we can define the nine points of the One and Eight by marking the center point and the corners of the expanding squares. This gives us an X pattern similar to the Cretan Labrys, and, like that design, can be used to locate us within the wheel of year. Also, again like the Labrys, this pattern can be used to create a labyrinth.

    The labyrinth is an example of what Gurdjieff called objective magick, a coherent symbol construct capable of working directly on the unconscious mind. Its origins are mysterious, although the maze family of symbols have been traced back over 3500 years in places as diverse as Peru, Arizona, Iceland, Crete, India, Egypt and Sumatra. This symbolic continuity is perhaps our strongest proof of its spiritual coherence and magickal effectiveness.

    The classic seven-turn labyrinth evolves directly from the nine points of our basic gnomon. The geometrical view of the One and the Eight, given above, defines a unity, which remains the same, and eight incommensurables, which are roots of generative functions or processes. To understand how the labyrinth works, we must look at our One and Eight from the point of view of DNA triggers.

    The Ennead, One and Eight expressed as Nine, is common to both Gurdjieff and the ancient Egyptians, and symbolizes the unfoldment of the cosmos and the projection of the DNA's programming. Evolution can be seen as a series of inter-dependent imprint triggers leading to a galactic level of "human" consciousness. Four of these triggers are automatically fired, in most sentient beings, by experiences in the course of life; four related triggers are consciously fired; and the spirit trigger is randomly fired, just to keep things interesting.

    We think of DNA as some kind of internal intelligence that knows how to build all the different types of cells needed to grow and run your body. The human genome project is mapping out this sort of process, but here we are looking at the activity of DNA in a completely different way. Dr. Timothy Leary, in his masterpiece, Neuro-Politics, outlines a scheme of DNA imprint projection, (similar in process to that which causes a duck to consider the first living and moving thing it sees after birth as its mother) that interprets behavior as an interactive evolutionary imperative. Developmental stages are triggered, first by environmental necessity, then by conscious intent, leading to a free will based integration of body, mind and consciousness on a truly cosmic scale.

    Using a simplified version of this concept, we can think of the primary imprint triggers as: 1) Security, 2) Territory, 3) Intellect, and 4) Social. Security imprinting in humans, as in ducks, is concerned with mother and mothering. To feel secure, this deep and strong process of being fed and loved must take place. It constellates into an imprint pattern, for good or ill, around 18 months."

    One of the problems with Bridges is seen on his website. His association with Drunvalo and others definitely detracts from a clear message.
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-17-2016 at 07:27 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    To transform your self and contribute more energy in balance to the Self or oversoul you can simply meditate on beauty and nature. Feel the forces and eschew the social digressions or disinfotainment you have been bombarded with, it can be more difficult than it sounds or as easy as you want. Removing the 'want' or need is all important while also doing the opposite and exercising Will. This balance between obsessing desire and a passion for losing the self in the Self is not just going blank and losing thoughts in the 'busy mind'. It can start with that but it must include something more, if I am correct. For me, I get busy with Purpose and find reward in giving my all while questioning the ego self. But if you truly find Peace and Beauty then you are probably already 'getting it'.

    In the book The Wonder Child they recommend re-capturing the innocence of a child 'within". I can see it in animals and children as they smile or the tail wags, but that is not all Beauty allows, there are depths of connections a child has which we train our kids to avoid and even fear. Trusting the intuition you had when you were born is a large part of it - if I am right. As silly as it may sound - "don't worry, be happy", but that is just good for the mundane issues which can become possessions after you think you own them and then find they own you. I love to lose myself in the eyes of a person I share a lot with. I had a difficulty with doing this too much; and I can easily fool myself. But I rationalize this as just superficial nonsense and laugh at my stupidity most often. There are people who have more innate beauty than I do, because I do get too involved in intellect. But when I feel the rush of creating something different it fills me with awe, and I love it!

    In a review of Max Jammer's book on Einstein and his religion by a noted ecumenical theologian we find these great words of inspiration. "Banesh Hoffmann, who calls Einstein a creator and rebel, rightly summarizes Einstein's philosophy in the following words, "The essence of Einstein's profundity lay in his simplicity and the essence of his science lay in his artistry-his phenomenal sense of beauty."

    In my readings of Jung I find we have much in common. I visualize forms and probably I should pick up a brush and paint more often, like he did.

    We have Jung's Red Book linked here, I hope it is still a working link. The whole world has many mandalas because nature and it's forces operate everywhere regardless of what you call your religion and how many gods you worship while saying you only worship one. And the truth is, you probably worship just money or power, unless you actually have gained wisdom or gnosis, despite all the priestly interpreters.

    "Mandalas are sacred, esoteric diagrams that are present in almost all world religions. They’re often meant to represent the entire cosmos, or the role of divinity in the world. As such, they can be incredible aids to meditation and self-discovery: Either by contemplating them, or even drawing or painting them yourself. The psychologist Carl Jung was a connoisseur of mandalas—not only writing about them, but painting them, as well, as we see in the image below from his famous Red Book. Jung, who was fascinated by alchemy and Gnosticism, felt that mandalas could lead the way to psychological wholeness.

    Below, check out nine incredible mandalas drawn from some of the world’s religious traditions—alchemy, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and more. (The first mandala is even by Jung himself.) Whether you’re a believer or not, you’ll certainly be impressed with the ornate beauty of these artistic creations."
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-17-2016 at 12:59 PM. Reason: add content

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    I will agree Gnosticism became a religion at some point, and like the Cathars who I think included adepts of great insight and based their culture on Occamy or alchemy I say the true Gnostic knew God better than other Christians and included the family of Yeshua or the title a member of his family often deserved (Iesa). These family members like Solomon and Melchizedek probably had an element of 'direct cognition' or access to Gnosis more than most priesthoods or adepts. The Cathars gave their priests and priestesses names which indicate that very idea - perfecti and parfaits. I will not agree they were perfect but they were perfectly oriented to a perfecting potential. Just because they wanted or were aligned and oriented to perfection does not make them perfect even if by comparison they were far more so, than others.

    There is a debate on whether or not alchemy is religious, according to the historyofalchemy website. I have been told this before but I say a true alchemist does no projecting of himself upon nature - or anthropomorphing. This same site seems to think Avicenna is an alchemist and he certainly was interested in the things alchemists or hermeticists were involved with. If that was all it took there would be millions of alchemists. There would be alchemists who did not know what alchemy is, and there would be all those Rosy and Golden boys or Masons who would like to be called alchemists today. I doubt there would be many who would have wanted the title or label not long ago. But this same debate occurs with Gnostics and as to whether or not you are a true Christian if you follow Rome and the Gospels Rome wrote rather than what Yeshua and his family studied.


    So was alchemy done through magic, or some sort of divine intervention?

    Or was it just imitating some natural process.. something akin to science?

    We have philosophers and alchemists who debated on these topics for centuries and the full discourse would cover books, so let’s distill this all down a little:

    First we had people that would argue whether transmutation is possible at all. Examples on both sides would be given, quoting Avicenna, Aristotle, etc.

    On one side it would be argued that alchemy is an art, and like art it imitates nature, but the gold created is not really gold. Even if you can’t tell the difference, and it passes all the tests. It still wouldn’t have the healing effects (for example) that people thought gold had.

    On the other hand, people would give examples of transmutations carried out by humans all the time, with the help of nature. A farmer planting seeds to raise crops. People burning ferns to ash (and I guess add sand) to create glass. Those are some examples given where humans are using nature in a way to transmute one thing into another.

    Alchemists would often (but not always) -depending on the time period- try to stay clear of the reputation of being a sorcerer. They would insist that in a lab they are replicating the natural process in which the earth transmutates different metals into higher ones.

    In this way the furnace and sulphur and mercury were thought to be a replication of what happens in nature.

    This was argued back and forth.

    But then we also have people in the camp that insist that gold can only be created with god’s help. We see this a lot. So -in a way- that’s at the very least theurgy. The recipe itself can be gotten from theosophy – Edward Kelley got a recipe from angels, for example.

    We saw in Zosimos’ episode that higher beings help, so it’s just a matter of astronomy to determine whether it’s God, or demons that are helping.

    To summarize the debate in magic vs. nature:

    It was debated whether transmutation was possible at all, whether it was possible to create something real or only an imitation.

    And then it was debated whether the transmutation was possible without God’s help and will.

    And again, there were always those who knowingly made fake gold and tried to sell it as something else.

    But even leaving charlatans out of this for a minute, the genuine belief and arguments for or against alchemy varied over the centuries.

    Was the gold created genuine, or an imitation?

    Was alchemy dabbling with evil forces – or done by the pious, with the will of God?

    Or were people imitating nature and therefore simply perfecting a science?

    The answers are more various than the number of alchemists we’ll probably ever cover on this show, but interesting questions to ask about each person we discuss in our show.

    Throughout the span of alchemy these questions were at the center of the debate of its merits, and I think spending some time on the subject should clarify how alchemy was viewed through it’s history."

    When will people learn to think and ask questions rather than fool-owe gurus and BELIEF?
    Last edited by R_Baird; 03-17-2016 at 11:58 PM.

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